Immigration Solution? (merged threads)

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okie and mthalo, this is NOT a race issue. Further more, the illegal alien issue has been alive and well for a long time. It has festered into an infected wound and now needs some serious attention. It did not happen all of a sudden.

No one has displayed hate, and mthalo, be careful how you toss the hate card around.
 
Wait a sec, you're implying that a well organized band of mexican's has taken over california and is eyeing the rest of country. But more ammo, we're at war...etc etc etc. Sure, that's not hatemongering, that simply advocating the purchase of ammunition with the prospect of violence against a largly nonviolent people. If something needs to be hated or dealth with in a nearviolent manner, is it not our dealing with our leaders? Damn ants...
 
Perhaps you could share that with some Native Americans (the offspring of those that the white people didn't massacre). Their view is quite a bit different that yours.

Really? As a decendent of Amerinds(mix in some German{legal} and Irish{legal}) I am free to say I amphatically do NOT disagree with what he said. I am much happier living in the woods with my semi-modern home and semi-modern firearms and bathroom and such than I would be living in the same woods with a half-assed fire for heat, a half-assed bow for hunting and having to crap in a hole in the ground...if I'm lucky...only to wind up dead in my mid-30's(hmmm, that would mean I would be speaking to you from beyond the grave right now...).

Our laws are only as good as their enforcement.

We can at least agree here.

Laws that are not or cannot be enforced are impractical and unrealistic.

This statement is illogical, built upon separate issues with separate results and solutions. Laws that are not enforced are not necessarily impractical, unrealistic or unenforceable. They are simply unenforced. The first solution is to actually try to enforce them. THEN we can move on to the next aspect of your claim, regarding their applicability.

Our immigration laws aren't enforcable and that is our problem.

No, they are simply not enforced(see above). THAT is and has been our problem. It's a totally different thing from your position, which you have created apparently to redefine the argument since actually arguing the real situation would leave you with...ummm...no position....

Blaming illiterate, hungry people for our own inability to enforce our laws is not going to solve our immigration problem.

OK, so when a bunch of street bums break in to your home and use up your food and trash your furniture and wreck your car and the local LEO refuses to do anything about it you are going to blame the LEO only and say nothing about the bums camped in your kitchen drinking the last of your beer?

It's not their fault, right?
 
Wait a sec, you're implying that a well organized band of mexican's has taken over california and is eyeing the rest of country.

Why do the defenders of the Invaders always redefine what has been said? Oh, yes, as I said above, if not they'd have no position.

Nobody said they were well organized. Even now they are only semi-organized. Wasn't even implied, in fact. But they DO have massive numnbers and with numbers comes influence, by intimidation if nothing else.

But more ammo, we're at war...etc etc etc. Sure, that's not hatemongering,

You buy ammo to protect your home. Is that hate mongering when the guy that finally does come thru your window happens to be black? Or does it REMAIN having prepared for a possible eventuality. The answer is obvious.

that simply advocating the purchase of ammunition with the prospect of violence against a largly nonviolent people.

Depends. If your non-violent people remain non-violent, especially when we enforce our laws against those among them who have violated them, then you have no point. OTOH, if those people become violent, and they are unarguably showing the signs of such a potentiality, then you STILL have no point.

If something needs to be hated or dealth with in a nearviolent manner, is it not our dealing with our leaders?

No reason to hate them, either, yet. Simply replace them with people who will enforce the law and thus remove the current swarm of Illegals and limit the number of new ones as much as possible. Meanwhile, it would be nice if some of you would actually focus on the problem and stop trying to derail things by throwing in non-issues like your fixation on race and motivation.

The Illegals are criminals and we want the laws enforced and we are prepared to take care of ourselves if such enforcement results in violence on THEIR part. That defines the argument. If you leave that confine then you are off topic. Wrap your minds around it.
 
okie and mthalo, this is NOT a race issue.
Carbiner, read the post on what I was commenting on, and you'll realize I wasn't even commenting on the ILLEGAL ALIEN issue. I was commenting on someone elses race related comment. And if you wish to deny that the White man was guilty of genocide in their treatment of the Native American populations, by all means do so.


I'd just about rather put on a loincloth

I've wanted to do that myself, but I was at Wal-Mart the other day, and they didn't have one loincloth there that was even big enough to cover my somewhat modest loins.

I think they were all made in China, too.
 
Ned,

"_____This statement is illogical, built upon separate issues with separate results and solutions. __"
"_____No, they are simply not enforced(see above).__"

Immigration laws are not being enforced because our immigration system is under funded so our immigration laws are impractical and unrealistic.
 
Illogical. How do you get impractical and unrealistic from lack-luster political performance regarding funding? Your statement lacks any logic at all. It also blatantly ignores everything else said...
 
If the laws against murder were A)not enforced or B)underfunded, would that make those laws "impractical and unrealistic" also? That is the logic being used here by you, okiejack.

As stated by carbiner in post #25, the problem has been long in coming. Once again, a problem has festered because of the unbridled greed of money. This seems to be a recurring theme to many of the ills that beset our country.

I don't have a realistic answer to the problem without restricting Capitalism... The very thing that has made this country great is now destroying us. What is the answer? Can restrictive controls be placed on unbridled capitalism without destroying the basis of our wealth?

It seems that everyone is tapdancing around the problem. Simply saying we have a problem is not helpful in discovering the solution. The problem must be defined before an adequate solution can be arrived at.

The original post assumes that the only thing we can do at this point is to fight. The implication is that violence will be used. I submit, that this is not yet the case, nor is it a real solution. What I have failed to see on this and other boards, is the rational discussion of how we got to this point - the problem definition.

Part of this rational discussion must include the viewpoint of many, that don't see what is happening as a problem at all. I don't share that view, but still, many hold it. Unless we came come together to mutually discuss this issue, we will continue to have threads, like this, wherein we are simply shouting past each other. Nothing will be resolved.

We cannot expect the "powers that be" to come to a solution, if we ourselves are so divided.

To this end, I am merging the "Wake Up America" thread with the "Immigration Solution" thread.
 
Hmmmmm?

"_____If the laws against murder were A)not enforced or B)underfunded, would that make those laws "impractical and unrealistic" also? That is the logic being used here by you, okiejack.__"

Of what practical application and how realistic is a law against murder that is not enforced due to lack of funding?

Our immigration laws are impractical and unrealistic because we don't fund their enforcement. You can write all the laws you want but unless you fund their enforcement? Those laws are impractical, unrealistic, and useless.

The problem is that we don't enforce our immigratiion laws. We don't enforce our immigration laws by not adequately funding their enforcement.
 
This:

The problem is that we don't enforce our immigratiion laws. We don't enforce our immigration laws by not adequately funding their enforcement.

Is correct. The rest of this:

Our immigration laws are impractical and unrealistic because we don't fund their enforcement. You can write all the laws you want but unless you fund their enforcement? Those laws are impractical, unrealistic, and useless.

Makes no sense whatsoever. An unfunded/unenforced law is an unknown quantity. We don't know their practicality UNTIL we fund and enforce them as they were designed to be. You've plainly stated you understand the lack of funding part so maybe you just don't know the proper definitions of the words you are using.

Of what practical application and how realistic is a law against murder that is not enforced due to lack of funding?

We can't answer that question until we enforce and fund them. THEN we'll know the answer.
 
Ok

If we want our immigration laws enforced more effectively? We will have to pay more taxes or rob from another program to cover the additional expense.

Arguing? No just trying to explain my self.
 
No need for more taxes. Simply take funding from one or several extra-constitutional government boondoggles. Immigration IS a legitimate area of control for FedGov, unlike most everything else it is involved in. The money wasted on New Orleans, for example...
 
Blacks upset.....

Haven't got all the details but was kind of surprised to find that many black folks here in Southern California are also quite upset with the current state of affairs as it relates to illegal immigration.
I guess I had assumed they would have stood with the open borders groups!
I was wrong.
 
My solution.....

no blanket amnesty..nada...zero

#1 have illegal immigrants fill out applications while granting them a temporary stay of deportation.

# 2 On that application if they have a steady job and are productive members of the community and have no criminal record give them a probation period after that period they get to become citizens.

# 3 If they are not productive members of the community and have been engaged in illegal or unethical activities...deported

#4 If they are willing to enlist in the Armed Forces..fast track to citizenship

#5 the Wall between Mexico and the United States must be built and detection equipment installed and properly manned. The Mexican Government has shown itself to have no motivation to control its side of the border. We must do so for national security in the future and to control illegal immigration.

Since this is a large task maybe we should give the corporations a probationary period to ensure that all workers recieve the probation period in #2 if they meet #3 they are deported and the company must not hire them back in the future..if they do maybe criminal punishment for the corporate officers and stiff fines. If the meet #2 they should be put on minum wage for that field of work....fill out all the necessary forms for income tax, SS tax and medicare tax and if the company has a 401K or medical health care they get that also.

If they are hard working hungry folks and productive members of the community and are willing to pay taxes keep em. I think this is as close to a compromise as we can get to ensure we get good folks and save the taxpayers a bunch of money.
 
i cant wait till there all gone.
i soooo want to pick my own beans.
of couse blacks are angry. the biggest racial problem i ever saw was when i lived in S FL. The black american HATED the black islanders. Why. becuse the dominicans and hatians would work ANY job.
 
So the poor folks who live along the border and get raped, robbed, vandalized and thier places junked and are American citizens have no rights when it comes to illegal immigrations and border crossings PSE?

The rights of the few are alo protected in this country.
 
I believe US Law still says that anyone born in the USA is a citizen of the USA. What would be done with the American Citizen children?
 
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