Immigration Solution? (merged threads)
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Fire in the Hole
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If they get over here and squirt one out they are home free. Any kid born here is a citizen automatically. Hey....and no medical bills either, they can just say gracias and walk out without worrying about paying anything.
If they get over here and squirt one out they are home free. Any kid born here is a citizen automatically. Hey....and no medical bills either, they can just say gracias and walk out without worrying about paying anything.
"So the poor folks who live along the border and get raped, robbed, vandalized and thier places junked and are American citizens have no rights when it comes to illegal immigrations and border crossings PSE?"
What about the poor people living in every major city in the US who have been getting robbed, rapped, vandalized, shot stabbed, burlgarized by the NONWORKING minorities for the last 40 years. I feel alot safer in Barsto than i do in Atlanta or Detroit or Liberty City ect ect.
Dont try to make crime seem like a pinncal issue when the same crimes have been commited for 40 years and noone has been willing to do anything about it.
OH, but that was different! you know why.
Because is those areas of the country the crime is black on black. now that its hispanic on whites its different right?
you want to focus on crime for a min.? read this and tell me who the criminals are. the same people who are rapeing the social services of this country are rapeing the women. the same people who have assaulted the unemployment system have assaulted the population.
read it and tell me your more worried about illigals. why do you NOW want to do something when this has been going on for 40 years? http://www.nc-f.org/colorcrime99.pdf
What about the poor people living in every major city in the US who have been getting robbed, rapped, vandalized, shot stabbed, burlgarized by the NONWORKING minorities for the last 40 years. I feel alot safer in Barsto than i do in Atlanta or Detroit or Liberty City ect ect.
Dont try to make crime seem like a pinncal issue when the same crimes have been commited for 40 years and noone has been willing to do anything about it.
OH, but that was different! you know why.
Because is those areas of the country the crime is black on black. now that its hispanic on whites its different right?
you want to focus on crime for a min.? read this and tell me who the criminals are. the same people who are rapeing the social services of this country are rapeing the women. the same people who have assaulted the unemployment system have assaulted the population.
read it and tell me your more worried about illigals. why do you NOW want to do something when this has been going on for 40 years? http://www.nc-f.org/colorcrime99.pdf
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FirstFreedom
Moderator
PSE, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever, by setting up your classic false dichotomy error of logic:
"There's a huge problem with crimes in major cities which hasn't been adequately dealt with, and therefore we should ignore the huge *additional* problem with crimes associated with illegal immigration."
One ain't got nuttin' to do with the other. We should (and must) crack down on BOTH problems. But just because we aren't doing enough to deal with problem A, doesn't mean that we shouldn't capitalize on the groundswell of support for dealing with problem B, by striking while the political iron is hot.
As for a head of lettuce, that so-called logic has been debunked time and again. You wouldn't do your own picking. The price of your lettuce head *would* indeed go up significantly....meaning that it would be $0.99 instead of 59 cents. Big deal. Still dirt cheap from massive farming operations. Then the legal americans, both white and darker-skinned (ya know, the ones that DON'T throw beer bottles at the heads of american soccer players when they play mexico) earning the higher wages & benefits causing the lettuce to double in price will have more money to spend in the ecomomy and for themselves. And your grocery budget will still not kill you.
"There's a huge problem with crimes in major cities which hasn't been adequately dealt with, and therefore we should ignore the huge *additional* problem with crimes associated with illegal immigration."
One ain't got nuttin' to do with the other. We should (and must) crack down on BOTH problems. But just because we aren't doing enough to deal with problem A, doesn't mean that we shouldn't capitalize on the groundswell of support for dealing with problem B, by striking while the political iron is hot.
As for a head of lettuce, that so-called logic has been debunked time and again. You wouldn't do your own picking. The price of your lettuce head *would* indeed go up significantly....meaning that it would be $0.99 instead of 59 cents. Big deal. Still dirt cheap from massive farming operations. Then the legal americans, both white and darker-skinned (ya know, the ones that DON'T throw beer bottles at the heads of american soccer players when they play mexico) earning the higher wages & benefits causing the lettuce to double in price will have more money to spend in the ecomomy and for themselves. And your grocery budget will still not kill you.
PSE,
The New Century Foundation is a white supremecist group.
A very refined, articulate one, but still a white supremecist group.
I wouldn't trust the study that you linked to.
Eghad,
I think your solution is very sound, it gives those that are making a positive contribution to our society a chance to make themselves legal. but I disagree with building a wall. What about using the money needed to build the wall to hire more Border Patrol staff to patrol the borders? One of the common complaints you hear is that the Border Patrol doesn't have the manpower to patrol the vast border.
I seems that it would be cheaper than building and maintaining a wall of that magnitude.
The New Century Foundation is a white supremecist group.
A very refined, articulate one, but still a white supremecist group.
I wouldn't trust the study that you linked to.
Eghad,
I think your solution is very sound, it gives those that are making a positive contribution to our society a chance to make themselves legal. but I disagree with building a wall. What about using the money needed to build the wall to hire more Border Patrol staff to patrol the borders? One of the common complaints you hear is that the Border Patrol doesn't have the manpower to patrol the vast border.
I seems that it would be cheaper than building and maintaining a wall of that magnitude.
My solution has been stated on other threads but here goes again for this one:
1) Bring military home and but the on the border
2) the Minutemen project needs to keep growing
3) Build a wall/fence along the border
4) State and local official need to start arresting illegals and doing their part
5) Massive legal immigration needs to be stopped and immigration in general should probably be stopped until things get under control
6) Door to door checks on citizenship in mexican neighborhoods in a LAWFUL AND CONSTITUTIONAL manner are desperately needed.
6) Illegal alien boasters (people who shout into the camera that they are illegals) should be arrested as admitted felons
7) Illegal aliens should be made felons
8) Illegals caught in the future crossing the border and located in the country past a certain date should not just be deported but should be given 6 months to a year in prison at hard labor (now that's doing jobs American's don't want to do!) before they are deported to deter them and all from trying again
9) Employers who knowingly hire illegals for cheap labor should be fined at least and given jail time at worst
10) Work places should be checked for illegals IN A LAWFUL CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER
11) Illegals hanging around loitering waiting for work should be arrested for loitering and further investigated while they are held for the charge
12) Federal agents should home in on illegals of Mexican origin as the vast majority of them come from Mexico.
13) Greencards/Visas should not be issued to any further foreigners except reissues to those who already have them until situation is brought under control
14) NAFTA should be scrapped
15) The Mexican government should be threatened with military force if they keep supporting this invasion and demanded that they control their own side of the border. Pandering to the Mexican government must stop. All crys of "racism" "Xenophobia" and the other PC catchwords should be laughed out of court when viewing the language of the so called Reconquista movement lead by such organizations as the National Council fo La Raza (the Race).
16) Public benefits should be denied to illegals.
17) English only laws should be passed and/or enforced.
18) Children born to illegals should not make them or their parents automatically citizens of America
19) Illegals in the armed forces should be discharged and deported as mercenaries
Can these things be done easily? No. Can they be done overnight? No. Will it cost a lot of money and manpower? Yes.
It is a BIG problem. It is a mess that we closed our eyes too and has been growing for 20+ years and it will take that long to clean it up. It will take a lot of time, money and manpower. But we can't just let this happen and pretend it will be okay if we just give them anmesty and let them stay and keep coming.
These people are not the least bit interested in becoming Americans. They are Mexicans that's where they come from, that's where their loyalties lie. They are and invasion and are becoming more and more militant.
It's going to take a lot of stepping on PC toes and a lot of scaring bleeding heart liberals but it is not something that can be ignored.
It's sad that this might mean sending back someone who just wants to send money back home, but there is no one to blame but themselves for breaking the law and the PC polititians who have let this go on for 20 some odd years. Our civilization in America is at stake.
1) Bring military home and but the on the border
2) the Minutemen project needs to keep growing
3) Build a wall/fence along the border
4) State and local official need to start arresting illegals and doing their part
5) Massive legal immigration needs to be stopped and immigration in general should probably be stopped until things get under control
6) Door to door checks on citizenship in mexican neighborhoods in a LAWFUL AND CONSTITUTIONAL manner are desperately needed.
6) Illegal alien boasters (people who shout into the camera that they are illegals) should be arrested as admitted felons
7) Illegal aliens should be made felons
8) Illegals caught in the future crossing the border and located in the country past a certain date should not just be deported but should be given 6 months to a year in prison at hard labor (now that's doing jobs American's don't want to do!) before they are deported to deter them and all from trying again
9) Employers who knowingly hire illegals for cheap labor should be fined at least and given jail time at worst
10) Work places should be checked for illegals IN A LAWFUL CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER
11) Illegals hanging around loitering waiting for work should be arrested for loitering and further investigated while they are held for the charge
12) Federal agents should home in on illegals of Mexican origin as the vast majority of them come from Mexico.
13) Greencards/Visas should not be issued to any further foreigners except reissues to those who already have them until situation is brought under control
14) NAFTA should be scrapped
15) The Mexican government should be threatened with military force if they keep supporting this invasion and demanded that they control their own side of the border. Pandering to the Mexican government must stop. All crys of "racism" "Xenophobia" and the other PC catchwords should be laughed out of court when viewing the language of the so called Reconquista movement lead by such organizations as the National Council fo La Raza (the Race).
16) Public benefits should be denied to illegals.
17) English only laws should be passed and/or enforced.
18) Children born to illegals should not make them or their parents automatically citizens of America
19) Illegals in the armed forces should be discharged and deported as mercenaries
Can these things be done easily? No. Can they be done overnight? No. Will it cost a lot of money and manpower? Yes.
It is a BIG problem. It is a mess that we closed our eyes too and has been growing for 20+ years and it will take that long to clean it up. It will take a lot of time, money and manpower. But we can't just let this happen and pretend it will be okay if we just give them anmesty and let them stay and keep coming.
These people are not the least bit interested in becoming Americans. They are Mexicans that's where they come from, that's where their loyalties lie. They are and invasion and are becoming more and more militant.
It's going to take a lot of stepping on PC toes and a lot of scaring bleeding heart liberals but it is not something that can be ignored.
It's sad that this might mean sending back someone who just wants to send money back home, but there is no one to blame but themselves for breaking the law and the PC polititians who have let this go on for 20 some odd years. Our civilization in America is at stake.
Doug,
La vez ultima que comprobe, la primera enmienda no especifice ingles mientras que la unica lengua protegie. Es asombrosa como alguien que aboga la derecha de guardar y los brazos del oso puede venir para arriba con tales ideas del facist. No tomara la medida en los dedos del pie de p.c., el tomara destruir la constitucion
La vez ultima que comprobe, la primera enmienda no especifice ingles mientras que la unica lengua protegie. Es asombrosa como alguien que aboga la derecha de guardar y los brazos del oso puede venir para arriba con tales ideas del facist. No tomara la medida en los dedos del pie de p.c., el tomara destruir la constitucion
Doug,
That was a comment on #17 on your list. Are you recomending we outlaw languages other than English, or advocating English as the national language? There's a huge difference between the two.
My comment states how the First Amendment says nothing about applying to English only. Who is hurting if someone refuses to learn English? As I see it, that only hurts the person who refuses to learn English.
That was a comment on #17 on your list. Are you recomending we outlaw languages other than English, or advocating English as the national language? There's a huge difference between the two.
My comment states how the First Amendment says nothing about applying to English only. Who is hurting if someone refuses to learn English? As I see it, that only hurts the person who refuses to learn English.
I am advocating English as the national language in all our institutions, contracts, business dealings, schools and other circles of society. If someone wants to learn another language, that's not illegal or wrong. But they must know and speak the native language of the land they live in. That's just common sense.
It hurts everyone when 11 million foreign people transplanted among another culture don't speak it. As a Chinese decended neighbor of mine put it to me once when speaking of all the different dialects China has "It creates confusion and confusion creates conflict."
The Consitution applys to citizens of the United States. Illegals are non citizens. And even they consider themselves Mexican (or Cuban or Central American et al) rather than Americans.
The very language the Consitution is written in is English.
"The Consitution applys to citizens of the United States."
seeing as we were all immigrants at the time what does citizen mean?
do you like the declaration if independence?
how about this little part?
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
that apply to Natural born Americans as well?
You cannot belive in American and not want people looking for a better life to flood the borders. Thats what we are about. Now if that interferes w/ your social class or race being the majority you want to change it. thats not how it works.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
how many of your greatgrandparents came here w.o work visas. how many of you irish americans had great great grandparents to slave building the railroads alongside the chinese.
WHO THE F ARE YOU TO SAY NO MORE!
seeing as we were all immigrants at the time what does citizen mean?
do you like the declaration if independence?
how about this little part?
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
that apply to Natural born Americans as well?
You cannot belive in American and not want people looking for a better life to flood the borders. Thats what we are about. Now if that interferes w/ your social class or race being the majority you want to change it. thats not how it works.
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
how many of your greatgrandparents came here w.o work visas. how many of you irish americans had great great grandparents to slave building the railroads alongside the chinese.
WHO THE F ARE YOU TO SAY NO MORE!
PSE, while I don't agree with much of what you say, this is a case where I do.
The Constitution applies to all who are on US soil. All. There is no differentiation between citizens and non-citizens. It is one of the best points about our land.
As far as immigration itself goes, the laws governing such have always been political in nature.
The Constitution applies to all who are on US soil. All. There is no differentiation between citizens and non-citizens. It is one of the best points about our land.
As far as immigration itself goes, the laws governing such have always been political in nature.
Solution Is Simple
Cut demand, or job offers for these people and they will self-deport. But it takes a set of balls to enforce EXISTING immigration laws that penalize the illegal hiring of these people. If they can't not get a driver's license, a SS card and everytime they apply for a job they get checked with DHS for papers, they will go back from where they came from at no COST to society.
Know the problem before you talk about it.
Marranos
Cut demand, or job offers for these people and they will self-deport. But it takes a set of balls to enforce EXISTING immigration laws that penalize the illegal hiring of these people. If they can't not get a driver's license, a SS card and everytime they apply for a job they get checked with DHS for papers, they will go back from where they came from at no COST to society.
Know the problem before you talk about it.
Marranos
BonnieBlue
New member
We were not founded as a nation of immigrants but a UNION of colonists. The "nation" jazz was exactly what the American War for Independence was against--the English insistence on worldy empire. As for immigrants, only those were welcome who were native to the colonies or in the absence of that, the willingness to assimilate. The immigrant flood was a way for the north to get cheap labor in the wake of the northern industrial revolution.
Of course few, in the last hundred years, or so, understand this, as they have been saturated with this commie horse dung about "give us your tired, your sick, or whatever ad nauseum..." As far as I'm concerned I'd let the damn French have that stupid statue back.
Of course few, in the last hundred years, or so, understand this, as they have been saturated with this commie horse dung about "give us your tired, your sick, or whatever ad nauseum..." As far as I'm concerned I'd let the damn French have that stupid statue back.
Lots of ideas
Lots of ideas, some good, some ?
How do we go about getting these things implemented? We (those who wish to curtail illegal immigration) do have a powerful force wroking against us.
Greed.
Also there are large numbers of ethnically hispanic US citizens, who actively support "open borders". Their voice does carry some weight.
Lots of ideas, let's just look at this one (for now)
"English only" should apply to all official documents and legal contracts. Any situation where the individual has to communicate with the government, and vice versa. English, is perhaps, the most cosmopolitan language, full of "loan words", and phrases from many other languages. English is the international language of aviation. And, while not the simplest language, it is not the most difficult either.
When I visit another country I try to learn enough of the language for my needs. If they are willing to accomodate me with English, so much the better for me, but I certainly have no right to demand that they do so. I can think of few things more rude than demanding that the inhabitants of a soverign nation speak your language, rather than their own.
Your right to freedom of speech does preclude the government forcing you to speak a particular language. By the same token, it also precludes you forcing the government (or the people in government) from speaking your language. If they do, it should be because they are trying to be nice, and not because they are forced to.
Thoughts ?, comments?, (in English, please.
)
Lots of ideas, some good, some ?
How do we go about getting these things implemented? We (those who wish to curtail illegal immigration) do have a powerful force wroking against us.
Greed.
Also there are large numbers of ethnically hispanic US citizens, who actively support "open borders". Their voice does carry some weight.
Lots of ideas, let's just look at this one (for now)
"English only" should apply to all official documents and legal contracts. Any situation where the individual has to communicate with the government, and vice versa. English, is perhaps, the most cosmopolitan language, full of "loan words", and phrases from many other languages. English is the international language of aviation. And, while not the simplest language, it is not the most difficult either.
When I visit another country I try to learn enough of the language for my needs. If they are willing to accomodate me with English, so much the better for me, but I certainly have no right to demand that they do so. I can think of few things more rude than demanding that the inhabitants of a soverign nation speak your language, rather than their own.
Your right to freedom of speech does preclude the government forcing you to speak a particular language. By the same token, it also precludes you forcing the government (or the people in government) from speaking your language. If they do, it should be because they are trying to be nice, and not because they are forced to.
Thoughts ?, comments?, (in English, please.
)ShowMeState1977
New member
BonnieBlue said...
"We were not founded as a nation of immigrants but a UNION of colonists. The "nation" jazz was exactly what the American War for Independence was against--the English insistence on worldy empire. As for immigrants, only those were welcome who were native to the colonies or in the absence of that, the willingness to assimilate. The immigrant flood was a way for the north to get cheap labor in the wake of the northern industrial revolution.
Of course few, in the last hundred years, or so, understand this, as they have been saturated with this commie horse dung about "give us your tired, your sick, or whatever ad nauseum..." As far as I'm concerned I'd let the damn French have that stupid statue back."
+1!
"We were not founded as a nation of immigrants but a UNION of colonists. The "nation" jazz was exactly what the American War for Independence was against--the English insistence on worldy empire. As for immigrants, only those were welcome who were native to the colonies or in the absence of that, the willingness to assimilate. The immigrant flood was a way for the north to get cheap labor in the wake of the northern industrial revolution.
Of course few, in the last hundred years, or so, understand this, as they have been saturated with this commie horse dung about "give us your tired, your sick, or whatever ad nauseum..." As far as I'm concerned I'd let the damn French have that stupid statue back."
+1!
PSE a crime is a crime is a crime...no matter the race of the person who does it nor the location of it.
which means that an illegal immigrant has commited a crime
If you read my post I am not opposed to giving illegal immigrants citizenship if they are productive people. I am opposed to blanket amnesty. We need a method to weed the bad illegals from the good ones.
I am not opposed to worker permits for them if they have an employer who hires them and is obeying applicable labor laws. The situation where they are here illegaly puts them in a situation that can lead to potential abuse of these folks.
What I am opposed to is an open border where property owners are forced to live in fear and anybody can cross at will.
which means that an illegal immigrant has commited a crime
If you read my post I am not opposed to giving illegal immigrants citizenship if they are productive people. I am opposed to blanket amnesty. We need a method to weed the bad illegals from the good ones.
I am not opposed to worker permits for them if they have an employer who hires them and is obeying applicable labor laws. The situation where they are here illegaly puts them in a situation that can lead to potential abuse of these folks.
What I am opposed to is an open border where property owners are forced to live in fear and anybody can cross at will.
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