I'm SO SICK of this illegal alien situation!
- Thread starter DasBoot
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Wildalaska
Moderator
guess thats why we differ...I dont view the US as "english culture"...
WilditshmongchinesespanishjewishrussiangermanpolishirishlaothaiafricanAlaska
Wildalaska
Moderator
I'm not denying the English roots of our culture, but American culture is not English culture...
It's unique, more so than any other culture in the world....and I dont see a common language as the defining unifying force of the culture, rather, i'ts the fact that all Americans are united in a desire for freedom AND economic self worth....this is the Golden Mountain...and every immigrant knows that the way to do that is to enculturate, including linguistically, with American culture as it exists.
By the same token, where, as here in the US, there are large numbers of beginning English speakers, it only makes ECONOMIC common sense to use other than english both in terms of delivery of goods and servies, but as a means to allow the immigrant to ease into our culture from theirs.
WildeverbeentosandiegoAlaska
It's unique, more so than any other culture in the world....and I dont see a common language as the defining unifying force of the culture, rather, i'ts the fact that all Americans are united in a desire for freedom AND economic self worth....this is the Golden Mountain...and every immigrant knows that the way to do that is to enculturate, including linguistically, with American culture as it exists.
By the same token, where, as here in the US, there are large numbers of beginning English speakers, it only makes ECONOMIC common sense to use other than english both in terms of delivery of goods and servies, but as a means to allow the immigrant to ease into our culture from theirs.
WildeverbeentosandiegoAlaska
I don't know what you mean by "English culture".
Our country was founded on English principles and has evolved from there.
We do not have the same culture as England, but America initially grew from English culture.
It took on a life of it's own from there.
It's not the "defining" force but obviously there has to be a unified means of communication, both written and verbal.
In America, that happens to be ENGLISH.
Just like we couldn't function efficiently with 15 different forms of currancy.
Just as our monetary system is based around the dollar, our way of communicating is based on English.
It has nothing to do with what immigrants want, or our needs, or the beauty of the melting pot, blah, blah, blah.
United in anything means standing as one.
Trying to communicate in 10 different languages does not make for unification.
Does the Tower of Babel mean anything to you?
Having been an English teacher (to Asians) in NY, I applaud their hard work.I also know that the best way to truly absorb the language is to be forced to utilize it.
Why bother if the signs are in your native tongue?
How on earth did the millions of immigrants do it for the last 300 yrs?
How did my parents do it?
By hard work and a desire to become "American".
And part of that process is speaking English, like it or not.
While I'm sure your heart is in the right place, stop coddling and making excuses.
Ask your wife how prevalent American signage is in Japan.
Do Americans living in Japan demonstrate in the streets with demands to change the language tp make it easier for Enlish speakers?
I doubt it.
WeedWacker
New member
From what I understand, if you are in an international airport you will find signs in english, spanish, and japanese as well as the local lingo. In Japan, you will actually find english in the larger cities, such as Tokyo, partly because of students there who are required to learn english as a business language. And also the thing about Japan is it's such a small Island country with a high population and low work demand that many people need to leave Japan to find work. Unemployment is high, and due to this the suicide rate is high as well (The eventual effect of overpopulation IMO) That is why we need restrictions. The whole issue should be the fact that in coming into the country illegally they broke laws, laws that are designed to protect from terrorists and illegal trade, such as slaves (A recent slave line was broken up in Washington state)
The whole reason I say "terrorists" is not becaus I think Mexicans pose a threat so much as it is a chink in our armor that provides for easy access since it is fairly easy to get supplies for attacks in to Mexico and subsequently into America. (off topic. getting back)
The whole thing about illegals is that they are illegal. And as someone who broke the law they do not get special priveleges. In America, if you break the law and are arrestsd and put in jail, it is because you have broken trust and have misused your freedom (IMO it should be completely taken away, i.e. no TV or certain commodities) The illegals shouldn't actually have any constitutional rights since they have broken laws (even tho some court judge said that constitutional rights were to be extended to non-citizens)
Our laws were earned by ancestors who did come here from somewhere else, but all those in my family did so legally within the last 150 years (none came through New York, all through Canada, one of which was adopted by an American family and eventually became a citizen) But they earned it by taking the long process instead of cutting in line and jumping into a citizen-like status through mass numbers.
Besides, if we bend to them we will have to bend to the Hawaiians who want to secede from the US. then it will be the Mexican illegals/mexico who want Texas and southern US back, then the Asians in california and southern Oregon... It will go on and on. Maybe even the black community will want a section of woutheastern US for thier own country or somthing. (Drastic worst case scenarios)
The whole reason I say "terrorists" is not becaus I think Mexicans pose a threat so much as it is a chink in our armor that provides for easy access since it is fairly easy to get supplies for attacks in to Mexico and subsequently into America. (off topic. getting back)
The whole thing about illegals is that they are illegal. And as someone who broke the law they do not get special priveleges. In America, if you break the law and are arrestsd and put in jail, it is because you have broken trust and have misused your freedom (IMO it should be completely taken away, i.e. no TV or certain commodities) The illegals shouldn't actually have any constitutional rights since they have broken laws (even tho some court judge said that constitutional rights were to be extended to non-citizens)
Our laws were earned by ancestors who did come here from somewhere else, but all those in my family did so legally within the last 150 years (none came through New York, all through Canada, one of which was adopted by an American family and eventually became a citizen) But they earned it by taking the long process instead of cutting in line and jumping into a citizen-like status through mass numbers.
Besides, if we bend to them we will have to bend to the Hawaiians who want to secede from the US. then it will be the Mexican illegals/mexico who want Texas and southern US back, then the Asians in california and southern Oregon... It will go on and on. Maybe even the black community will want a section of woutheastern US for thier own country or somthing. (Drastic worst case scenarios)
It is utterly amazing that, in todays state of "Terrorist Awareness", a target country like the USA would not have it's borders so tight a cat couldn't sneak across!
Especially after 9/11!
I have become so disenchanted and demoralized with this president, the Republican party, many local governments and our politicians.
Where is the voice of reason regarding this border issue?
I don't hear it from anyone!!!
I can't believe what I'm NOT hearing!!!!!!
Especially after 9/11!
I have become so disenchanted and demoralized with this president, the Republican party, many local governments and our politicians.
Where is the voice of reason regarding this border issue?
I don't hear it from anyone!!!
I can't believe what I'm NOT hearing!!!!!!
This video says it all, make sure that your speakers are on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h-uhoCmyH8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h-uhoCmyH8
WeedWacker
New member
like that one politician lady from New York (darnit can't remember her name and I don't feel like looking it up) using a tragedy as a way to get ahead.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
RACIST!!!!11
Just kidding.
As to people who come to America, live here for years while working; learn English. If I went to Mexico or Japan and lived there for years without learning their language well enough to carry on normal conversations, understand signs and work as the order taker in a fast food restaurant, I would expect to be laughed at... and kicked out if the country had any sense.
But....
Principles are pointless in this case, its purely a matter of practicality. Central America is a cheap source of good unskilled labor, this means that either the products we buy will be cheaper or the companies will make more profit. Now there are so many here, citizens or not, illegal or not, its simply practical to have some signs and important goings on like legal documents in Spanish. It was easier then making them learn English.
It seems to me its just the way of the world.
Just keep them off of Social Security, as it stands right now we would have to raise taxes by 90 percent just to keep the program working for the next 10-20 years.
Clem,
THAT"S ME!!
THAT"S ME MAN!!!
I speak up ALL THE TIME when I encounter that sort of thing.
ANd more than once I've had someone tell me how happy they were that someone said/did something.
That is one BEAUTIFUL video!!
If more people spoke up when crap like that happens the a-holes might think twice before being rude or thoughtless to the rest of us.
I enjoyed that!
Thanks!
(I'm gonna watch it again!)
THAT"S ME!!
THAT"S ME MAN!!!
I speak up ALL THE TIME when I encounter that sort of thing.
ANd more than once I've had someone tell me how happy they were that someone said/did something.
That is one BEAUTIFUL video!!
If more people spoke up when crap like that happens the a-holes might think twice before being rude or thoughtless to the rest of us.
I enjoyed that!
Thanks!
(I'm gonna watch it again!)
Free medical care!
Free tuition!
Drivers licences?
Now credit cards!?!?!
Let's not forget the propaganda slogans such as;
"Just doing the jobs Americans are not doing"
"The U.S has a shortage of workers at all skill levels"
"Illegal immigrants are just trying to feed their families"
"Undocumented workers....."
These illegals can work for low wages because they don't pay for health and day care, food, housing, education, energy, etc. This allows them to send nearly every dime that they make back to their country of origin. While the rest is often spent on lottery tickets, over priced clothing, expensive rims and tires, and many other non essential items etc. This all adds up to big money for a growing number companies which, in many cases, have welfare recipients on both sides of the counter. This nonsense began in 1986 when both political parties voted to give illegal immigrants free services.
We also have a media that promotes the above propaganda due to the fact that they make money from the very companies that are profiting from this illegal activity. Yet the media never mentions that fact that most other countries do not tolerate illegal immigrants and certainly do not give them the free services listed above. This is particularly true in Mexico.
The sad thing is that this nonsense will continue as long as we allow the lobby industry to "bribe" our politicians with donations. The funny part about this is that our politicians had none of this nonsense in their day! Besides, how long do you think this racket would last if/when illegals start to run for political office?
P.S. My extended family is of American Indian, Austrian, British, Danish, German, Mexican, and Russian heritage.
Free tuition!
Drivers licences?
Now credit cards!?!?!
Let's not forget the propaganda slogans such as;
"Just doing the jobs Americans are not doing"
"The U.S has a shortage of workers at all skill levels"
"Illegal immigrants are just trying to feed their families"
"Undocumented workers....."
These illegals can work for low wages because they don't pay for health and day care, food, housing, education, energy, etc. This allows them to send nearly every dime that they make back to their country of origin. While the rest is often spent on lottery tickets, over priced clothing, expensive rims and tires, and many other non essential items etc. This all adds up to big money for a growing number companies which, in many cases, have welfare recipients on both sides of the counter. This nonsense began in 1986 when both political parties voted to give illegal immigrants free services.
We also have a media that promotes the above propaganda due to the fact that they make money from the very companies that are profiting from this illegal activity. Yet the media never mentions that fact that most other countries do not tolerate illegal immigrants and certainly do not give them the free services listed above. This is particularly true in Mexico.
The sad thing is that this nonsense will continue as long as we allow the lobby industry to "bribe" our politicians with donations. The funny part about this is that our politicians had none of this nonsense in their day! Besides, how long do you think this racket would last if/when illegals start to run for political office?
P.S. My extended family is of American Indian, Austrian, British, Danish, German, Mexican, and Russian heritage.
illegal aliens
Trespassers. Stealing our way of life. Granted for free all the things we work for all our lives. Free food, free housing, free driving license, free medical, free schooling. What else can we give them? Would be a shame for them to miss out on any benifits that most of us don't have.
Trespassers. Stealing our way of life. Granted for free all the things we work for all our lives. Free food, free housing, free driving license, free medical, free schooling. What else can we give them? Would be a shame for them to miss out on any benifits that most of us don't have.
WeedWacker
New member
How about a free Limo like our politicians who think that they are unreplaceable.
Some reality needs to be injected here...
1) Previous waves of immigrants didn't assimilate any faster than Latin immgrants are doing now. Up through at least the 1960s, there were neighborhoods in New York where Italian, or Yiddish, or Russian, were the dominant language. Ditto Chinese and Japanese for West Coast cities. This is a generational process, and it's one that's happening right now with the Latin wave. It just takes time, and no attempt to hurry it up has ever been successful.
2) Crossing the border illegally is, currently, about as illegal as speeding. It's a civil infraction, not even a misdemeanor. That should be changed, sure, but that's the way it is.
3) Illegal immigrants aren't doing jobs Americans won't do. They're working for wages Americans won't accept. And guess what? We the consumers aren't even saving money on the deal. Look at the meat packing industry. Avreage wages have fallen to a third of what they were in the 1970's, when those jobs were all well-paid, full-benefit, union jobs. Now, after breaking the unions in the 1980's, an event which many here would have cheered, the companies have imported illegal workers from Mexico and points South, the Americans were replaced by workers who make far, far less, and get no benefits. Yet I haven't noticed the price of hot dogs falling lately.
4) Mexico needs to get it's economic act together. If they could end the kleptocracy, put their people to work at decent wages, and stop exporting their social problems rather than dealing with them, it'd help enormously. But we can't make that happen, so we have to work the problem from our side of the border.
If you really wanted to solve the problem, take the billions of dollars for border fences, and spend it prosecuting employers who hire these people. Empower the Border Patrol to raid restaurants, construction sites, farmer fields, whatever. Back it up with an immediate corporate "death penalty" for hiring illegal workers, and prison time for the executives of the corporations. I'm serious. Hire one undocumented worker, and your corporate charter, business license, all of the documentation which allows you to operate is immediately and permanently revoked, protections of incorporation removed, and the members of the Board of Directors must repay, from their own pockets, that portion of corporate profits derived from the wage differential, before they head off to Federal prison. Provide an easy way for companies to verify documents, and punish the hell out of them if they don't use it. Hiring of illegal workers would stop overnight.
If you don't hire them, they won't come.
--Shannon
1) Previous waves of immigrants didn't assimilate any faster than Latin immgrants are doing now. Up through at least the 1960s, there were neighborhoods in New York where Italian, or Yiddish, or Russian, were the dominant language. Ditto Chinese and Japanese for West Coast cities. This is a generational process, and it's one that's happening right now with the Latin wave. It just takes time, and no attempt to hurry it up has ever been successful.
2) Crossing the border illegally is, currently, about as illegal as speeding. It's a civil infraction, not even a misdemeanor. That should be changed, sure, but that's the way it is.
3) Illegal immigrants aren't doing jobs Americans won't do. They're working for wages Americans won't accept. And guess what? We the consumers aren't even saving money on the deal. Look at the meat packing industry. Avreage wages have fallen to a third of what they were in the 1970's, when those jobs were all well-paid, full-benefit, union jobs. Now, after breaking the unions in the 1980's, an event which many here would have cheered, the companies have imported illegal workers from Mexico and points South, the Americans were replaced by workers who make far, far less, and get no benefits. Yet I haven't noticed the price of hot dogs falling lately.
4) Mexico needs to get it's economic act together. If they could end the kleptocracy, put their people to work at decent wages, and stop exporting their social problems rather than dealing with them, it'd help enormously. But we can't make that happen, so we have to work the problem from our side of the border.
If you really wanted to solve the problem, take the billions of dollars for border fences, and spend it prosecuting employers who hire these people. Empower the Border Patrol to raid restaurants, construction sites, farmer fields, whatever. Back it up with an immediate corporate "death penalty" for hiring illegal workers, and prison time for the executives of the corporations. I'm serious. Hire one undocumented worker, and your corporate charter, business license, all of the documentation which allows you to operate is immediately and permanently revoked, protections of incorporation removed, and the members of the Board of Directors must repay, from their own pockets, that portion of corporate profits derived from the wage differential, before they head off to Federal prison. Provide an easy way for companies to verify documents, and punish the hell out of them if they don't use it. Hiring of illegal workers would stop overnight.
If you don't hire them, they won't come.
--Shannon
Optical Serenity
New member
There is nothing worse than me walking into a Bank of America :barf: and them assuming I speak spanish when I go to the teller.
Every single time that happens, and I don't look spanish!
I have no problem with a business wanting to help their customers, but I do have a problem with them assuming everyone should speak spanish and then giving out credit cards to them.
Every single time that happens, and I don't look spanish!
I have no problem with a business wanting to help their customers, but I do have a problem with them assuming everyone should speak spanish and then giving out credit cards to them.
WeedWacker
New member
Does everyone agree here that the real problem is law breaking? I mean I
have no problem with a worker from mexico or canada coming over the border LEGALLY and
having a job, but if they are "undocumented" and here taking up space and
haven't followed all the other rules that the legals took it seems that they
don't really deserve to get benefits before completing the process. Some
illegals are criminals and as such would not be allowed here legally. The whole
process is what keeps them out and by letting them in and giving benefits it
encourages more illegals to cross over, some of them criminals trying to stick
it to the system and get out of whatever they did scot free. If they did
somthing bad enough that they need to flee the country I wouldn't want
them anywhere near me since humans being creatures of habit this illegal
may decide to try his illegal actions again.
have no problem with a worker from mexico or canada coming over the border LEGALLY and
having a job, but if they are "undocumented" and here taking up space and
haven't followed all the other rules that the legals took it seems that they
don't really deserve to get benefits before completing the process. Some
illegals are criminals and as such would not be allowed here legally. The whole
process is what keeps them out and by letting them in and giving benefits it
encourages more illegals to cross over, some of them criminals trying to stick
it to the system and get out of whatever they did scot free. If they did
somthing bad enough that they need to flee the country I wouldn't want
them anywhere near me since humans being creatures of habit this illegal
may decide to try his illegal actions again.
kennybs plbg
New member
"Doing the crimes Americans won't do" --
27% of Federal prisoners are illegal aliens
I borrowed this saying from another site, it fits into the discussion so well here.
kenny b
27% of Federal prisoners are illegal aliens
I borrowed this saying from another site, it fits into the discussion so well here.
kenny b
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