I'm not afraid of terrorists.

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The Patriot Act that was passed after 9/11 DOES indeed give the government the power to use wire-taps WITHOUT a court order!
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Read the patriot act. If it involves an investigation of foreign terrorist a court order will not be needed, a court order is still need for US citizens, and other possible crimes. Foreign drug dealers, mafia, still need a court order. You see lets say terrorist A comes into the country and talks about his plans about blowing up a chemical plant in Iowa with terrorist B. The Feds want to tap terrorist A&B cell phones. When you get a court order it goes by the phone # not the person. Al Qaeda knows this so what they do is phone flip. I call you on one cell phone # to your cell phone, then you get different phone and call me back, then I get different phone an call you back and so on and so on. pre-paid phones and Caller ID (So you don't have to even say the phone # your calling from) makes it easy. An Agent could simply tail the terrorist and intercept the cell calls with equipment you can get at Radio Shack but instead he has to know the phone #, get a court order, when the number changes he has to stop listening/ recording, find out what the new number is, get a court order, when the number changes he has to stop listening/recording. That bomb goes off because Bubba does want to have his call listened to.

Same thing with the gun show story...Do you think they will ban all guns if that happens...Columbine already happen and I see no ban?? Current firearms laws would prevent it from happening foreign Terrorist should not be able to buy guns at a gun show because they are not US citizens, and a background check should be completed. Some guys follow the rules at guns shows and some guy look the other way and bend rules....that makes us all look bad.
 
GoSlash27

Not to make light of the loss our country suffered on that day, but it simply didn't present a threat to a man living in East Podunk, Iowa.
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It frightens me that they could...
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So, you are worried that what the government could possibly do to one person or group is a threat to you even though it hasn't happened, but the 911 incident isn't a threat to Midwesterners because it hasn't happened to them?
Explain the logic.
 
Of all the 51 charges against the four men, not one was judged as guilty. Al-Arian, however, remains in custody pending a decision on whether to retry him on the deadlocked charges."
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Didnt he just cop a plea? Or was it another one down there? I cant recall

WildnotthatcoppinapleameansanythingAlaska

PS for an interesting parralell (spelling) to todays times when the government was again getting out of control, check out the period 1917-1921 vis a vis both Germans and Reds. Of course, the distinct problems we had then and now are the result of a non level playing field in terms of us vs them
 
The goverment can do whatever it damn well pleases even before bush was elected. It could have you arrested any time it wanted, seize your property any time it wanted, listen in on your calls any time it wanted. And yes make you disappear. Was it legal to do so without cause no. But what could you do to stop it from happening . Nothing till your day in court. If it wanted to arrest you with out cause you don't have much choice you either surrender or you fight back then you are really in trouble. Same with seizing your property and listing in on your phone calls. This isn't a new problem. Don't worry about something you have no control over. And you don't have any control over this. You may not like it but thats life you can't like everything in life. But i understand where you are coming from. You have to trust someone in life. The trouble is who can you trust?
 
Les (and the others who raise the "but Clinton" point),
Of course you're correct and yes that made me really angry as well.

But that doesn't make this okay. Previous civil rights violations do not justify further civil rights violations.

06nop,
Simple matter of probability and motive.
The terrorists have limited resources and opportunity to attack so they attack targets with high symbolic value. Unless you live in the shadow of the Sears Tower or the Capitol building you have very little to fear from the terrorists. I live in a little suburban neighborhood in middle America.
The government, OTOH, has the manpower, resources, and motive to go after anybody with impunity. They have an established track record of violating the civil liberties of those who speak out against them.
Odds are much greater that the guy busting into my house will be holding a blank warrant than a Koran.
You folks know about what happened at Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidian complex. Don't tell me it can't happen.
 
"read the patriot act"

That's soooo funny!!!! OMG, actually reading it! hahahahahahahaha That's rich, that's real rich...the powers that be didn't even let any of the senators a chance to read/peruse/glance the document before voting upon it, and for the benefit of those that do, they worded everything to pertain to everything else, so that you would require a team of interns to look up all the laws and codes they're changing. They could have sold the whitehouse in the patriot act and noone would have known. It was a nice warm legislative turd giftwrapped in a flag. Better not vote against it or by the very name you're anti-patriotic...may you burn for such a treasonous action. Thanks to rich for lending a much needed shield of credibility to that guy. The rest of you need to take the liberal/conservative lenses off now. It's time.
 
GoSlash,
Not to make light of the loss our country suffered on that day, but it simply didn't present a threat to a man living in East Podunk, Iowa. So I was deeply hurt and angered, but I wasn't afraid
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There has to be something worth blowing up for the terrorists, which makes Iowa the safest place on the planet. If Al Qaeda crashed three planes there, we wouldn't have found out about it yet :p

Seriously, I was living in New York City on 9/11/2001, and was about two miles from ground zero. I lived in the aftermath, and if you were there, and had to pass all the missing persons flyers posted on every block for a year afterward (especially those posted by the children of firefighters), you would have a greater understanding of the tragedy.

With that said, I agree with you. I fear the erosion of our freedoms far more than terrorism. Many thousands of Americans fought and died in the interest of defeating tyranny, I'm just not willing to give up the liberties our country was founded on, just for the illusion of increased "safety". Look at the graves in Arlington, Normandy and other places, and ask yourselves how what they fought for.
What's most disturbing, is how willing so many people are to give up those liberties in the interest of safety.

I didn't feel good to be walking in the middle of a public street in Manhattan, and be forced to show ID to police.

I wish we could know what the founding fathers would have to say about the Patriot Act.
 
I can understand that people say that they want to keep a shotgun next to their bed because a BG could get into you house. The chance of that happening is small but it exists. BUT, do you really have no other problems than to worry about your Government dragging you out of your home to torture you and to make you disappear??? And that they might listen to your telephone conversations??? You (a law abiding citizen) have nothing to hide, really. So why do you care? They wouldn't waste a thought on you as long they find no proof that you are part of any terrorist organisation or something like that.

If "they" would really use such methods, and by using them would save other peoples lives, YOU'd be selfish to deny them those rights, in my opinion...
 
Know what I think it is? I think you're biased. I think that if Clinton pulled a stunt like this you'd be screaming for his blood. But since it's Bush that makes it all a-ok. After all, it's a Republican and a Republican would *never* lie, cheat, or steal to get what he wants.
I think you've confused your alleigance with your party and elected officials with your duty to your fellow Americans
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Sorry to bust your bubble and you are correct in believing that I have no love for Bill Clinton. But when Clinton made any move in defense of this country right or wrong with my views at the time, I still pledged my full support behind him as our President. It was never the time for smack talk it was a time to be united as a country in front of the world.

Funny this actually happened before Bush was President, the old horse before the cart thing.

You know if more people voted and acted with with thier head instead of slandering each other and party's in front of a world audiance, life would be good.

kenny b
 
To goslash and similar others...

are you the hosts of Out There TV???:rolleyes: I'm glad you aren't scared of terrorists. I wish I could be more like you! You are such a bad***. I bet the planes would have just bounced off you right? Gimme a break! Like someone already pointed out, Clinton has done everything Bush has. I don't hate Clinton and I don't hate Bush. I'm not one of those idiots who votes for someone just because they run with a certain party. Open your eyes. One side isn't any more right than the other. They are politicians people! Their job is to lie and make money for themselves and fool us to get what they want. That being said, I don't think any U.S. President has ever done anything to purposely put our country in harms way. All of them have made bad decisions, some worse than others.
 
Savage,
Get real dude. If the terrorists come after me I'm dead. I'm not stupid.
*But*...they're not coming after me and unless you live in the White House they're not coming after you either.

The rest of your post....pretty much agree with it (which I'm sure you'd realize if you'd read my words) so I don't know why you're trying to argue the point.
 
GoSlash...

Last time I checked, Manhattan Island isn't the location of the White House. Even though they didn't come after you, many Americans still lost their lives. You are no more important than anyone else. All those people you saw on tv jumping out of the windows of the World Trade Center probably weren't scared of terrorists either. You never know when something is gonna happen and didn't that third plane crash in the middle of a field? Maybe we will all get lucky and the next one will fall on your house. By the way, 1995 called and they want their words back! "Get real dude":rolleyes:
 
Savage,
Are you telling me that I should be quaking in my boots from the terr'ists? Are you?
The WTC was a terrorist target. The Pentagon is a terrorist target United 93 crashed on it's way to a terrorist target.
My house in East Jabibby isn't a terrorist target.
Are you skeered? Skeered enough to betray the constitution?

[edit] "get real" is at least a decade more current than "gimme a break".
/just sayin'
[/edit]
 
goslash, that kind of Bill Klinton thought is what got us hit to start with.
America needs to grow strong and wise, not weak and liberal, again.
 
How many of these so called professors are brainwashing young Americans that we don't know about.

Al-Aria was just the kind of educator the clintons like.
 
Rich, I think I just heard that al arian confessed. Thats an outright confession, not a plea deal. I'll hafta dig and see if I can find it . E
 
Seriously what do you guys think Federal agents do all day....Ohhh Bubba has a new bloodhound, Jetro got his rifle, it my be a hunting trip or a milita meeting, lets get into the black helecopters, go to Iowa and pick these guys up. By the way, the Patriot Act still has yet to pass so you guy are kind of lost here in your little paranoia. I do not want to her an complaining when the next terrorist attack happen...how come we didn't know. Read the 9/11 commish report the took advantage of our current laws. The knew how to communicate, transfer money, and for the most part enter the country undetected. They knew thay can get on airplanes with small knives, and I heard bubba say I should be able all be allowed to carry firearms on a plane...real smart bubba, your 300lb ass with you 1911 is going to protect yourself against a highly trained terrorist, who trained for years, can do 100 pushup, and shoot the 10 ring at 25 yards while chanting allah akbar.

Why am I afraid...why did we go into Iraq...why where the 19 hijackers playing around and buying crop dusters...has anyone answered the questions??? Stop watching the X-files, Stop blaming some FBI slob working 80 hours a week for 20 years and still making 5 figures. Stop blaming the stupid politicans because all they care about is money, future book deals, and if they can get some from the intern underneath the desk. Care about your enemies. The islamic wacko who wants you dead, and the new superpower that is taking away your jobs, who wants to see America fall apart and perhap will be taking over when your children are grown.
 
My house in East Jabibby isn't a terrorist target.
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This is a good thing. The terrorists have focused on symbolic targets with which most Americans are not closely associated, thus they have little to fear. If terrorists were blowing up school buses in East Jabibby or shooting up shopping centers in South Podunk, the very randomness of the threat would cause a lot more fear in the population.
 
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