Is it time? Another ILLEGAL shoots cop

If we are to follow Rob's logic the Border Patrol had no business trying to interfer with the illegal aliens mentioned in Clems post.

After all they are from Mexico and just wanted to get here for a better life and at least some people believe that's fine even if it is breaking the laws of our country.

I find it hard to believe anarchy is the answer to the immigration problems.
 
I didn't say that anarchy is the solution. I just said that "illegal" means nothing on it's own. I agree that we need immigration laws but I think we are targeting the wrong thing. As long as there are jobs for them they will keep coming back.
 
Instead of blaming the immigrants, you should blame the corporations who employ them and the corrupt politicians who let all this happen.
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That statement is an example of what the professor has aready pointed out

I blame them all, as do most pepole who have left the "He started it" mentality behind

Just don't complain when you have to pay $10 for a single orange..
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This is another area where age would benefit your perception

They are not doing the jobs American wont do, they are doing the jobs my friends and I gladly did when we were kids
I grew up picking produce for Clemons
At 14 I was a laborer on a construction site, during school year we would mow lawns for 2 to $5 and did a damn good job at a time when minimum wage was less than $3 an hour
The price of a piece of fruit was much less back then than it is today even accounting for inflation

We need to kick the illegals out and our lazy kids off the couch
 
They are not doing the jobs American wont do, they are doing the jobs my friends and I gladly did when we were kids
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It would still drive prices up. They have to pay the minimum wage to kids who work for them. Illegals usually work for much less than that. The orange company will have to pay more to produce the oranges and this cost will be passed on to the consumer.
 
Yeah, WE THE PEOPLE need to take back our country. Just when will you be leaving, KenpoProfessor?

Funny how we are quick to challenge laws we don't like and attribute such antics as being foundational paradigms on which our country was founded by our founding fathers, but how quickly we reject illegal aliens coming in to OUR LAND and taking OUR RESOURCES.

It seems to me that we are quite the fickle crowd that is very selective in our memories and selective in deciding which past behaviors were OK and which were only OK for us, but not for others.

I just love the attached graphic. It says so much.
 

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So what? The fact that what they're doing is illegal means nothing to me. The existence of a law doesn't prove anything. Laws are not always a good thing.
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Ahh, the liberal kool-ade is kicking in.

Instead of blaming the immigrants
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An immigrant is a person who comes here through legal means, these people are criminals (.)

Most of the immigrants are just trying to make their lives better and they shouldn't be punished for it
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And the guy who just robbed you at gunpoint is only trying to make his life better, and should not be punished for it. :rolleyes:
 
I notice that everyone (including me) seems to think it is appropriate to prosecute US citizens for committing white collar crime. But when we talk about applying the law to people crossing our borders illegally then these same people cry foul. I have also noticed that people in areas that are directly effected by high populations of illegals get off their high horse and start asking for the laws against illegals to be enforced. Noting like have your property tax double, or hospitals close, or having you local crime rate soar to bring people back to reality.

About a year ago some of the people in a very up-scale San Diego neighborhood were talking about how these illegal immigrants just wanted jobs and our society was just discriminating against them because they are Hispanic. Then a groups of illegals erected tent cities in the back areas close to these rich neighborhoods. Wow, what a sight to see grown people cry. Now they are begging the police to remove these tent cities due to the crime they attract. Be careful what you wish for!
 
They have to pay the minimum wage to kids who work for them. Illegals usually work for much less than that. The orange company will have to pay more to produce the oranges and this cost will be passed on to the consumer.
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You also obviously have no experience in the produce fields
You are not paid an hourly wage you are paid by the bushel picked, some of those pickers are making much more than minimum wage, despite what you are told from uninformed sources
If it would automatically drive prices up why did it not do so when I was a kid picking and the prices were less than they are now
Remember I gave you that reference in my original post

If paying minimum wage is a concern then have a separate wage for under 18 workers
The so-so workers will wallow at minimum while the good workers will get raises, same as now

And by the way
I have never worked for minimum wage or the equivalent in my life , except for when I worked for "mainstream" companies
I only did that during the school year because I could make twice as much in the summer doing "the jobs that American wouldn't do"
 
It seems to me that we are quite the fickle crowd that is very selective in our memories and selective in deciding which past behaviors were OK and which were only OK for us, but not for others.
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I am not real fickle. It is clear we were unfair to the American Indians. We broke every treaty we made...not them. We even had a forced death march while moving them to the reservations. We just plain massacred them at Wounded Knee....that is factual history. Now if you want to try to correct history then you can start by giving your land or house you presently live in back to whichever Indian tribe that occupied your area. Otherwise, using that as an argument against todays illegal issues just doesn't work.

The orange company will have to pay more to produce the oranges and this cost will be passed on to the consumer.
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The real cost that is passed on to the consumer is the cost of free medical/social services cost and increased crime rate. So called low cost illegal labor is not really low cost.
 
I
It seems like Tucson is so much closer to the border, yet people always speak of Phoenix when it comes to crime in AZ.
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Phoenix is a bigger town, therefore you hear about things in Phoenix more often.

Denver has had a cop killed by an illegal. It was outside of a party. The man was asked to leave...nothing else. He wasn't forced. He wasn't ticketed or arrested or fined. He was simply asked to leave. He returned later and shot the cop, who was acting as security, right through the head from behind. He retreated to Mexico and though the prosecution wanted to seek the death penalty, they had to "succumb" to Mexican law and agree to only seek life in prison for them to send him back here and face trial.

Another cop here in Denver was chased during his off-duty time through the city by multiple vehicles and multiple illegals at speeds upwards of 105 mph. They rammed his car and when the marked cars showed up, the illegals rammed them too. Evidence points to these guys being part of an illegal drug and weapon ring.

There are dozens and probably hundreds of incidents I could cite which include illegals committing crimes against Americans here in the Front Range within the last 3 years. I can think of about 40 right off the top of my head.

This situation is deteriorating from an already worst case scenario very quickly as time goes on.
 
I don't see how the mistreatment (understatement) of the *original* native Americans has anything to do with how the current and present America deals with its illegal immigrants.

I could give the funny Latin names to the multiple logical fallacies in post #26, but, well....
 
Otherwise, using that as an argument against todays illegal issues just doesn't work.
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Naw madmag, not an argument. You misunderstood. I simply pointed out that we choose disregard laws or fight laws we don't like and base such fights on the fights of the founding fathers, but then get all high and mighty about government laws that we think are important even though had such laws been in place a few hundred years ago, we would be the illegals.

Just like you noted, we are very two faced when it comes to dealing with others who we perceive as not being US. We took on Manifest Destiny and dsiplaced Native Americans in our pursuit of a better life, but when somebody encroaches on us, we cry foul.
 
Just like you noted, we are very two faced when it comes to dealing with others who we perceive as not being US. We took on Manifest Destiny and displaced Native Americans in our pursuit of a better life, but when somebody encroaches on us, we cry foul.
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No argument (from me anyway), legitimate point.

But we cannot support the world...no matter how much we want to.
 
Double Naught, I don't plan on leaving here anytime soon. I've lived in my country of ancestry, decided I liked it here much better.

This country was built on the violence of man, just like every other country in the world throughout history (Remember how the Roman Empire was built?). The winners write the history books. Just so happens that the people who won this land were the meanest, nastiest, sadistic SOBs in the valley, ergo, the Indians lost (and they're laughing at us now with the Casinos), and we turned the land into something we wanted.

So just where do you think this country would be without it's history, if we left the American West alone? Would it be someplace you want to live?

Remember, much of the land in the Southwest was settled by the whiteman because we fought like hell for it with the Indians, and anyone and anything else there. Though Mexico and Spain had claimed the land, they didn't want it because the Indians were too violent. Once we got that little problem taken care of, then they wanted it back.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
 
Oh for christ's sake, take any group you care to name and members of that group will have committed every crime in the book. It hardly means that illegals are cop killers.
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The difference is that a scumbag US citizen is our scumbag. We have plenty of those and we don't need other country's scumbags.
 
This link did not work for me, however I find the number too high to be believable. The prison population in the US is about 16% hispanic. Most illegal aliens are hispanic, therefore that 30% number seems bogus. Such a glaring error casts a poor light on the whole post
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http://www.azcorrections.gov/adc/reports/CAG/CAGJul07.pdf Look at ethnic breakdown - Hispanic, 38.4% incarcerated in AZ, July last available numbers. Specific listing of "criminal aliens", 4893, out of a population of 33839, for a rough percentage of 14.4% illegal invaders. This is state prison, not Fed. Fed take MORE illegals than we do, due to the nature of thier crime. I would say the number could very well be correct.
 
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