Is carrying 2 guns overkill?
- Thread starter Corpsman
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Playboy Penguin, your chosen nickname has something in common with your argument.
Neither is going to fly.
In your unprovoked attack on me earlier in this thread, you wrote:
Let's deconstruct that piece by piece. "A glaring lack of details or evidence always seem (sic) to be present in his stories." ??? If you were familiar with my work, you would know that I do nonfiction articles and books, and the only material I produce that could be called "stories" would be the Ayoob Files feature in each issue of American Handgunner magazine. These are narrative reconstructions of documented shooting incidents based on the recollections of survivors, witnesses, and investigators. The one in the current issue is typical: it contains the name of the shooter, the name of the deceased, the location of the shooting, the date (and, almost to the minute, the time) of the incident, and details down to the grain weight of the fatal bullets. "Glaring lack of details or evidence"???
You can't find anything to explain opinions or recommendations? Sounds like a reading comprehension issue or a profound lack of research on the topic you've discussed.
And, please, let's dispense with your pretense that this is about examples of the use of the second gun to arm another trusted, competent person. That was addressed for you on the second page of this thread, in Post #36, by Corpsman. The logic is obvious to anyone with the most rudimentary grasp of tactics/defense issues.
Penguin, on Page 7 of this thread in your post #36 you write, "I would never hand a loaded gun to a stranger. Surely he (Ayoob) has basis for claiming this is the right thing to do."
Your statement is a classic straw man argument, and untruthful to its core. Anyone can review this thread and see that no one suggested handing a loaded gun to a stranger, and I have never suggested that anywhere at any time. The concept of "backup gun to arm backup person" is transferring the weapon to someone you know is competent to use it, who is does not have their own weapon at the moment.
Your reasoning there would get you flunked out of a junior high school debate class. What were you thinking when you applied it in THIS forum, which is read by professionals?
Penguin, you need to get away from your trademark comic books for a little while, and perhaps refresh with a little adult education. Basic courses in research, critical thinking, and debate would be useful, and certainly an Introduction to Ethics class. If you can find a place with a pre-law or criminal justice curriculum, take a course that includes Standards of Proof. Here, you've attacked my credibility with zero to back up your allegations, and did so while hiding behind Internet anonymity at that. Yet you imply (Page 7 of this thread, post #148) that when YOUR credibility was attacked after you claimed to have been a police officer and military officer, it was sufficient for you to post what you called "...very cute pix of a young (you) in (your) uniform." :barf: When I stopped laughing, I had to wonder, "Is there a costume store next door to his comic book store?"
Get a grip, Penguin. Stay on topic. Learn to research before you write, and to think before you pull the trigger on a post. It will make you a better person, and one day you may even get past having to make unprovoked ad hominem attacks under an anonymous name.
Neither is going to fly.
In your unprovoked attack on me earlier in this thread, you wrote:
Let's deconstruct that piece by piece. "A glaring lack of details or evidence always seem (sic) to be present in his stories." ??? If you were familiar with my work, you would know that I do nonfiction articles and books, and the only material I produce that could be called "stories" would be the Ayoob Files feature in each issue of American Handgunner magazine. These are narrative reconstructions of documented shooting incidents based on the recollections of survivors, witnesses, and investigators. The one in the current issue is typical: it contains the name of the shooter, the name of the deceased, the location of the shooting, the date (and, almost to the minute, the time) of the incident, and details down to the grain weight of the fatal bullets. "Glaring lack of details or evidence"???
You can't find anything to explain opinions or recommendations? Sounds like a reading comprehension issue or a profound lack of research on the topic you've discussed.
And, please, let's dispense with your pretense that this is about examples of the use of the second gun to arm another trusted, competent person. That was addressed for you on the second page of this thread, in Post #36, by Corpsman. The logic is obvious to anyone with the most rudimentary grasp of tactics/defense issues.
Penguin, on Page 7 of this thread in your post #36 you write, "I would never hand a loaded gun to a stranger. Surely he (Ayoob) has basis for claiming this is the right thing to do."
Your statement is a classic straw man argument, and untruthful to its core. Anyone can review this thread and see that no one suggested handing a loaded gun to a stranger, and I have never suggested that anywhere at any time. The concept of "backup gun to arm backup person" is transferring the weapon to someone you know is competent to use it, who is does not have their own weapon at the moment.
Your reasoning there would get you flunked out of a junior high school debate class. What were you thinking when you applied it in THIS forum, which is read by professionals?
Penguin, you need to get away from your trademark comic books for a little while, and perhaps refresh with a little adult education. Basic courses in research, critical thinking, and debate would be useful, and certainly an Introduction to Ethics class. If you can find a place with a pre-law or criminal justice curriculum, take a course that includes Standards of Proof. Here, you've attacked my credibility with zero to back up your allegations, and did so while hiding behind Internet anonymity at that. Yet you imply (Page 7 of this thread, post #148) that when YOUR credibility was attacked after you claimed to have been a police officer and military officer, it was sufficient for you to post what you called "...very cute pix of a young (you) in (your) uniform." :barf: When I stopped laughing, I had to wonder, "Is there a costume store next door to his comic book store?"
Get a grip, Penguin. Stay on topic. Learn to research before you write, and to think before you pull the trigger on a post. It will make you a better person, and one day you may even get past having to make unprovoked ad hominem attacks under an anonymous name.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I was wondering when you would finally weigh in.
Hi Mas.
You never did stop by to shoot my .500 Max, and .475 Linebaugh. I'm sure I could take you for a trip up to Jack Huntingtons, and, we'd have LOTS of fun.
Also, I sent you Chucks contact information. He's getting better, but, the Glock in the spine is a REALLY bad injury, and, you were right, center of back carry is NOT a good idea. You never did contact him.
We need folks like you in the industry, even if we don't agree with you on somethings....
Keep up the great work...
By the way:
After looking at the FBI shoot outs, and the penetration problems they had, what do you think of the idea of using ball ammo in 9mm, or even 45 ACP?
Seems more penetration is needed then the current SD ammo gives us...
If you all missed it: Mas has said he wants to shoot with me, but, when offered the chance, declined. Kind of affects his credibility with me, as well as PBP...
You never did stop by to shoot my .500 Max, and .475 Linebaugh. I'm sure I could take you for a trip up to Jack Huntingtons, and, we'd have LOTS of fun.
Also, I sent you Chucks contact information. He's getting better, but, the Glock in the spine is a REALLY bad injury, and, you were right, center of back carry is NOT a good idea. You never did contact him.
Now that's funny. Almost as funny as this:
We need folks like you in the industry, even if we don't agree with you on somethings....
Keep up the great work...
By the way:
After looking at the FBI shoot outs, and the penetration problems they had, what do you think of the idea of using ball ammo in 9mm, or even 45 ACP?
Seems more penetration is needed then the current SD ammo gives us...
If you all missed it: Mas has said he wants to shoot with me, but, when offered the chance, declined. Kind of affects his credibility with me, as well as PBP...
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I've been reading Mas's stuff for the last hour. It goes from very funny, in particular where he tries to claim it's American Handgunner, and their comments that have made Glocks so popular, to another article suggesting a manual safety on a Glock for LEO's...
His stories on actual cases are very entertaining...
His stories on actual cases are very entertaining...
OrlandoRecon
Inactive
Is carrying 2 guns overkill?
Hell No !!!
Hell No !!!
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BoulderTroll
Inactive
I think on patrol carrying two guns is a very smart thing to do. Off duty, I don't see a reason to.
supergas452M
Moderator
Is carrying two guns overkill?
Well, since you feel that way and a lot of others do also and have made their points and opinions, I offer my response...
Do I always carry two guns? Actually, rarely. However, I absolutely recognize why doing so would in no way be considered overkill but in fact be a way to keep from being killed. More power to ya if you want to carry two or more.
Most of the time I feel OK carrying just one with extra ammo and a knife.
Well, since you feel that way and a lot of others do also and have made their points and opinions, I offer my response...
Do I always carry two guns? Actually, rarely. However, I absolutely recognize why doing so would in no way be considered overkill but in fact be a way to keep from being killed. More power to ya if you want to carry two or more.
Most of the time I feel OK carrying just one with extra ammo and a knife.
Can't help but notice that those who make accusations against Mas seem to be abrasive in the majority of their posts, and one would have to consider that being the center of attention is what drives their participation in the forum--more so than offering a contribution.
Some are so determined, that they resort to the most miniscule detail that even those involved couldn't agree on.
I don't claim to be perfect by any means. If my posts get to the point where I, on a regular basis, can only pick others apart without offering a contribution, then I hope some one lets me know.
The Ayoob Files in American HG is my favorie feature and I always look forward to it. Without it, I wouldn't subscribe.
I wish Mas would get off his butt
and create another Ayoob Files--the Book.
To keep with the main spirit of the thread: NO! carrying two guns is a wise choice for more than one reason, as some have pointed out.
As far as being a violent crime vicitm, I reject the idea that you use over all population to determine YOUR chances, since certain areas of most cities have a much higher crime rate, and your chances aren't the same as for those who live there.
However, your chances of being a victim are about the same as for many others who were victimized even though the odds said it wouldn't happen to them.
Some are so determined, that they resort to the most miniscule detail that even those involved couldn't agree on.
I don't claim to be perfect by any means. If my posts get to the point where I, on a regular basis, can only pick others apart without offering a contribution, then I hope some one lets me know.
The Ayoob Files in American HG is my favorie feature and I always look forward to it. Without it, I wouldn't subscribe.
I wish Mas would get off his butt
and create another Ayoob Files--the Book.To keep with the main spirit of the thread: NO! carrying two guns is a wise choice for more than one reason, as some have pointed out.
As far as being a violent crime vicitm, I reject the idea that you use over all population to determine YOUR chances, since certain areas of most cities have a much higher crime rate, and your chances aren't the same as for those who live there.
However, your chances of being a victim are about the same as for many others who were victimized even though the odds said it wouldn't happen to them.
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Playboypenguin
Moderator
Actually, I had lost this thread until tonight due to the erratic behavior of the board on my end lately. I have had to go back and search all the threads I have posted in and then try to find where I left off in them. I am sure I have missed a lot of discussion.
As for my position on Mas, I said my peace and he got to defend his position. There was nothing more to really say that would not have just been bickering. I respect his work and enjoy his writings. I still believe it is mostly fiction, but that is my own right to feel that way. After all, it is pretty bad when a greenhorn like myself has many more times the combat experience than the "proposed expert."
Besides, as more than one person put it to me in PM, "arguing his followers is like arguing with Glock-o-philes about the G19 not being God's gift to firearms."
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Playboypenguin
Moderator
I cannot prove a negative. I cannot prove his accounts never happened. That is an unrealistic requirement.
I did send Mas Ayoob and apology though, in case he felt I was attacking him and not the idea and the experience behind it. I did not call him a liar. I questioned his reasoning and stated I do not think his articles of evidence are reliable or significant accounts. He is not saying it happened to him anyway. He is saying he read about it happening. It does not matter if he is right if the source information is wrong.
But like I said, I did send him an apology in case he feels like he is being attacked. That is not my intent. Anyone that writes a published article or makes a public post on these boards is subject to scrutiny. I am sure he understands that more than most people.
In reality, I was actually quite honored that he responded to my post at all.
I would have just left it at that but some people on the boards have a lot of free time and like to follow people around and try to cause conflict.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Asking for proof of an assertion is nowhere near the same thing as making a statement that requires proof of any kind. I always love how you immediately jump to attacking others when they question your information.
My information is personal experience, which you are called into question by saying it may or may not have happened. I said it happened. Because it did happen. That would be the same as me saying I think that you never a LEO or an officer in the military. That would be the same as calling you a liar.
But now you accuse me of stalking you and making trouble. I simply check my previous posts, like I always do and look to see when a post has been added to. I dont stalk you PBP. Youre not worth the time to me.
But now you accuse me of stalking you and making trouble. I simply check my previous posts, like I always do and look to see when a post has been added to. I dont stalk you PBP. Youre not worth the time to me.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
You could say that if you wanted to...in fact many people did. Until I posted pics of me in uniform, pics of me at my duty stations, copies of pics from my basic training year book, etc.
See, I made a claim and then backed it up. You might want to try that sometime.
PS: I have no problem with personal experience being cited, but you seem to not be able to understand in many of your posts that a single exception does not disprove all other accounts to the contrary.
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