Is 6 Shots enough?
- Thread starter M1Rifle30-06
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Zhillsauditor
New member
I think its that crappy ruger you are shooting the 44 mags from that is the problem. Get a S&W, man.
“Is 6 Shots enough? …I'm also a firm believer [in] Murphy's Law. “ [M1Rifle30-06]
Me too.
But most gunfights are over before the revolver cylinder is empty. However…
Since experiencing a first shot failure (dud) in a very accurate 10-shot 45ACP SW99, I am now carrying a S&W 22-4, 6-shot 45ACP moon clip revolver. Problem is the same problem with the 44 Magnum S&W 29 snubbie – its heavy, and some (well most) days my back wants a lighter load…so now I mostly carry a lightweight 44 spl S&W 396NG, 5-shots and speed-loaders, which unlike moon clips are fraught with Murphy’s Law…in a standard revolver, on reload a case or two might stick and not want to eject, then the speed-loader can come apart or jam on the cylinder…all the while you must take your eyes off the target…Murphy’s Law rules when it comes to reloading a standard revolver…this is when you really need a BUG, and is the major reason most cops carry hi-cap semis. Hard to argue against more rounds, especially with multiple assailants.
Moon clips are very fast, allow for fast ejection and fast reload, without taking your eyes off the target.
More important is…will your body be able to tolerate a heavy daily carry?
And yes, with a 6-shot primary you should always carry a BUG…ankle carry works well, especially with a small semi.
Check you 6.
Me too.
But most gunfights are over before the revolver cylinder is empty. However…
Since experiencing a first shot failure (dud) in a very accurate 10-shot 45ACP SW99, I am now carrying a S&W 22-4, 6-shot 45ACP moon clip revolver. Problem is the same problem with the 44 Magnum S&W 29 snubbie – its heavy, and some (well most) days my back wants a lighter load…so now I mostly carry a lightweight 44 spl S&W 396NG, 5-shots and speed-loaders, which unlike moon clips are fraught with Murphy’s Law…in a standard revolver, on reload a case or two might stick and not want to eject, then the speed-loader can come apart or jam on the cylinder…all the while you must take your eyes off the target…Murphy’s Law rules when it comes to reloading a standard revolver…this is when you really need a BUG, and is the major reason most cops carry hi-cap semis. Hard to argue against more rounds, especially with multiple assailants.
Moon clips are very fast, allow for fast ejection and fast reload, without taking your eyes off the target.
More important is…will your body be able to tolerate a heavy daily carry?
And yes, with a 6-shot primary you should always carry a BUG…ankle carry works well, especially with a small semi.
Check you 6.
Enough for what?
I shot part of a bowling pin match last Sunday with a 4 inch Model 28 in 357.
Best 2 out of three. The first bank six shots was plenty, shot high the first shot, then cleaned the table.
Second bank required some reloads, not because 6 shoots wasnt enough, but because I missed with those other shots.
If I would have paid attention to my fundamentals and looked at the front sight like I did the first bank, instead of the bowling pins, six shots would have been more then enough.
Trigger control and concentrating on the front sight more then makes up for extra ammo.
seeker_two
New member
How many times do you plan to miss?
OldMarksman
Staff
These data from 63 actual SD incidents show a mean of 4.7 shots per incident. Of course, no one fired 4.7 shots. And of course, some involved more, and some less.
The results are consistent with what Tom Givens reports in Lessons from the Street for a different set of encounters.
Put yourself in their shoes. You are in the process of attacking someone at close range, to rob, car-jack, kid-nap, or kill. You are committed. The victim has shot at at and may have hit your accomplice. Do you try to outrun his or her bullets, count on his or her restraint, or try to disable him or her before he or she shoots you?
sirgilligan
New member
Scenario: You have semi-auto pistol with a 30 round mag by bed. The assailant enters your home quietly and shoots you. 
Scenario: You have a concealed .40 S&W. You are walking to your car, it is late and dark, security light is on the blink. There are shrubs and landscaping in the parking lot. An assailant lets you pass, comes out and hits you with a baseball bat.
Get a dog. Get a friend to walk with you. Move. Don't park in such places. Add motion activated lights. Move. Move. Don't live in fear and move.
I have a good friend that was in both Gulf Wars and between the wars was stationed to monitor the DMZ in South Korea. The pressure during the wars was so much that he got to where he had nightmares of his Semi-Auto jamming. He switched to revolvers for home defense for the first few years after the last war in Iraq. He values his families security and his life enough that he only buys the top end firearms and most all of them have been "worked" by the top gun smith for that particular make and model.
I am serious that if someone lives in a hell hole then move. I would rather greet at Wally Mart than be an executive and live in a dangerous area.
There is never enough when things are going wrong.
Scenario: You have a concealed .40 S&W. You are walking to your car, it is late and dark, security light is on the blink. There are shrubs and landscaping in the parking lot. An assailant lets you pass, comes out and hits you with a baseball bat.
Get a dog. Get a friend to walk with you. Move. Don't park in such places. Add motion activated lights. Move. Move. Don't live in fear and move.
I have a good friend that was in both Gulf Wars and between the wars was stationed to monitor the DMZ in South Korea. The pressure during the wars was so much that he got to where he had nightmares of his Semi-Auto jamming. He switched to revolvers for home defense for the first few years after the last war in Iraq. He values his families security and his life enough that he only buys the top end firearms and most all of them have been "worked" by the top gun smith for that particular make and model.
I am serious that if someone lives in a hell hole then move. I would rather greet at Wally Mart than be an executive and live in a dangerous area.
There is never enough when things are going wrong.
Is 6 rounds enough?
That one you have to answer for yourself, if comfortable with the though of only six in the pistol at a time then the answer is yes if not the answer is no. You know your training and what you can and are willing to do.
Best and scariest piece of advice I ever got was,(modified so as not to get in trouble with moderators) you guys ever get trapped and can't break contact, and there ain't no cavalry coming, be the toughest most expensive piece of meat they ever tried to get. It fits here, let yourself get in to deep to get out do what you have to, no pistol or amount of ammunition will seem like enough, at lest at the time.
That one you have to answer for yourself, if comfortable with the though of only six in the pistol at a time then the answer is yes if not the answer is no. You know your training and what you can and are willing to do.
Best and scariest piece of advice I ever got was,(modified so as not to get in trouble with moderators) you guys ever get trapped and can't break contact, and there ain't no cavalry coming, be the toughest most expensive piece of meat they ever tried to get. It fits here, let yourself get in to deep to get out do what you have to, no pistol or amount of ammunition will seem like enough, at lest at the time.
OldMarksman
Staff
If you are trying to mitigate the risk of being attacked on the street near your home, that's a strategy to consider, if you can do it.
But the 'bad guys' are mobile--and they'll go where the hunting is good.
For home invasions, that means a good neighborhood.
For a mugging or robbery at a service station, ATM, or store parking lot, that means anywhere that ingress and egress is easy, or outside a hospital or university where the victim will be unarmed.
Jayhawkhuntclub
New member
And these same people can become un-committed real fast when lead starts flying their direction. It's like a bully; they don't expect the victim to fight back.
The bottom line is there are too many variables to have a simple answer. The odds are most of us will never be in this type of situation to begin with. You need to take what you are willing to carry and what you are able to shoot. There are a lot of trade offs: weight and size vs concealability vs power vs round count vs cost. You might leave your 8 lbs of Glock at home that day because it's thick as a brick and uncomfortably heavy. Or you might bring your 22 Derringer and it may save your live. We all make our decisions and take our chances. Good luck!
jason_iowa
New member
I would not go into battle with only 6 shots but I would walk any neighborhood in the us with only a 6 shooter. I always laugh at the 9 mil crowd who thinks they need 16+ rounds and 2 reloads. If you run into that much trouble and don't have a long gun near by you already failed.
Single stack of 45 is plenty for me. 5-8 shots of 357 depending on what I'm carrying is plenty as well. The only reason I carry a reload of 45 is in case I have to drop a mag to clear an issue. If things really go south I have an AK near by most of the time with 151 rounds ready to rock. With a little practice you can switch out mags on the AK while keeping suppression fire going with your side arm. Handy in SE Afghanistan not so much in NE iowa.
Furthermore I would take 6 rounds of 45 over 40+ of 9mil in 99% of civilian encounters.
Single stack of 45 is plenty for me. 5-8 shots of 357 depending on what I'm carrying is plenty as well. The only reason I carry a reload of 45 is in case I have to drop a mag to clear an issue. If things really go south I have an AK near by most of the time with 151 rounds ready to rock. With a little practice you can switch out mags on the AK while keeping suppression fire going with your side arm. Handy in SE Afghanistan not so much in NE iowa.
Furthermore I would take 6 rounds of 45 over 40+ of 9mil in 99% of civilian encounters.
OldMarksman
Staff
Well, OK, but what will they choose as the best way to survive when someone very close to them shoots at someone else?
Yes indeed.
Crow Hunter
New member
Take a FOF training class or watch/read some AARs.
Make your decision based on data, not on what you read on the internet from people you don't know.
As a somewhat related aside, there is a good article by Pat Rogers on "Putting Down the Man gun" that is in this month's SWAT magazine where he details some of his thoughts/opinions.
Make your decision based on data, not on what you read on the internet from people you don't know.
As a somewhat related aside, there is a good article by Pat Rogers on "Putting Down the Man gun" that is in this month's SWAT magazine where he details some of his thoughts/opinions.
For what?
EDC I carry like 40 rounds. Rather have more ammo than I need than not have it!
I don't carry a spare gun in the car, it's on me and so is my ammo.
If I am on a bike ride its just my j frame and a reload. When I go out, because I don't know how long I will be out I carry 40+. Like the other day I was out from 2-11pm and had to go through a rough part of town, there was even a shooting around 10 there.
If it isn't, you have made some serious behavioral mistakes. And if 6 shots is not enough, why would 7 shots help?
Seriously, many armed confrontations end without shots fired, and many self-defense shootings involve a single shot, so why would 6 not be enough? I know, I have seen movies, too, but really?
ScottieG59
New member
This is one of those questions that cannot be definitively answered.
It is like asking how much insurance you need. If you never need it, you did not need any; if you do need it, you will want a lot more. Ultimately, you ask yourself what your comfort is.
Basically, there are scenarios you will likely not survive. There are many scenarios you may survive. You can changes the odds some with training,equipment, situational awareness and preparation. Like most things, lessening one area may be countered some by enhancing another.
Realize, we are not all the same in combat. Some of the individual factors are tough for some people to perform. Many are not prepared to perform an immediate, ruthless, unmitigated and violent counterattack. Before you plan to engage in combat, you should have an idea what it means. The firearm is one of several components.
It is like asking how much insurance you need. If you never need it, you did not need any; if you do need it, you will want a lot more. Ultimately, you ask yourself what your comfort is.
Basically, there are scenarios you will likely not survive. There are many scenarios you may survive. You can changes the odds some with training,equipment, situational awareness and preparation. Like most things, lessening one area may be countered some by enhancing another.
Realize, we are not all the same in combat. Some of the individual factors are tough for some people to perform. Many are not prepared to perform an immediate, ruthless, unmitigated and violent counterattack. Before you plan to engage in combat, you should have an idea what it means. The firearm is one of several components.
Is six enough
I don't carry a firearm as part of my job, so it's basically house use. I don't mind reloading after six, as it gives me time to look at the target. As for anything else, if I run out of ammo and the situation isn't resolved, I'll run like heck upstairs to grab another gun. That's if I still can. But the probabilities of that happening to me are as close statistically to zero as you can get.
I don't carry a firearm as part of my job, so it's basically house use. I don't mind reloading after six, as it gives me time to look at the target. As for anything else, if I run out of ammo and the situation isn't resolved, I'll run like heck upstairs to grab another gun. That's if I still can. But the probabilities of that happening to me are as close statistically to zero as you can get.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Depends on the intensity of the incident.
Single Mugger Be Gone - sure
The rare intense incident - Columbine, Trolley Square, Mumbai - no.
You just play the odds. Some incidents are intermediate. You can get into a prolonged fight in a robbery.
Single Mugger Be Gone - sure
The rare intense incident - Columbine, Trolley Square, Mumbai - no.
You just play the odds. Some incidents are intermediate. You can get into a prolonged fight in a robbery.
Creek Henry
New member
If 15 guys attack you and don't run or shoot back when you start shooting, it won't matter how many bullets your gun holds.
But, since trained LEOs only hit who they are ainming at 7 yards during a fire fight 14% of the time, you need 7 shots minimum
Also, odds are, whomever you are shooting at will not know how many bullets your guns holds and won't be counting anyway. That's pure movie stuff.
Fear is an amazing thing. Once someone gets scared, rationality disappears and the flight response kicks in. Or, all 14 or 15 guys left standing after your first shot will just jump you... which is less likely to happen.
But, since trained LEOs only hit who they are ainming at 7 yards during a fire fight 14% of the time, you need 7 shots minimum
Also, odds are, whomever you are shooting at will not know how many bullets your guns holds and won't be counting anyway. That's pure movie stuff.
Fear is an amazing thing. Once someone gets scared, rationality disappears and the flight response kicks in. Or, all 14 or 15 guys left standing after your first shot will just jump you... which is less likely to happen.