Is America headed for another Revolution?

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The difference between society today and during the previous reolution is the media. Back then people were informed on politics by town meetings, publications and word of mouth. Today most average Americans are lead by the TV via the media. Most think that by watching the news they are informed on the truth. The bottom line is the freedom that so many died for has been ignored, neglected, and flat out abused. The only way we would see a true revolution is if the government threatened to take our televisions away.
We would not win a revolution unless the guard and reserve were on our side. The advanced weapons technology and recruitment of other NATO countries would tilt the scales that were otherwise even during the last revolution.
I don't mean to sound glum but if it was America against the government we would win. Unfortunatly most of America would follow the CNN god and join the government.

With all this in mind what do we do?
If someone from the government came to take my guns would I fight for them and leave my children fatherless. I don't know.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
Guttsmoke:

Congratulations...you've managed to insult a few hundred thousand American men and women who served honorably, died or were wounded in Vietnam.

The question I would ask is, just how politically aware should an 18 or 19 year old man be? I know in my case (I was 20 when I stepped off a Flying Tigers charter at Ton Son Nhut) the following applied: First, I was a Southerner and was not inclined to shirk national service; second, I was politically naive; third, I was too stupid to be scared of much (although I soon learned the meaning of REAL fear); fourth, I liked anything that went boom or fired something downrange; fifth, I enjoyed a good fight; finally, I didn't know anything about the history of Vietnam or our nation's involvement in selling it out after WWII, etc. In short, I (like the vast majority of the young grunts and junior officers who served there) were not in a position to weigh the considerable moral issues involved.

So tell us about your military service...did you serve a combat tour? If not, enlighten us on your (brilliant, I'm sure) period of military service. I know we'll all be impressed.
 
Sentimental hog wash!

Talk is so cheap. Firstly, wars are won by removing the leaders from positions of power. Those who are sent into battle are mere pawns in the grand scheme of things. Whether it be foreign troops brought in, organized street gangs, or National Guardsman (the most unlikely), these are the sacrificial lambs.

The war we are fighting (or will fight) is one that involves being patient. More patient than those that are attempting to intimidate us into premature action. They are in fact the ones that cannot stand the time that it is taking to win. They grow more and more impatient each day that passes. And with each day they become more and more careless.

Just hang onto your hats. Each of these unconstitutional laws and regulations that infringe our Rights must be IGNORED!!! Chipping away at them gets our opponents nowhere so long as we stand together and ignore them. Every gun that is turned in voluntarily, every piece of red tape that is followed, every piece of this blatantly vile manipulation of human behavior that is followed, allows our opposition more ground on the battlefield. Ignore it.

While you act out your part in this nationwide civil disobedience offensive, prepare yourself, defend yourself, and educate yourself. If you have two firearms, buy two more, if you have 1,000 rounds of ammunition, buy 2,000 rounds. If your wife or significant other isn't prepared as of yet, get them prepared as well.

It is unlikely that a shot will ever be fired in this "war", but one can only imagine to what lengths those who so desparately want our freedoms will go to obtain them. Including entirely and completely manipulating public opinion through the media, setting shocking examples (like Waco, Ruby Ridge), and grasping every available opportunity that can be mustered (like Y2K) to tighten their grip on us.

Stand together and be patient. The dragon that has been blowing flames in the air will soon come out of its cave.
 
I doubt that this country will see an armed revolution the likes of the Civil War again. The vast majority of Americans are too comfortable and have too much to lose by going against the tides of the recent government encroachment.

I chafe at the recent infringements upon my rights by an overreaching Federal government that is headed by a liar, cheat, thief, and scoundrel. It burns my blood that MY elected officials act as though they are rulers and not servants.

Just my two cents, but I believe a big part of the problem has come about by the 24-7 news media coverage. You know it takes a whole lot of c--p happening to fill up those minutes and hours. Take a moment and go back to the time when CNN did not bring you "up to the minute" coverage. I dare say we are ruled as much by the news personalities as we are by our elected officials.

There also seems to be this flawed notion amongst the "cognoscienti" that what goes on in DC, NYC, LA is good for the rest of the nation. I think these folks are in an ivory tower. Take a good hard look at the "real" America. It's the small towns, corner drug stores, local bars, and grass-roots communities, not the sprawling concrete jungles.

Sorry if I rambled, just venting the spleen.
 
No I don't think so. The incrementalism of sheeple conversion will cause our freedoms to die witha wimper. There may be a few uprisings of stalwarts but they will be crushed in a Waco style event and be branded as crazies by the media.
 
Hey Guttsmoke:
You must be one tuff all American. I have one question.
If you have nothing to loose then doesn't that mean you have nothing to fight for either?
The fact that one has a family and children should drive them to defend their future.

The problem here is do we see the current threats to the constitution as a threat to our families future.

I don't mean to come down on you Gutt but your reason for your patriotism sounds more like a reason for depression or suicide. If the only people who actually fight for a cause are those who have nothing to loose then we are in deep trouble. Actually, the USA would not exist if that were true.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
There are four boxes for change:
soap, ballot, jury and ammo.

We are _NOT_ at the fourth box yet. We've barely made any use of the third. Now is the time for LAWSUITS.

We must make challenges in the courts. Lots of them, by clearly law-abiding reasonable citizens. Come at it from both ends: big frontal suits (NYC has revoked the 2nd), and little nit-picky ones (1934 Group's in-process suit to remove CLEO signoff requirements for Class III transfers). Stop relying on criminal suits, and start demanding formal in-court justification (which will NOT appear) for disarming responsible, law-abiding people when the founding fathers and US law is CLEAR that normal people should be permitted arms.

Promote suits over:
- "Assault weapons" and machinegun bans violate militia member's (that's everyone!) right to military small arms.
- NYC licensing requirements have revoked the RKBA. Even licensed state residents cannot carry in part of the state.
- "Assault weapon" ban is cosmetic, not functional, thus absolutely not justified.
- Licensing itself: a right delayed is a right denied.
and many others.

Don't talk about shooting when we haven't seriously tried SUING.
 
Its not necessary to know whether a person served in Vietnam is order to understand what he thinks about the situation. What is the rationale ? Do you think that LBJ or Robert Mc Namara served a tour there? And they were the ones responsible for most of it.
Guttsmoke can criticize Vietnam all he wants to. His point seems to be that a lot of people went there knowing that it was wrong but went anyway. And some are excusing their actions because of age etc.
I went to Vietnam in 1967 as a 30 yr old career Army Officer who thought that our presence there necessary in the same manner as saving South Korea.The reason most of the participants of my era resent our Vietnam experience is because of the almost total apathy of the folks back home and the fact that a lot of men were spit upon and assaulted in airports etc. Couple this with the fact that ALL of the American lives lost and all of the casualties of all types and all of the broken families were wasted when our government gave the Republic of Vietnam to the north. Our prisoners of war were left to rot.It was known then as it is now that pilots were shipped to Russia to be tortured into giving up secrets of our air tactics and capabilities.
The only Americans who can be proud of our Vietnam connection are those who went and did their duty and those at home who kept the faith.
And you all know who you are.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
How do you eat an elephant?


One bite at a time.


Our rights are stripped away in similar fashion..."not with a bang, but a wimper."
 
Just my thoughts...I think Brett Bellmore has the idea...this will be something that the feds do not expect...remember, not only congress makes laws...the unelected, unaccountable executive agencies make policy which has the force of law...IRS, DEA, Treasury, BATF, Federal Reserve, etc...Somebody will flex their muscles at the wrong place and wrong time, trying to make brownie points and get a high service rating or promotion, and it will blow up in their faces, just like U235...then it becomes a fad...just my thoughts, no advocacy here ;)

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Yankee Doodle
 
Hmmm 1900 some odd members here..
Take a personal poll and tell me how many of those members you think actually DID something to fight for our rights today?

Ok fine, then tell me how many of the people who talk tough about "prying things from their fingers" actually did something to fight for our rights today.

Well..ok, then tell me how many times you've looked at your screen and had an opportunity to do something to fight for our rights, but only offered commetary, but did not actually do anything about it.

Now be honest with yourself.
You may find the conclusion in the answers to these three questions.

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Same Shot, Different day
 
Good thread! I personally,after seeing how a dictatorship works while in the army overseas(Taiwan under Gemo Chang kAI shek), would have to fight and probably die before I would give up my guns to Federales. History shows that whenever a people are disarmed, the next step is extermination. Stalinist Soviet Union(Klinton I believe is a pure Stalinist) killed 100million unarmed people. Who in their right mind would want to live in this country if all our guns were confiscated? Would the patriots win a war against USUN forces? Only if the police and US military supported the patriots. Like others have stated, without US police and military on the side of the patriots it would be very hard to win. Forget most of the sheeple. They will sit on the sidelines anyway and would probably lean towards Federales position. A conferation of Mountain states and southern states is possible,but again the patriots must have the support of the majority of police and military of America. I think the catalist to rebellion would be a call in of all guns by Federales who would count on the support of US military and police and ones sheeple neighbors snitching on gun owners. The Federales cannot count on Nato or other foreign troops alone. I dont know how or when,but i believe the Regime in DC is getting ready for something big. I am sure i will be trashed for this comment. Hey, maybe the stock markes will tank and that might even get the sheeple to turn on Big Comrade!
 
yes.
look for bill to declare marshall law if one lightbulb goes out on y2k.
he'll do it for the children.
will people quietly go into the night?
i don't think so.
 
I wouldn't worry about clinton unilateraly deciding to stay in office due to some national emergency. If he does that he'll be dragged out in chains.

If the feds decide to go door to door and confiscate firearms, there will be a lot of deaths on both sides. What we need in a situation like that is a setup where pro gun owners by the millions get together with their weaponry and physically defend someone who openly defies the government with the express intent of not complying with a given gun confiscation law. Do you think the government will get out the army and kill all those who are defending that person? Will deliberatly provoking a standoff with the government get people to realize how serious gun owners are about all this?
 
The federal government is irrelevant! This statement was in an report I received from Stratfor the other day. The report point out how we are in an era that has the government looking for something to do. There is no Great Depression or serious external threat to give the federal government a purpose in the eyes of most Americans. I wish the text was online somewhere so I could refer you all to it, but it made a lot of sense. It goes into how the current candidates are searching for an issue to set them apart. But right now the bulk of the American people are apathetic. The conclusion of the report was that we will likely stay in this apathetic situation until there is an issue that most people see a need for the government to "fix".

On the encouraging side, the public recoiled in horror from socialized health care.

I think we're already fighting the revolution, but contrary to how some of us feel, we are not the revolutionaries, "they" are. We have lost some battles, but we are still in control. If we weren't, our rights would already be gone and we'd be in the "reeducation" camps right now.

They have been chipping away since the '30s. But we still control most things. If we continue to sit back and day dream about armed revolution, (I'm even considering writing a techno thriller on the subject, it is fun to think about) we'll continue to lose.

They war is being fought, not with bullets or assasinations, but with words and ideas. Some people on TFL are homeschoolers, which is a way of fighting back. How many are members of their local school boards or are involved in city or county government? This is the front line. How do you think the feds are imposing their will? They are buying it with grants and threats of with holding of funds from our lesser entities. Why does this work? Because our state and local governments are dependent on these sources of funding. A Republican, Richard Nixon, really gave the feds the means to control this when he started revenue sharing. I have a good friend who's on the city council and was just furious when the people who approve modifications to bring public buildings up to ADA standards made them install an elevator, rather then move some offices to the first floor in City Hall. I aksed him after he vented on me, why they just didn't refuse to comply? "What could they do, send troops, occupy the city?" I asked. "No, they'll just cut off our money." he replied. This really opened up my eyes. We need to start at the local level and wean ourselves from the federal nipple. Those of us here on TFL are the ones who can do that. Probably none of us wants to get involved on a national level, but all of us can spare a little time to get involved at the local level.

Where are our lawyers? I know that there are people in the legal profession who think as we do, we may even find an attorney or two as a TFL member. Why aren't we suing HCI, VPC and some politicians in Texas for conspiring to violate our rights under the Second Ammendment? There is a federal court district that has ruled that the Second Ammendment is an individual right. HCI, VPC and some of these politicians have made no secret of the fact that they want to disarm us totally. So who is filing suit to get our rights back and put them on the defensive. Is it the fact that they don't have money like big tobacco that is keeping our lawyers from doing this? We pay for a lot of lawsuits for the other side through the federally funded legal aid societies. Perhaps the poor in some of these areas can sue for their Second Ammendment rights. Make our tax money work for us.

You guys who want to start a revolution forget that we are still the establishment, we're in retreat in some areas, but we've got to start returning fire. "They" are the revolutionaries our goal should be to stop their assault and turn things back.

The sheeple aren't going to care until it's their ox that's being gored. Lets reintroduce our youth to the shooting sports, lets get on the school boards and take control of our schools away from the leftists. We are still the majority, lets start acting like it. We need to start small at the local areas, because that's where we're losing. They've got two or so generations before they educate free thinking out, that is how they'll win.
Jeff
 
A big smooch for Jeff! Right on the button!

I'm involved in water rights in my area....the State has their designs and the large city to my south has theirs....stop these people on any issue and you weaken them overall and strengthen/awaken "our kind" on the 2nd A.
If we break apathy we can win.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
An absolutely wonderful thread.......and I have to agree with ya all on almost every point.......lets get the grass roots thing going........fubsy.
 
I will tell you of a example in the fallof 1997 when we tried to prevent the County Commissioners Of Frederick County ,Md. from voting in favor of the Federal Rivers Program which basically turns the rivers of america over to Federal Government and its proxy the UN. Well ,guess what, we packed Winchester Hall with opposition to this insidius program. You can guess the outcome. The commistioners all voted for a river navigator who will actually control th Hecke Potomac River. All the feds have to do is promise some money to these towns or counties along the river and the politicos will sell their soul to the corporate state . We had people who had evidence galore about what the US UN has in mind with their Biosphere plans to make most of the Us a Un national Park. I have seen the offical Un maps of what the United Nations wants as far as uninhabited land in America where NO PEOPLE WILL BE ALLOWED. We had a meeting with a representative of our Congressman from the sixth district, a so called conservative. We had some good speakers who have studied the UN's plans for seizure of much of now inhabited American areas. People like Joa`n Vian, Linda Liotta and other have studied this Un land grab. We were ignored by Congrssman Bartlett. People , our politicos ,except for a few like Ron Paul Helen Chenowith(sp), Bob Barr, and a few more, have sold us down the river to the corporate state. Dont call me a nut case. THe government is in our face; no doubt about it. Lawyers, ha! They are corporate lawyers running this dog and pony show for the US Govt. Yah, there will be a real fight sooner or later. Win or lose,free men and women cannot abide this corporate state much longer. We need a patriots trial of all these traitors in our three branches of government and we could also throw in state and local officials also. Just think. Irs and Federal Reserve Banksters tried for crimes against the working people of America.Heck, the stealing of our wealth has been going on since the creation of this Federal Reserve System. I think roughly 3% of the American people really understand what this corporate state has done to the United States Of America; our real country. Just my 2 cents worth of phoney Federal reserve "money"
 
Gezzus H. Krist! Jeff? I didn't think there were intelligent people on this BBS ;-) Yea, Dennis, that includes you Har! Har! even with your destructive third party, divisive, loosing stand ;-) (don't take offense this is meant as a tonge in cheek comment...OK?)

Still, even with the internet allowing a minimal voice to the mainstream, the liberal left, hollywood fag, anti social, anti freedom, anti gun, anti family and anti wholesome hollywood crooks are going to continue to try and debase American society to their vision of evil....... we are not going advance all that is good and wholesome WITHOUT regaining control over the hearts and minds of America...........We need to defeat the power brokers of the MEDIA. If we want what is good, we need to control the media so as to promote all what we think is good for this society. (this may mean all of us like minded individuals get together and put our money towards buying controlling shares of the various media outlets so we can direct our views towards America).

What does that mean? We need to get together as fighters for all that is good and wholesome for this society and America and somehow gain controling shares of media outlets like NBC, CBS, CNN, ABC, etc. The people who are in control of these media outlets are NOT out for the greater good of society. They are out to spread a destructive message towards the traditional rights, freedoms and morality of Americans.

If you want to understand the media and its attempt to control the "path" of our society, you need only look at the recent ruling that makes it against the law to discriminate against homosexuals in the Boy Scouts of America. As the New Jewrsy court has ruled, you MUST accept this as normal within your Boyscout troop. HEY! This is good and a symbol and what America stands for.........RIGHT?

YEEEA!! QUEERS, HOMOSEXUALS, PEDOPHILES BYSEXUALS,CRIMINALS, all should be allowed to EDUCATE and TEACH your Boyscout Troop.

YEA! Let's hear it for diversity, tolerance! It's good for our children! RIGHT?

This path of tolerance is the wrong path. I think there should be tolerance, lots of tolerance towards people different because of skin color, ethnicity, religion, etc, but I, personally, draw the line at homosexuality being accepted as normal.

[This message has been edited by Frank Haertlein (edited August 05, 1999).]
 
As a member of this board for a few months, this is what I see:

Frank is focused on the Media.

Ivan is focused on the UN and the New World Order.

Dennis has his sights on the third party candidate.

Jeff and others are calling for more local action.

Jim March fights his front on CCW in Califonia.

Rob avidly defends the LEO profession while recognizing the individual rights enumerated by the 2nd.

DC contributes research and knowledge to all involved in the fight.

Coinneach (sp :)) and others practice peaceful Civil Disobedience.

And ALL are fighting to retain and fully restore the right to choose and experience the consequences of our choices.

It's a beautiful tapistry.

The fight has many fronts, and it is my honor and privilege to extend to you all my warmest thanks for your valiant efforts in facing off the one you have chosen to fight.

Sincerely,

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..."

http://www.countdown9199.com


[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited August 05, 1999).]
 
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