Is 5 Enough?
- Thread starter Model12Win
- Start date
CalmerThanYou
New member
The patina in that M12 is super nice.
Model12Win
Moderator
I'm sure it won't look super nice after it spends a few months/years in a police evidence locker if it is ever used for defense. Why risk an antique collectible WW2 shotgun?
Model12Win
Moderator
Very cool. Does he mention magazine capacity?
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Yes, he goes over why people think 5 is just fine because they won't miss, the rounds will be instantly effective and there won't be multiple attackers.
Oh, well.
Thus, he argues for more capacity and suggested the Aquila minishells with a gadget that makes them usable as some guns have problems with them.
He also debunks the old racking to scare them away mantra, the shot will spread to fill a room, etc.
It all boils down the core debate of the single attacker who goes away if you wave the gun at them, or you fire under stress the instantly effective one shot as compared to the more intense incident where it all goes to hell. That might be rarer but gun folks on the Internets seem to think the average means it always happens.
Oh, well.
Thus, he argues for more capacity and suggested the Aquila minishells with a gadget that makes them usable as some guns have problems with them.
He also debunks the old racking to scare them away mantra, the shot will spread to fill a room, etc.
It all boils down the core debate of the single attacker who goes away if you wave the gun at them, or you fire under stress the instantly effective one shot as compared to the more intense incident where it all goes to hell. That might be rarer but gun folks on the Internets seem to think the average means it always happens.
roashooter
Moderator
fools on the internet are all convinced any shooting will be with multiple attackers....requiring many reloads/high capacity....
JoeSixpack
New member
fools on the internet are all convinced any shooting will be with multiple attackers....requiring many reloads/high capacity....
Better to have it and not need it, Then need it and not have it.
BG's are braver in groups, Or do you believe anything but 1on1 encounters are rare?
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Couldn't afford a SPAS-12 so I reconfigured my 870 to serve the same purpose.
Walnut stocked 870 3" mag retrofitted with a {Rem 20" slug barrel having open barrel sights.}~~~ Its my dual purpose home & afield persuade'er.
Having_ Full_Slug(rifled)_&_ Open Cylinder chokes for the 870 allows the pump to do a little casual up-land bird hunting for me occasionally also.
Underneath the 870s 20" barrel a Choate 3 shot-shell extended magazine tube is screwed on. That's 8 rounds of Federal 00 Buck intended for those uninvited home invasion dummy's who are willing fools to confront such firepower.
"A compact in size scatter-gun that will assuredly ruin a bad guys day."
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...-clamp-remington-870-1100-11-87-12-gauge-blue
Walnut stocked 870 3" mag retrofitted with a {Rem 20" slug barrel having open barrel sights.}~~~ Its my dual purpose home & afield persuade'er.
Having_ Full_Slug(rifled)_&_ Open Cylinder chokes for the 870 allows the pump to do a little casual up-land bird hunting for me occasionally also.
Underneath the 870s 20" barrel a Choate 3 shot-shell extended magazine tube is screwed on. That's 8 rounds of Federal 00 Buck intended for those uninvited home invasion dummy's who are willing fools to confront such firepower.
"A compact in size scatter-gun that will assuredly ruin a bad guys day."
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...-clamp-remington-870-1100-11-87-12-gauge-blue
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
If one looks at the expert reports, 30 to 40% of attacks, etc. have more than 1 criminal. 3 or more are not uncommon.
If you decide that you don't have to deal with such, then you are free to do so.
Of course, we know that that Denny is incorrect, and you will be dead-eyed and lethal with each shot.
A shotgun class or match with multiple targets is an eye opener if you do try such.
If you decide that you don't have to deal with such, then you are free to do so.
Of course, we know that that Denny is incorrect, and you will be dead-eyed and lethal with each shot.
A shotgun class or match with multiple targets is an eye opener if you do try such.
Model12Win
Moderator
Would a 9-shot Mossberg M590A1 be more ideal for the job?
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I would say that for standard shotgun, that's pretty good.
8 to 9 rounds is reasonable. Yeah, you could to the trick double tube guns for more but then I would say, get a carbine.
Tom Givens had the concept of time in the fight. That means how long you can stay fighting before gun equipment issues take you out. Thus, the less capacity the quicker you are out of it. For a shotgun, with 5 - you are out pretty quick. Unless you are the person who hits every target with a stopper, you are out quick.
As I said, reloading under stress is fun. Givens had us do a drill with 4 people in a row. The first guy loaded one round and shot, the guy next to him had to load as he shot and so on down the line. As it reached the end of the line, the first guy had to load two and fire, the next guy loaded two as he fired, then three and four - by the time we got to four - it was tight and screwing up the load and rack was a real possibility.
Also, in another class - moving through a 'shoot house', why surprise - you could miss a real close target. Now how could that happen.
One hoot for double barrel fans at the NTI - you start in a smock which was to simulate being naked. You pick up a coach gun and a box of shell and a flashlight. You have to navigate your house with multiple bad guns - shoot, reload, light and hold on to everything. Remember you are naked, so to speak. It was fun. Shoot the gun, reload , forget that the safety came back on.
After shooting two targets, here's a surprise one popping out - so no rounds in the gun - it was close, so I butt stroked it. OK - having a carbine with 30 would be a better plan - in my mind.
Now, I wouldn't feel helpless with my Defender and 8 rounds but going for less, when more are possible - I just don't see it.
8 to 9 rounds is reasonable. Yeah, you could to the trick double tube guns for more but then I would say, get a carbine.
Tom Givens had the concept of time in the fight. That means how long you can stay fighting before gun equipment issues take you out. Thus, the less capacity the quicker you are out of it. For a shotgun, with 5 - you are out pretty quick. Unless you are the person who hits every target with a stopper, you are out quick.
As I said, reloading under stress is fun. Givens had us do a drill with 4 people in a row. The first guy loaded one round and shot, the guy next to him had to load as he shot and so on down the line. As it reached the end of the line, the first guy had to load two and fire, the next guy loaded two as he fired, then three and four - by the time we got to four - it was tight and screwing up the load and rack was a real possibility.
Also, in another class - moving through a 'shoot house', why surprise - you could miss a real close target. Now how could that happen.
One hoot for double barrel fans at the NTI - you start in a smock which was to simulate being naked. You pick up a coach gun and a box of shell and a flashlight. You have to navigate your house with multiple bad guns - shoot, reload, light and hold on to everything. Remember you are naked, so to speak. It was fun. Shoot the gun, reload , forget that the safety came back on.
After shooting two targets, here's a surprise one popping out - so no rounds in the gun - it was close, so I butt stroked it. OK - having a carbine with 30 would be a better plan - in my mind.
Now, I wouldn't feel helpless with my Defender and 8 rounds but going for less, when more are possible - I just don't see it.
I don't care for the handling of shotguns with long, fully loaded magazine tubes. In my judgment, those would hurt my hit probability more than the extra rounds would help. Even with the short recovery time provided by gas operation, those missed shots are wastes of time and opportunity, and a risk to my neighbors.
I'd put more thought into patterning the shotgun and practicing with it than into the magazine capacity.
I'd put more thought into patterning the shotgun and practicing with it than into the magazine capacity.