Is 6 Shots enough?

What is more important than a high cap gun is to carry enough gun.

A 45 ACP and a 44 Special are absolutely inferior to a 357 Magnum, even fired from a snubby, however, the trade off is that the 45 ACP is infinitely easy to get good hits with faster. The auto is easier to reload faster, to reload a revolver fast requires proper technique and lots of practice.

It all boils down to your training/experience level and your dedication to practice. A gunfight is a fight. The first person to land a decisive blow usually prevails.

Accuracy and power will trump capacity everytime.

Since I have retired my ROE have changed accordingly. My main gun is my Glock 23 loaded with 155 Federal HST's with 1 reload and my "new" backup is my new 640 Pro :D loaded with Corbon 125 Grn mag DPX and 2 reloads in moon clips.

It no longer matters if you live in a small town, a good neighborhood or whatever. Criminals are as mobile as we are, how many serial killers are roaming our streets? How far can a fugitive travel undetected? It has been stated repeatedly that criminals operate in teams.

As much as I love my wheelguns, I understand that they are not the best tool for every task. They shine when absolute power is needed, or when physical limitations dictate their use. A full power 10mm or a 460 Rowland bring a lot of power to the table as well.

Your comfort level will be based on your perceptions which are molded by your experience, training and education. I have seen enough people shot to know that I will carry the biggest, most powerful gun I can conceal and shoot well.
 
Is 6 Shots enough?
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As usual, this thread topic has produced a lot of opinions and experiences, but little in the way of some sort of "definitive" answer. ;)

If pressed for a short answer, I'd have to say ...

It depends who's carrying and shooting the 6 round handgun.

I never felt particularly "under-equipped" when I carried a 6-shot service revolver in the 80's. Of course, I could go with more ammunition capacity and carry my Colt Commander with it's 7+1 capacity on my own time.

I was eventually required to turn in my revolver and take a hi-cap Wonder Nine at the end of the 80's. I adapted.

I carried various issued pistols with mag capacities of 12, 14, & 15 rounds for some years, and then as time passed I found myself carrying pistols with mag capacities of 7, 8 & 9 rounds.

I ended my career carrying a 7+1 capacity .45 on-duty, and usually a 5-shot J-frame off-duty. I pretty much came back around full-circle, capacity-wise, I suppose. ;)

Nowadays I carry one or another 5-shot snub for retirement use. If my activities and areas of travel cause me to raise my risk assessment, I may carry one of my pistols that have mag capacities of 6-10 rounds.

As a firearms instructor, I've seen my fair share of folks who seemed to labor under the impression that higher capacity magazines might somehow offset "less developed & maintained" skills and abilities.

I'd give more concern to the knowledge, training, skillset, experience & mindset of the user, over the capacity issue, myself.

Suit yourself, though.
 
Posted by fastbolt: Nowadays I carry one or another 5-shot snub for retirement use. If my activities and areas of travel cause me to raise my risk assessment, I may carry one of my pistols that have mag capacities of 6-10 rounds.
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That comes pretty close to describing what I do these days.

I have to question whether I am relying to much on the supposed clairvoyance of my risk assessment, however.

I try to avoid going anywhere where I might conclude, "I would not go there unless I had a gun."

As a firearms instructor, I've seen my fair share of folks who seemed to labor under the impression that higher capacity magazines might somehow offset "less developed & maintained" skills and abilities.
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I'm not surprised.

I'd give more concern to the knowledge, training, skillset, experience & mindset of the user, over the capacity issue, myself.
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Absolutely!
 
Each of us is different, but as for me, I like high capacity handguns. A 7 shot revolver would be bought before a 6 shot one. Likewise, I prefer high capacity cenerfire pistols vs the slim stackers.

With one attacker, 6 shots would most likely be enough. With two attackers, you could probably still get by with a 6 shooter. Any more than 2......

I know the last time we heard this was when we fell off our dinosaurs BUT I'd rather "have the extra ammo and not need it than it need it and not have it".
 
In the million to one chance you ever have to pull a gun in a SD situation, it's not going to be the gun fight at the OK Corral.

Most of the time just displaying your peace maker will end the situation.

If you do fire a shot or two, that will end the confrontation right there.

There are two main things a thug doesn't want to happen, they don't want to get caught, and they don't want to get shot.

There is no honor among thieves. Even if there are a group of thugs, one or two shots will disperse them very fast. The lucky ones that don't get hit will not be sticking around to help their "friends".
 
I love the .357 but I just don't think this declarative has any basis in fact.
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In just energy alone the 357 Magnum has almost 1/4 more energy. It out penetrates either round and is more versatile. What facts do you want?
 
Or just a couple robbers.

Read an interesting article (linked in some thread or another on TFL) about a jewelry store in Norfolk that had been robbed a few times. Store owner had stashed several Model 10s behind his counters, and each employee had access to at least one.

In one robbery, two shotgun-armed robbers came in, and several employees needed revolvers. I believe the owner used two of them.

Doesn't have to be a drug gang. Moving target, returning fire and using cover, can make you waste some ammo. Edit: Don't forget, if you have any sense, you'll be moving and trying to find cover, two. So... shooter is moving and ducking, target is moving firing and ducking... I don't think people will be as accurate as they might like to think.

Oh, one last thing.... fastbolt, why do you assume everybody wants to substitute capacity for training or accuracy? If you are in the KC area in August or September, drop me a line, and we can go to the range. Then you can tell me how inaccurate and ill-trained I am.
 
Posted by afone1: Most of the time just displaying your peace maker will end the situation.
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That has been my experience.

What about the rest of the time?

If you do fire a shot or two, that will end the confrontation right there.
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An assumption that is oft put forth...

Consider this
  • Assailants with the ability and opportunity to kill or stop you....
  • Whose only sure way to avoid being shot is to do so...
  • Who may need your car to get away.

Do you want to bet your life on it?
 
"In the million to one chance you ever have to pull a gun in a SD situation, it's not going to be the gun fight at the OK Corral.

Most of the time just displaying your peace maker will end the situation.

If you do fire a shot or two, that will end the confrontation right there. " [afone1]

Does that mean that if I am exposed to a million possible threats I will only have to pull my gun once?

"Is 6 shots enough?"

Recall in Harris County, Texas, a home owner fired his 45ACP 1911 at 4 home-invaders fleeing with stolen property. Many would agree that a 1911 is plenty enuf gun...the homeowner fired 6 shots. Perps did not run, instead returned fire, the homeowner (whose 6 shots all missed) was hit 4 times by 9mm, 7.62x39mm, and 22 LR bullets. The homeowner died. Range was about 20 to 25 feet.

If you are going to fight, you must have very good nerves and also be a very good shot (ie bowling pin shooter) to boot.

A police detective said the homeowner was "outgunned."
 
In the million to one chance you ever have to pull a gun in a SD situation, it's not going to be the gun fight at the OK Corral.

Most of the time just displaying your peace maker will end the situation.

If you do fire a shot or two, that will end the confrontation right there.

There are two main things a thug doesn't want to happen, they don't want to get caught, and they don't want to get shot.

There is no honor among thieves. Even if there are a group of thugs, one or two shots will disperse them very fast. The lucky ones that don't get hit will not be sticking around to help their "friends".
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IMHO, Mindset, Tactics and Skill trump any discussion of equipment. I think all guns have their application and circumstances are too varied to make blanket statements.

That being said, the above comment is something that I have seen repeated multiple times on this thread in various ways. (I am not just picking on afone1.)

There are some very broad assumptions about opponents being put forth here.

Put the shoe on the other foot.

How would you react to the above situation?

As soon as someone pulls a gun on you, are you running away?

Are you just surrendering without a fight or will you draw and return fire until you feel safe?

When someone fires a shot or 2 at you, are you planning on standing there and taking it or are you going to start juking and jiving and trying to find cover while returning fire?

Lastly. If someone pulls a gun on you, would you rather it be a 5 shot J-frame or a 15 rd "hi cap auto"? Would it make you change your tactics?



Your potential opponents aren't immobile 2D cardboard targets on a range. They are real people and many may have similar responses to the same above stimuli as you do.

They might very well be just as well armed as you or maybe better armed.

Others may have faced this situation multiple times in their lives (from both ends of the gun) and be "veterans" and actually react more agressively with violence of action that you aren't experienced with.

They may have "seen the elephant" and they may have no fear whatsoever of death.

They may be high on drugs, know they will go to jail for life, be suicidal, or just plain psychopatic.

Just something to keep in mind when thinking about this.

Don't let yourself get into an A+B=C mindset and be caught completely off guard with the balloon really does drop.

You must be inside their OODA loop, not behind it.
 
Posted by Crow Hunter: IMHO, Mindset, Tactics and Skill trump any discussion of equipment.
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Yes indeed.

And there is one equipment-related issue that has not been discussed in any length that could prove pivotal. That's how one carries what one carries.

For example, vest or jacket pocket carry could enable one to present a weapon much more quickly and without telegraphing one's strategy than waistband carry--assuming, of course that the kind of pocket carrier lends itself to fast access.

If one carries a concealed hammer Ruger or S&W revolver in a jacket pocket, one could fire from the pocket if necessary, and that advantage could outweigh the disadvantage of limited capacity.

And then there's the issue of how to get to a firearm when one is strapped into the driver's seat. That second revolver that some have been talking about might create some possibilities.

All of which come after training in order of importance.....
 
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