Iran issues stark military warning to United States

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Let The Israelis...

Handle Iran. U.S. has already done its fair share in the Middle East. Ahmadinejad wanted to blow up Israel - let the Israelis blow-up Iran.
 
their latest training exercise was nothing more than them flexing their muscles, but they don't have any to speak of. imagine our technologically advanced troops fighting an army from WWII. that's a decent comparison.

Maybe, but what ever happened to "don't underestimate your enemy?" History is full of examples of an overly confident world power losing to smaller forces of less trained fighters. Just think of the American Revolution.

Iran suffered between 450,000-957,000, according to the wikipedia article about the war. Why shouldn't we expect that they'd be willing to lose a similar ammount of people if we go to war with them? Plus, they'd probably step up their efforts to disrupt our mission of stabalizing Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure we could/would take out many of the important targets by air, but without soldiers on the ground, how effective would that be?
 
I find this EMP article to be a little extreme. I'm aware of EMP, but I thought a single warhead could only cause localized damage. I don't see how one or even several warheads could damage the whole nation's power grid. Maybe a couple of cities...but not the whole nation.

And I believe the grid had enough redundancy in it that repairing or replacing power to a few cities would not take more than a few weeks at most.

Can someone convince me that I'm wrong on that?

Actually, the problem doesn't just come from taking out the power grid. An EMP of sufficient strength would disable computers, TVs, Radios even the computers in newer cars. Pretty much most electronic devices. While nobody has ever tested a device, the theory is pretty much proven. And, a regular nuke will do it, but there's simple ways to enhance the effect. A good sized EMP device, at sufficient altitude COULD take out large portions of the country. One over/near each coast could cripple the majority of our infrastructure.

From a miltary perspective, I think our problems lie with the way we've chosen to fight, ever since Vietnam, and Afganistan, Iraq and potentially Iran and North Korea. and its a HUGE moral dilemma. We've chosen to try to minimize or negate civilian casualities. This makes it very difficult to "win".

In WWII, once we started massive bombings of Germany (Yes, we targeted military/industrial targets, but civilian casualties were quite high, and even the psychological effects of constant bombardment were devastating), it had a significant, if not deciding impact on the war in Europe. And, of course, many thousands of civilians died when we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but it ended the war in the Pacific, pretty darn quick. Once people (even in a totalitarian state) have bombs raining down on them, they tend to lose interest, in fighting or supporting a fight their government started.

Heck, today, and with our technology, we could simply issue an ultimatum, to Iran, warning all civilians out of Tehran for example. We'll give you 48 hours to evacuate, and sometime after that we're simply gonna turn it into a parking lot. The can rattle their sabers all they want, but once the B-2s and Cruise Missiles start flying, its all over.

Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just go all imperialist, and just take over these places...Hey we need the oil!:eek:

Random musings, take 'em for what they're worth
 
csspecs,
Please don't confuse the discussion with inaccurate information. The entire paragraph titled "What does an EMP do" is patently false.

What an EMP does:
It creates a voltage spike in exposed circuits. This spike is enough to destroy P-N junctions (which is how diodes and transistors work). This effect is most prominent in sillicon and metal oxide substrates.

What an EMP does not do:
It does not "turn magnets back into iron". Modern magnets aren't even iron to begin with.
It does not harm electronics that are shielded by a grounded case (faraday cages).
It does not harm vacuum tubes, power FETs, most capacitors, resistors, or motors. Or generators.
Because of this, the power grid will remain largely unaffected. Perversely, older electronic communication systems are also unaffected due to their reliance on vacuum-tube technology. Military systems will remain unaffected as they are designed to withstand this effect.

What will be affected:
Almost all vehicles built after 1980 will not start. All home electronics will be dead. Any home appliances that have microcontrollers will not work.
Many civillian communication systems will be fried. Think of the big y2k scare and that's the scope of the potential disruption.

What an EMP device is:
Any atomic warhead is automatically an EMP device. As such, we have had EMP devices since the '40s. This is not new technology. Every nuclear-armed nation has EMP devices.
In addition, it is possible to create an EMP device using conventional explosives by transferring the energy released into electromagnetic radiation. The technology required to do this is available to literally everybody, thus it is a formidable terrorist weapon.
Anybody on this board is capable of producing an EMP device of their own in their basement using openly available materials. No, I'm not gonna tell you how :)

/electronics tech at a major defense contractor
 
The truth of the matter is the world would shake if we unleased the dogs of war.

Not sure I agree with your assessment while our troops are great there numbers are not what they should be for a super power. American people no longer have the desire to fight a prolonged war, well perhaps if they could hire illegals.:rolleyes:
 
iran is just rattling its saber..

I believe if iran attacked the US directly, the response would be surprisingly quick and decisive.I have alot of faith in the US military,its soldiers and its stealth and weapons technology

whether or not the other countries got involved would depend on how it started and the civilian casulties which seemingly provokes the most outrage.

the holocost denial thing is taunts to the isrealis.not a good thing neither.
 
EMPs

+1 Wingman. It's not a question of whether we "could" win any war militarily. We clearly could. It's a question of the US citizens (mostly the left) doens't have the stomach for it. A few thousand casualties and a couple years later and despite all of the positive ground our soldiers have made the left wants to turn tail and run. Sends a clear message to the bad guys -- "draw it out, use gorilla tactics, kill a couple per day, and the US backing will buckle." If we had the same weak stomach for war mentality during WWII, the outcome may have been much different.

On another note:
If EMPs are so effective and disable anything that uses electricity, why didn't we use them on all of Iraq's cities and why don't we just use them on all of Iran. Seems like troops might be much easier to defeat without radios, vehicles, lights, or any power whatsoever....

Sure, they can still fight with stationary cannons, guns, etc. but it's very hard to mobilize and move a modern army without electricity or working vehicles....
 
Well, I am most likely in the minority with the forthcoming opinion, but here it is anyway....

I honestly think the US needs to toughen its stance on threats made against us, and we need to stop worrying about being correct, or PC or what have you, and stop worrying about the global picture of us as a whole. We are going to 'PC' ourselves into occupation if we don't watch it....


If you have a country full of radical, hate-mongering, dangerous psychopaths that are trying very hard to develop nuclear weapons and have made ACTIVE THREATS against us, why in the hell would you WAIT FOR IT TO HAPPEN!? Why do you think they WANT the nukes!? Just what do you think thier primary purpose is!?

STOP rebuilding and coddling countries that we had to devistate because our security was threatened. Go to a policy of, "You threaten us, we annihilate you....and the survivors go back to pointy sticks and fire....no more handouts"

Now while I am not advocating the wholesale slaughter of civilians, sometimes examples must be made when the direct safety of your nation is concerned.... Notice that the only japanese presence around pearl harbor, ect. these days are just tourists taking pictures? Theres a REASON FOR THAT. ;)

As someone else stated, issue a warning to any such country, (as our planes are blocking thier sunlight) that civilians have x hours to vacate.....and we bomb them until all they have left is sand and camels. They gotta send notice of their surrender by carrier pigeon....it would be funny how fast hostility against the US would cease......
 
Lead Counsel,
Review my post regarding EMPs. The earlier one you're referring to is bad info.

EMP bombs are ineffective against a modern military infrastructure. It's the civillians who would be disrupted. I, personally, would be less effected than most ;)
 
Ok, hur's my take on things, Iran HAS to take a defiant pose in regard to the united states, otherwise they get to line up next to every other 'subservient' nation that has the honor of licking our boots. They don't want war anymore than we do (wait a sec, we love war...). Given, they do wish to remove israel but what crazy nation hasn't gone through that phase at some point... So far I haven't seen any threats from iran somuch as 'if you start it, we'll finish it' kinda talk. Furthermore, (get ready to get flamed) if you lived in a country that had 2 neighbors invaded, bombed to 'ish, and finally have corrupt puppet gub'ments installed to support PERMANENT amurican military bases, wouldn't you wanna nuke in your inventory? I know I would. Now, I'm not trying to make an arguement for why iran 'should have the bomb' or anything, I'm just trying to say that us noble american's have become about as clean as our preacher's sheets, and for us to trumpet why iran deserves to get nuked from the rooftops is not the answer, not to discount any good thought out fearmongering articles (25!). We can convice ourselves that iran's the biggest theat since ebola, but until they attack us out the fricken blue...we know how this ends. The last thing we need to do is start something with iran due to how big a perceived threat they are (cuz we can't leave threats well enough alone...unless they're korean, then we can't leave them alone enough!)

Anyone else here think that a nationwide emp that turned off everyone's credit scores, atms, TELEVISIONS, and computers might be a good thing? I'm really starting to have reservations about the effects of all our modern technology. I sat and whatched my father in law die slowly from cancer...for over a month each day was though to be his last. It was a horrible and excruciating experience made worse by how much of his precious last time was spent staring at a stupid box...how much of our families and our very lives have we lost staring at a stupid box of plastic and glass? I know I can't be the only one thinking this.

Here's to the stone age!
 
GoSlash27

Has anyone ever used a nuke as an EMP before?

If so what did it do to the city it hit?

How did motors and other things in the city fair?

How can you ground something if the earths magnetic field is also going through fluctuations?



I just want to point out that something so large can not be tested in a lab very well, as you don't get to see the big picture.
 
css,
Yes, they did use an atomic bomb to disrupt some local infrastructure back in the '50s when they were still doing above-ground testing.
The EMP effect was discovered as an inadvertent side-effect. For example, the Johnson tests caused EMP disruption as far away as Hawaii. These days they are capable of simulating EMP effects without cooking off bombs.

Surge effects are very comparable to those of a nearby lightning strike. Received EM radiation into wiring and antennas overloading receivers and induced voltages into power lines (surge) damaging electronics.
It does not disrupt the local magnetic alignment, but the effects of disruption of the upper ionosphere (which ducts long-range low frequency communications) has been shown to render skip and multi-bounce communication dead for several hours.
EMP isn't a super-powerful magnet bomb or anything like that. It's just a very "loud" burst of high frequency radio waves.

Some reading material on the subject:
http://www.americanschoolofdefense.com/nuclear.htm
http://www.tfd.chalmers.se/~valeri/EMP.html
http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/2005-04-NWE_Report _Final.pdf
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm
 
Tyme,
Yep. Pardon me for repeating your link. We were both posting at the same time.
Anywho, the intarweb will be dead. Even the DoD uses civillian computers in it's offices. Only the hardened command and control networks will survive within the affected area.
 
Ok they fire the nuclear missle at the US. and knock out our electronics. What will our submarine response be? A few dozen missles fired back at Iran? They aren't just going to sit in the water playing war games are they? If not a submarine resoponse then what about the surface fleet? Would we fire nuclear missles in response to a nuclear attack?
I don't know if or how well surfce ship's command and control facilities are shielded gainst EMP - but my guess is that they are well shielded and could launch nukes on Iran after an EMP preemptive strike.

Submarines could dive deep and be safe from EMP. Even if subs were our only response, they would unleash a sh*tstorm on Iran that would be the end of that nation and "government." The thing that concerns me is that the nutjobs in charge in Tehran hve no clue what they are screwing with.

Attention all hands: Guns up!:D
 
Steelheart,
Subs and surface ships won't be affected at all. The bell-ringer ELF communications to subs would possibly be cut off for a few hours depending on the location of the burst.
Yes, the Iranians are fully aware (just as the North Koreans) that it is our policy to retaliate if nuked. They may rattle their sabres, but they know that they're dead if they dare to use them.
Terrorists with nukes OTOH are a different matter since we wouldn't have a target to retaliate on.
 
Ok, hur's my take on things, Iran HAS to take a defiant pose in regard to the united states, otherwise they get to line up next to every other 'subservient' nation that has the honor of licking our boots. They don't want war anymore than we do (wait a sec, we love war...). Given, they do wish to remove israel but what crazy nation hasn't gone through that phase at some point... So far I haven't seen any threats from iran somuch as 'if you start it, we'll finish it' kinda talk. Furthermore, (get ready to get flamed) if you lived in a country that had 2 neighbors invaded, bombed to 'ish, and finally have corrupt puppet gub'ments installed to support PERMANENT amurican military bases, wouldn't you wanna nuke in your inventory? I know I would. Now, I'm not trying to make an arguement for why iran 'should have the bomb' or anything, I'm just trying to say that us noble american's have become about as clean as our preacher's sheets, and for us to trumpet why iran deserves to get nuked from the rooftops is not the answer, not to discount any good thought out fearmongering articles (25!). We can convice ourselves that iran's the biggest theat since ebola, but until they attack us out the fricken blue...we know how this ends. The last thing we need to do is start something with iran due to how big a perceived threat they are (cuz we can't leave threats well enough alone...unless they're korean, then we can't leave them alone enough!)
:rolleyes:
 
hey, we could always attack the nation that some terrorists were from...unless it's in the kingdom of soud...but why would we want to do that? They're such great friends...
 
I'm just trying to say that us noble american's have become about as clean as our preacher's sheets, and for us to trumpet why iran deserves to get nuked from the rooftops is not the answer, not to discount any good thought out fearmongering articles (25!).

Kinda funny, if you give out what you read you are a fear monger. Yet if you are uninformed you are a dead idiot:D If it makes you fearfull then don't read it:D :D :eek:

25
 
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