I'm not afraid of terrorists.

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yet on the other end of the spectrum you've got mr. Frist, mr delay, ashcroft, wolfowitz, and others. My solution is we stand together in the middle, independent from traditional 2 party politics and piss upon ALL of them. More people should start having the cojones to run for something.
 
I support the Bill of Rights and the intent behind it. The BOR discusses many freedoms. Show me in the BOR where it says that my conversations cannot be listened to by the Government. Afterall, I don't honestly think any of us feel that we have a true expectation of real privacy when speaking to anyone over the phone, airwaves, etc.

The only people that should be concerned with the government listening to his/her conversations are people that intend to do something illegal. That, to me, is a small tradeoff for the legitimate protections that it offers. We aren't talking about taking away gun rights as a "feel good" measure. We're talking about true detective work to prevent REAL disasters on the magnitude of 9/11 or greater. Let me remind naysayers the devestation of 9/11. It was the worst attack agaist the US on US soil; worse than even Pearl Harbor because it was targeted at civilians and our economy. It significantly contributed to an economic disaster that our country still hasn't truly recovered from. It affected us in so many aweful ways. I'll gladly let Big Brother listen to my unexciting conversations to prevent this from happening again. I'm not plotting anything diabolical.

I don't know of any cases were the Patriot Act, which by the way was voted in twice by Congress, not some Totalitarian Regime, has been abused. But there are countless, probably hundreds of terrorist plots that have been foiled because of our aggressive persuit of terrorists.

Finally, and this is truly fascinating, liberals want to blame Bush for everything. He takes the blame for 9/11 (which truly resulted from the lax attitudes of the Clinton Admin.) and for not being more aggressive. Yet his hands would have been tied had he tried pre-emptive action in a pre-9/11 world. Then, post 9/11, he is viewed as declaring illegal preemptive wars and as a war monger and steal our rights! Give me a break.

How many terrorist acts have we had here since 9/11? Zero. I'd like to continue the trend. How many other nations have been attacked? Let's see, England, Spain, France to name a few. Must be something is working.

As far as your implication that the whole terrorism threat is make-believe, I don't know what anyone could possibly say to persuade you otherwise than open a newspaper or turn on the news.

While sort of unrelated, how many States have increased their citizens rights to carry concealed? Many, including my state of Colorado.

BTW, I also commend you for your service to our nation despite our disagreements on this point.
 
Believe me! Im not too happy with Bush right now:mad:

On the other hand, its not a suprise to get stabbed in the back by any politician. But, the people have got to get up off their lazy @$$e$ and DO SOMETHING!

Oh, honey, can we just cuddle on the couch and space out watching American Idol tonight? No hun bun we can't, They shut our cable service off because we had to pay our increased propety taxes and fill our massive SUV with gas.

I mean come on, does it not seem like this is typical America at times?
 
I would have to agree with GoSlash. I am more afraid of our government than the terrorists right now. Their is no end to their lies and corruption.

I honestly think that if Adolf Hitler ran as a republican against any democrat in 2008 that he would get 30% of the vote from all the one issue idiots. I can see the talking points now "Hitler's against gay marriage, against welfare and most importantly against gun control." If he lies and says he's a Christian he just might win the election.

I believe that the candidate is more important than the party, but at the same time if the party in power has incident after incident of abusing their power then they need to be voted out. The country runs best when we have a split of power. As soon as one party controls the house, senate and presidency the corruption starts!
 
Sorry go slash...

I havn't had a ton of time to get on here and read your crazy BS lately. Anyways, are you serious? It looks to me like you need to spend more time learning how to spell and less time worrying about the government. You spell like the Beverly Hillbillies!:rolleyes:
 
There are things that I disagree with in the Bush administration, but there are also many I agree with that would of had no chance under a democratic administration. Being on a gun related forum I'm sure you are aware of many of them, so lets give a little credit where its due.

kenny b
 
Savage,
Wow! What a creative non-answer! Do me a favor: next time you have a thought.....let it go.

I also like how we're throwing around the context of 'abuse', as if it's okay to violate the Bill of Rights so long as nobody's abusing the privelige.
I say that violations *are* abuse.
 
leadcounsel, Although i'm sure any potential terrorists are not suprised at the though of having their conversations listened to, the issue over wiretaps was really over congress removing the check of judicial review from the executive branch. Even if they're not abusing it yet, the opportunity has now been created for those in that administration to listen to anyone covertly without any oversight whatsoever...but as long as we're not actively supporting terrorism what's the big deal, right? (just hope any politicians 'not playing ball' don't say anything over the phone they wouldn't want a political adversary to hear...maybe that's why the dem party seems so castrated)

As far as whether or not the patriot act's been abused, perhaps. What's your definition of abuse? Using the act in pursuit of non terrorists? Has already been happening. But lets just wait till it's being used against non criminals, then we'll decide it's worth doing something over. Btw, nobody was even given the opportunity to read the patriot act before voting upon it. That was no accident.

Now as far as the terrorist threat being make-believe...that's just silly...about as silly as a vague color coded 'threat-meter' in conjunction with even more vauge weekly security warnings.
 
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yet on the other end of the spectrum you've got mr. Frist, mr delay, ashcroft, wolfowitz, and others. My solution is we stand together in the middle, independent from traditional 2 party politics and piss upon ALL of them. More people should start having the cojones to run for something.
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I don't drink. But I'm going right after work to buy a couple cases of beer for when that happens!
 
The only people that should be concerned with the government listening to his/her conversations are people that intend to do something illegal

Very naive and not aware that government phone taps have been used to discern personal life details that can be used against political opponents.

Warrantless wiretaps will quickly expand to be used against 'perceived enemies' who are really just political opponents.

For example, let's say your daughter or wife was raped, was having severe marital difficulties or the like - things that you don't want to be public knowledge. It would not be surprising if an administration might not hint to you to shut up, change your vote, etc. or the info gets out.

Maybe, you are talking to your doctor about how you are impotent and need Viagra. That would be a great tape to be leaked to the press.

The idea that 100's of plots have been foiled is just plain stupid. If that were the case - this administration or any administration would be shouting it from the rooftops to win the next election.

Once again we see the great disconnect in the gun world. The only freedom that counts is playing gunboy. Nothing else! Let an authoritarian government and a strong leader interfer with all other aspects of the BOR for our safety.

It is also incredibly stupid not to realize that an administration you don't agree with would use the same tools to tap the phones of every gun owner. Then you can go live in your cabin like Grizzly Adams and bury your guns in PVC.

If one studies the history of Europe you see that each country had a cadre of fascists that would happily have joined Hitler's world view to make the trains run on time. The USA is no different.
 
Goslash...

that was also a great non-answer. It probably took you two or three hours to look all those words up in a dictionary to make sure you had them spelled correctly. I appreciate the time and effort!:) It makes me feel special! Honest.:rolleyes:
Anyways, I have read quite a few of your posts and I must say you seem to be one of those tinfoil hat kinda guys. Do me a favor. Next time you have a conspiracy theory, paranoid, the government is out to get me thought, keep it to yourself.
 
The Omnibus Crime Control Act of 1968 did not limit the President's power to obtain foreign intelligence information deemed essential to the security of the United States. IOW, they could tap, tap, tap away. OTOH, it did require the authorities to get a court order to tap phones in the case of garden variety domestic crime.

For ten extra credit bonus points - How old was President Bush in 1968?

John
 
Savage,

It probably took you two or three hours to look all those words up in a dictionary to make sure you had them spelled correctly. I appreciate the time and effort! It makes me feel special! Honest.
Anyways, I have read quite a few of your posts and I must say you seem to be one of those tinfoil hat kinda guys.
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Personal attacks are not welcome here, all they serve to do is to get threads locked. Please, if you can't come up with a response, other than hurling insults, keep the reply to yourself.
 
Goslash27:

kenny,
So are you telling me the rules don't apply because he's a convicted felon? Funny, I don't remember that being the way it's done in America.
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The BoR also provides for 'Due process', which enshrines the ability to restrict an individual's rights. Convicted felons and those deemed "mentally incompetent" would belong to this group.
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Here is an example of taking both roads to further ones agenda. To add anymore would spoil the moment.:p

kenny b
 
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