Is 6 Shots enough?

I'm always carrying 7+1 plus a reload, and I hope 0 shots are enough :)




This is what I always try to pitch to everyone: a semi-auto has a much higher tendency to go from a 13+1, 15+1, what have you to a 0+1 from a double feed.

Revolver's don't double feed much ;)
 
I am not accusing the OP in any manner, but this question can be used to imply laws and restrictions as well.

Is six enough. Never. :D

My concern is that this data will be evaluated in the light of Second Amendment issues.
1) The 2nd Amendment as concerned with self defense (non-LE, non-MIL situations).
2) What is the consensus from the self defense community on what is sufficient and can that play into capacity restrictions.

The contrasting question should be posed:
Are there handguns with ammunition capacities that are too high for self defense?

Like I said, I don't feel the OP is going down that street, but that doesn't mean this discussion will not be viewed in that light by someone. So, answer honestly and in full context.

Is six enough. Under attack there is never to much.
 
Do you want to accept the risk that there will be two or more assailants without mitigating it? The risk is well over 50%.
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I sure would like a citation for this stat. Over half of all assaults are multiple attackers?
 
Posted by seeker_two: How many times do you plan to miss?
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A much better question is, how many times do you expect to miss.

Here's one good way to get something of an idea:

Posted by Crow Hunter: Take a FOF training class....
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Of course, the expected value is not a good measurement for risk management; you'll have to have some idea of the statistical distribution.

Even that gives just part of the story. How many hits does it take to stop the assailant?

That will depend upon what part of the body that each hit would have damaged in a real encounter. That's hard to tell, but that FoF training will make it crystal clear that one cannot rely on "accuracy" as described at the range to hit that moving target in time to defend oneself, and that in some encounters several shots will be needed to score a hit.

Once one then does some research and finds that a shot from a "large, powerful" revolver that does not hit anything vital is nowhere near as effective than a 9MM bullet that does so, one begins to have the information to make an informed decision.

Until then it matters not at all how "comfortable" one feels with what he or she carries.

And even then, as Glenn E. Meyer says, all you can do is play the odds.

But back to Crow Hunter's advice: get some training. FoF training would be best, but before trying that, one should strongly consider going to some place like Rangemaster for some good high performance pistol shooting.

I won't speak for him, but I think that Tom Givens will advise carrying something with more capacity.
 
Posted by Buzzcook: I sure would like a citation for this stat [(The risk is well over 50% that there will be two or more assailants)]. Over half of all assaults are multiple attackers?
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I read that in some old FBI stats, and those are notoriously incomplete because reporting is voluntary, but I cannot put my electronic hands on them now.

In the recent sample of 63 incidents cited in Post #27, 75% of the attacks involved more than one attacker.

Put yourself in a criminal's shoes. Do you want help, if you can get it? Someone to cover your six? Someone to distract the victim? Someone to help keep you from being overpowered? Someone to drive? Someone to help search the house and help carry the loot out to the car?
 
If everyone is going base their arguments on statistics, perhaps the statistical chance of actually needing to "clear leather" should be figured in.

My personal opinion: six is plenty. I carry my snubby with confidence.
 
I always laugh at the 9 mil crowd who thinks they need 16+ rounds and 2 reloads. If you run into that much trouble and don't have a long gun near by you already failed.
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80% of the time I carry a J frame in .38 special, but when I move up in size I carry an auto. If I can fit 15 rounds in the same size package as a mid to full size revolver only holding 6, why would I limit myself to 6 when I can just as easily carry the larger capacity auto. It has nothing to do with me thinking I need that many rounds to get the job done.
 
I think we all realize there are too many variables for the question to be answered in a way that we can all agree upon.

Do you like to kick over a row of Harleys at Sturgis?
Do you trek through grizzly country with a .22?
Are you a LEO?
Are you in a gang?
Do you panic easily?
Are you a good shot?

When Billy Mummy ran out of caps, he threw his gun at The Blob and ran away. That's my plan.
 
Is six enough

For me it is. Others who carry as part of their job, probably not. I never anticipate trouble, that's why six is plenty for me. I'll duck and run, and try shoving my quick reloader into cylinder comes the time.
 
I think we all realize there are too many variables for the question to be answered in a way that we can all agree upon.
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Yep. Different guns for different purposes. In the woods, I carry a different gun than I carry in town.... Not a LEO or a soldier, so no need for high cap protection. If you 'know' you are going into harms way ... makes a difference on how much ammo and armament you carry.... so all depends!
 
Is six, ect....

Yeah, you're right. Different senarios, different weapons. P.S. Most of my pistols are .45 colt, or sometimes .45 Schofield. I love those short, fat rounds for revolvers.
 
But, since trained LEOs only hit who they are ainming at 7 yards during a fire fight 14% of the time, you need 7 shots minimum
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Define "trained". A lot of cops are not proficient at shooting or making decisions. Certainly, some are very good at it. But I'm going to say it's less than 50%. Remember the guy that was killed by two cops recently when he was on his porch armed only with a garden hose? I wonder how many shots that took?
 
Posted by rclark: Not a LEO or a soldier, so no need for high cap protection.
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I thought the same thing for years. Then I availed myself of a little training.

If you 'know' you are going into harms way....
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Let's turn that around. How do you know that you're not?

I always feel better with my S&W Airweight Centennial with me than with nothing, though the chances of having to use it are less than remote. One time last summer when I left home without a firearm, I had a scary encounter. Fortunately, a Blackthorn stick and a Kimber Pepper Blaster combined with a resolute scowl to deter.

I know that I have a better margin of protection when I carry a compact M&P 9. I load with ten. Hope that's enough.

I have had to present handguns in serious confrontations three times over a lot of years. One was a .32 S&W Long with six shots. One was an eight shot S&W 9MM. One was a .45 Colt loaded with five rounds. They were what I had.

Turned out to be enough each time. Might not have, however.

Details: home invasions, desperate and impaired lone perps. No shots fired.
 
Life's a -itch, and for the most part, unless you are an off duty or undercover LEO, six should be enough, especially if they're .45's ...Mleake's comment, "Practice, and only one assailant.. says volumes.

Me?...I carry a J-frame Smith for the most part, with an occasional swing with Sig's P290 8-shot 9 mm. I practice, extensively, on controlled pairs to the thoracic region from any range practicable in the real world in about 2 seconds from the holster.

Assess your threat area, work, play, live, and make a decision. For me, the weight of an "N" frame S&W, day in and day out would be excessive...and I don't carry speed loaders either...but my J-frame, M-36, with it's five shots of regular speed .38 special is enough. My wife carries a M-637 with +P ammo and we feel well armed in our area. (And no, if you're wondering, the internal lock has not presented a problem, nor have we been hit by lightning!)

Best Regards, Rod (Here are the pics...)

P1010268.jpg
Sig P290, 9 mm; on duty when I'm giving my S&W M-36 a rest.

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Wife's M-637, albeit with BBQ grips...it now wears Crimson Trace Lasers and resides in her purse and night stand daily.

3inchChiefsSpecial.jpg
My S&W M-36, as I carry it...enuf if you're proficient.
 
A couple of posters have used the cliched arguments I always seem to encounter on this topic:

1) If you have higher capacity, you'll be more likely to use spray and pray, and probably won't develop marksmanship;

and

2) You better hope your opponents give you time to use that capacity; this isn't Hollywood.

To those posters, and their head-nodding friends, I would counter thus:

1) Most of the better shooters I know from IDPA, GSSF, etc, and most of the instructors I know, for that matter, usually carry a mid to high capacity semi-auto of reputable make. Some carry 1911's, and so have 8 or 8+1. Few routinely carry weapons with 6 or less, except as BUGs or "all I can carry based on external restrictions" guns. Quite frankly, at my IDPA club, I'm not particularly fast, but I normally am the 1st or 2nd place guy with regard to accuracy. (Usually more than 20 shooters on a given night.)

I usually carry 8 or 10 of .45, or 17 of 9mm, not counting a spare magazine, and I'm pretty accurate.

2) I'm not fast, compared to the guys I shoot with, but at GSSF I could take 6 8" plates at 11 yards in around 5 seconds from low ready. If I'm shooting at only one or two targets, I can go through 6 rounds in a couple seconds.

Just how fast do I need to be?

Meanwhile, I also train at moving while shooting; I train at martial arts; if I can grab one BG, or just move around him, to put him between me and his buddies, I've trained to do just that.

IE, I'm reasonably fast, and I train to employ tactics that buy time or screw up the other guys' shots.

Those tactics are less likely to be effective if I have run out of ammo.
 
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Don't get into the what if game. Is 6 enough? Is 9 enough? Is 14 enough? Most people that carry a CCW gun will never draw it and those that do likely won't fire it. For most of us, a gun will act as a visual deterrent.

With that said, I read that most "civilian" gun fights involve 5 or fewer shots at distances of less than 7 yards. In my opinion, it is more about shot placement, and making the first shot count, rather than spraying lead at your target.

Bottom line is, if you are comfortable and accurate with your gun of choice, it doesn't matter if you have 6 rounds or 14. If you are comfortable with the gun, that should be your primary concern.
 
When conditions allow, I wear full leather (boots, gloves, jacket, sometimes even pants) and a full-face helmet on a motorcycle. Road rash sucks. Odds are I won't crash. In the unlikely, but still possible case of an accident, I'd rather have more leather than less, and I'd like to have some protection for my face.

Similarly, if conditions allow me to carry a reliable sidearm that has more capacity, I'd rather have it - even if the odds of needing that capacity aren't particularly high.
 
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