Is 5 Enough?

Is 4+1 enough capacity for a 12 gauge defensive shotgun?

  • Yes

    Votes: 40 74.1%

  • No

    Votes: 14 25.9%
  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .
sometimes I do not understand the mind set that... an opponent...will continue to advance after becoming aware that a shotgun...of ANY kind is being used against them....in a home invasion scenario....combat..is an entirely different situation.......I have a belief...that when someone wants a high capacity firearm...its from playing to much video shootemups...

The average "gun fight" in a defense situation there are an average of 2.4 rounds exchanged. With a hit from a shotgun the fight is going to end rapidly. Most bad guys are afraid of a civilian with any kind of gun but with a shotgun ... well let's just say that they think they will be buried in two bags.
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Agree.........

Five is plenty. Does anyone really think that a BG is really going to continue any kind of aggressive behavior towards you when you're unloading five rounds of 12 ga. anything in their direction? Assuming you're a terrible shot and miss him/her with all 5 rounds, they're going to surrender immediately, or dive for cover, or run as fast as humanly possible from the area.

Of course, probably this would be true regardless of what gun you were firing in the close confines of your home. But in this case we're talking about a short shotgun, and I believe it's highly unlikely that any BG is going to count your shots while you're firing 12 ga. rounds at them. If they can, after the first round, they're going to find a way out of that place. They are not going to say to themselves, "Oh, that was his 4th shot, if he has a a 4+1, I can attack him after the next round." Nope, that's not going to happen in reality.
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agreed.....
 
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Some people believe the world is flat. Just heard a discussion of that from a group of folks in Colorado.

You are free to assume that an opponent will cease action.

I agree that wanting a high capacity firearm is from playing too many video games, thus, I have been converted to supporting Nancy Pelosi, the new CA laws, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden and shooting my gun in the air, Gov. Cuomo and the SAFE act which has made a gun crime free paradise. Yes, indeed. I'm convinced. I'm writing the NRA to tune it down.

PS - Reminds me of a conversation at Cabelas. I'm browsing at the counter.

Guy with his female SO asks the clerk for a pump shotgun. He say because:

1. If you rack it they will run away.
2. If they don't run away, can you sell me some blanks so I can scare them

Clerk says - I can sell you some rubber buckshot.

I say - Wait - that's silly. They both glare at me. Lesson, let fools go their own way.

However, I am convinced that bad guys will be scared and never continue a fight and I will never miss and all my shots will be instantly disabling.

I could document multiple house invaders but hey - I'm not you and you make your own decisions on how to scare them.
 
"...had swelled up under the constant pressure..." Not a chance with plastic hulls. There isn't enough pressure from a mag spring to do anything like that either. Mag springs do not increase in strength over time any more than they lose temper.
You're not going into combat. Five is plenty, but the shotgun isn't as cool looking. Needs the bayonet lug too.
"...is as intimidating as hell..." Moreso if you polish then end of the muzzle. Makes the holes look bigger. snicker.
 
roashooter said:
sometimes I do not understand the mind set that... an opponent...will continue to advance after becoming aware that a shotgun...of ANY kind is being used against them....in a home invasion scenario....combat..is an entirely different situation.......
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Maybe they are deaf, high on drugs, drunk, have nothing to lose, want to be killed by someone else's hand... but also don't forget that if a criminal has done the same thing multiple times before, it isn't the view that they will fail here. Racking a shotgun isn't a sure-proof way to have someone crap their drawers.

For the intruder, maybe the person behind the gun (victim) is bluffing. Maybe it is unloaded. Maybe they don't really know how to work it. Maybe they took their contacts out and don't keep glasses by the bed.

While I tend to keep chambers empty on my shotguns, I don't do it so people would hear that cool sound at night. I do it so the gun is secure, and heaven forbid that my girlfriend is cleaning/making the bed, knocks the safety off, and then hits the trigger... I don't have to repair the wall in my bedroom. Also, that is how I was trained on the 870... stored chamber empty. My side-saddle is setup up identically to how it was ran, and I made sure my girlfriend knows how to get the gun into action.
 
Okay, gang. Seems about 1/3 persons doesn't believe 4+1 is enough for a defensive shotgun.

For those who answered "no", what capacity would you prefer for a defensive shotgun?
 
Model12Win said:
Is 5 shots of 12 gauge enough for a defensive shotgun? I use a Remington 870 Police with standard 4+1 capacity but am not sure if that's enough. What are your thoughts? Am I doomed? Is it sufficient? Am I all alone in preferring the balance and feel of no extended mag tube?



If you don't think 4+1 is enough, please let us known what capacity you would feel comfortable with for defense.



Discuss!



PS: This is discussing 4+1 shotgun capacity for civilian self defense, not for law enforcement or military work.
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Can you shoot 5 total better than 8? If so...yes. Odds are you will need one round only. If you need more than 5? You probably needed an AR anyway. Or something with a 30 round mag. My understanding is that when it comes to the gun...if you aren't shooting it...you need to be reloading it. More than 5 shots in rapid succession?

And just so that I make my point...my current long gun for home defense:

541329e8c6cd83a825ace7e9e8a80455.jpg


I would prefer something better...but I have what I have. And I don't miss with that gun.


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Glenn E. Meyer said:
Some people believe the world is flat. Just heard a discussion of that from a group of folks in Colorado.



You are free to assume that an opponent will cease action.



I agree that wanting a high capacity firearm is from playing too many video games, thus, I have been converted to supporting Nancy Pelosi, the new CA laws, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden and shooting my gun in the air, Gov. Cuomo and the SAFE act which has made a gun crime free paradise. Yes, indeed. I'm convinced. I'm writing the NRA to tune it down.



PS - Reminds me of a conversation at Cabelas. I'm browsing at the counter.



Guy with his female SO asks the clerk for a pump shotgun. He say because:



1. If you rack it they will run away.

2. If they don't run away, can you sell me some blanks so I can scare them



Clerk says - I can sell you some rubber buckshot.



I say - Wait - that's silly. They both glare at me. Lesson, let fools go their own way.



However, I am convinced that bad guys will be scared and never continue a fight and I will never miss and all my shots will be instantly disabling.



I could document multiple house invaders but hey - I'm not you and you make your own decisions on how to scare them.
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They sell tuned up paintball guns at Walmart now that shoot pepper spray and rubber bullets lol. To be fair...I've always wanted to shoot someone in the chest with a beanbag round. But not if I were defending my life. Or more importantly. My girlfriend.

Hell...using that idiots logic...why not get a scary dog? Hell...most criminals ARE more scared of them anyway. But then you will have people trying to ban pit bulls and other "aggressive" breeds....oh wait!


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Some truisms.
You will probably never hear:
"Gee, I wish I was carrying less ammo."
Something you will hear:
"The gun is the least of it."
"Skill and training trump equipment."
 
5 Is more then enough if you had good hits.. is the misses I worry about.
I prefer a handgun for home defense, now if I was outside my home say.. back yard, then shotgun would get the nod.

I don't normally leave the shotguns out and loaded, But on the rare Occasion I do it's in cruiser mode (empty chamber).. not because I wanna rack the slide and scare the bad guy.. but because a lot of shotguns are not considered drop safe.

I have 2 maverick 88's 8shots (7+1) being they're only 1.5 inch longer for a few more shots I'd use them over 5or6 shot models.

Im not particularly fast with reloading shotguns, and I am not a fan of side saddles, feeder stocks, etc, I don't want the gun any heavier then it already is by hanging extra ammo off it.

If It ran dry im gonna either use it like a club or toss it down and go for my pistol which I'd prefer to have on me even if I do have a shotgun.

Model12Win said:
Okay, gang. Seems about 1/3 persons doesn't believe 4+1 is enough for a defensive shotgun.

For those who answered "no", what capacity would you prefer for a defensive shotgun?
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10 sounds like a nice number but not many pumps (actually I know of none) carry that much.

I'd rather go with a 20inch and get a few more rounds into it over the 18.5's with short mag tubes.

They do have those mini shells that are like 2.5.. can fit more of those in the tube but I hear of feeding problems on some guns.

EDIT: Actually there are some dual tubed shotguns like the keltec that hold more then 10 but I meant traditional 1 barrel 1 magtube pump.
 
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Five is enough if all you need is five. If you need 6, Oops, I wish I had bought that(insert whatever shotgun you prefer) that held eight rounds you mumble as the world goes dark. I am of the persuasion that more is usually better. I want one round left over after the incident, and the more the merrier,as far as ammo goes, because you cannot predict every situation. Golly Gee, Batman, that reminds me I only have 5 rounds loaded in my Mossberg 930. Excuse me, while I throw in a few more shells.
 
To answer a question - Winchester Defender with 7 rounds. Empty chamber for safety as such guns aren't drop proof. While some say you can get 8 rounds in the tube, I haven't.

I don't give a crap about racking - when the gun comes out it is racked to be usable and not as a sound effect. In fact, if you want to scare or warn the bad guys, from cover - you announce you are armed, the police are called. Also, have an alarm by the safe room or other house locations that sounds a loud alarm.

Standing there like a putz in the open and racking Rambo - stupid. Perhaps, police in clear sight of their persons of interest might rack for effect. You in your house - dumb.

In case, as I said - more likely to go to the handgun and flashlight, with the AR for safe room hunkering down.
 
5 is enough if a) you're dealing with one or two assailants and b) you can, in fact hit the broadside of a barn. It's not enough if you are in the middle of a riot.
 
A shotgun nuance, how well to you handle it in less than optimal conditions? Standing on the range and getting a good stance is one thing. A friend of mine took part in a police and military shotgun match. They had to shoot under a car. He didn't get a firm placement on the gun and dislocated his shoulder - ouch. The pistol grip guns - people eat them.

I doubt a carbine would do something evil like that. I do heartily recommend practice and classes with them. Givens does a great one.
 
I don't want to store a shotgun with a round chambered.

Shotgun shells are heavy, so I didn't want extra shells festooned on the outside.

I would prefer not to do anything in a stress fire situation except pump and fire. So no reloading if I can help it.

Given all that, I have a 7+1 Mossberg with a 20" barrel. It doesn't handle quite as well as a 18", but well enough. Seven shots seems like a reasonable compromise.
 
My CCW instructor (ex cop) said he keeps a round of plastic "less lethal" in the chamber, and the magazine full of 00. His philosophy was you get one warning shot. . .
 
There are times when one found is sufficient.
There are times you wish you had a belt fed machine gun.
Nothing wrong with nine rounds in a shotgun unless it is too heavy for you. In that case get some weights and work out a bit, maybe run a mile a day. Get your old Garand out and carry it ten miles per day hunting deer. :)
 
The less lethal warning shot really got me thinking. For home defense, if I am putting my hands on any firearm, and someone is in my home, I would not afford a warning shot. Perhaps in some other situation outside my home that thought pattern may apply. But I doubt it. I voted five being enough, based on having other options near if something really nasty broke out.
 
My take on the warning shot is that you have no business shooting anyone with anything unless lethal force is justified. But if lethal force IS justified, you're going to want to deliver it right now, not on your next shot.
 
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