If not hollow-points, then what ammo for SD?

So, I've decided to broaden my expereinces with ammo. At least from a shooting point of view, even if it is not my SD choice.

The shopping list will be some of my standard Barnaul 9mm 115gr, and now a box of 9mm 123 gr and some subsonic 158gr. All FMJ, and all fairly round etc. The 158gr is the least pointed, but also the slowest...

We'll see tomorrow at the range!
 
I'll be keeping an "eye" on Mr Blinky tomorrow. However, I'm giving the Ruger a rest for this next trip: strictly autoloader tomorrow!!

Fortunately, my range do sell .44Spl and, yes, it makes a heck of a difference: my redhawk has similar recoil with those as my Glock does with those 44. Spls!

Very nice to shoot: hard to believe the ballistics are not far off .45ACP!!
 
Semiwadcutters for revolvers, and ball ammo in 45. That's what I'd do. I carry SWC's in my revolvers fairly often.
 
Well, I tried Fiocchi 158gr Subsonics, Magtech 147gr Flat nosed FMJ, Fiocchi 123gr FMJ, and 115gr Barnaul FMJ (my usual, range-supplied ammo).

I felt little difference between the 115 and 123 gr rounds, and little difference between the 158 and 147gr rounds.

Of those two pairs, I actually found the heavier ones more comfortable to shoot: less recoil, it seemed. If I had to choose between the two, I'd say the subsonics were most comfortable of all.

For practice purposes I'll probably stick to the 115gr range ammo, or buy the 115gr Fiocchi version at €170 per 1000 (bulk price, otherwise .22€c per shot). For any carry purposes I'll probably stick to those Subsonics for now and consequently shoot them now and again, but at €36 for 100!!
 
If not hollow-points, then what ammo for SD?
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H&E or Willie Peter.

But if you can't find any of that use the largest caliber round you can control and SWC lead bullets.

A .44 with a 200 grain lead simi-wadcutter at 800 fps is not bad.

Deaf
 
.44 Spl.

I'm all in on the Willie Pete! That'll fryém good.
What I have been fooling with the last few weeks is the .44 Spl., in a 5-shot, lightweight format (2" Bbl).
So far, If stoked with 240 gr. SJFP using a spooky load of A 2400 in a Charter Arms Bulldog gets me .45 ACP peformance, without draggin' down and old man's pants.
Everyman makes choices in life...YMMV.
 
If you CAN'T use hollow points see if you can find some of the EFMJ ammo, barring that, maybe a lead semi wadcutter.
 
Non- HP
38spl. LSWC 148gr
44Spl. LSWC 240gr
45acp.LSWC 200gr
45acp in a semi 230gr. Ball
40S&W LTC 180gr

These work..
 
I've read this thread with full and close attention.

I live in a country with laws stupid enough as to forbid the use of ANY expansive ammo except for especially authorized law enforcement specialties, that means, tactical units. Regular patrol officers don't get them, and they're forbidden for civilians or off-duty cops. Regulations seem to care much more about the person being shot (the bad guy) rather than on the one defending him/herself or bystanders.

Looks like a semijacketed flat nose would be the only option for me for my off-duty pistol, since FMJ is all I can use at work.
 
I like the Hornady Critical Defense for the .45 , but for the .44 Mag I love the Hornady Lever Revolution. Expands violently , very similar to the SST rifle version. I shot a 170 lb doe two weeks ago at just over 80 yards behind the front shoulder. Came out through the front shoulder on the other side and left a scatterd streak of " jelly " on the ground about 10 to 12 inches long. Pretty much destroyed the shoulder. Friend saw it before I told him which gun I shot it with being I always carry my .44 even when I carry the .300 WM. He said " damn , that 300 did some damage! He was very surprised when I informed him it was taken with the .44. I know some will comment about overpenetration , but in the magnum cartridge, pretty much whatever you shoot in the .44 is going to go through and keep on going!
 
OK I too cannot wrap my head around not being able to us a HP bullet.I thought the whole idea of a HP was for it not to be able to go all the way through.other than a close range fire or hot load.just saying ( opinion I guess )

now thats said.the HP is what I want to carry with and will.I want to be as safe a shoot I can be.I may or may not be able to keep a cool head when the time comes.with that said I may not be able to see all that is around me or the bad guy.useing a FMJ for self defense is a bad idea.we all know that we cannot for sure say to what we will be thinking when or if that day comes.the HP is the way to go again my opinion I guess.the FMJ is just a bad idea.the millitary has no choice but we do.

just the idea of shooting some one is bad enough.but shooting some one who doesn't need to be shot well it would just tear me up inside.( a pass through )a FMJ will keep on traveling till its stopped by some one or something.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we all need to keep safety first.not just wanting the bad guy dead.as I said before we will never know what we may or may not do when that day comes.we cannot say to them time out I need to make sure you are the only one who I am going to be shooting.we will just act out to what we think is best to do at that given time.

these are just my thoughts and opinions please don't hate me.take with a grain of salt.
 
That is all very well and good...

OK I too cannot wrap my head around not being able to us a HP bullet.I thought the whole idea of a HP was for it not to be able to go all the way through.other than a close range fire or hot load.just saying ( opinion I guess )

now thats said.the HP is what I want to carry with and will.I want to be as safe a shoot I can be.I may or may not be able to keep a cool head when the time comes.with that said I may not be able to see all that is around me or the bad guy.useing a FMJ for self defense is a bad idea.we all know that we cannot for sure say to what we will be thinking when or if that day comes.the HP is the way to go again my opinion I guess.the FMJ is just a bad idea.the millitary has no choice but we do.

just the idea of shooting some one is bad enough.but shooting some one who doesn't need to be shot well it would just tear me up inside.( a pass through )a FMJ will keep on traveling till its stopped by some one or something.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we all need to keep safety first.not just wanting the bad guy dead.as I said before we will never know what we may or may not do when that day comes.we cannot say to them time out I need to make sure you are the only one who I am going to be shooting.we will just act out to what we think is best to do at that given time.

these are just my thoughts and opinions please don't hate me.take with a grain of salt
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But did you read the post where the OP lives in a country that prohibits hollow point ammo? That is the reason for this thread. The OP doesn't have the option.
 
I know thats why I posted like I did.its just to hard for me to wrap my head around.and yes,I know that a lead bullet ( SWC ) is more likely to expand faster than the jacketed ones t.I guess its to hard for me to follow what other states even countries think.some say pecan and some say pucon.

again I just wanted to state my opinion on the post.I hate the idea he is told what he can or cannot use.the bad guys use what ever they can get their hands on.and they will never think about safety or killing some one by mistake.but when and if they do fire I hope its a friend or gang member.one more less to deal with.
 
^ I do get your point, and share it, however, it looks like what we're looking for here is for an alternative, a SAFE alternative, for whoever cannot use HP wherever they live, which is the case with the OP and, for example, myself.

In my case, we cannot use HP or "any other ammunition purposedly designed to expand on impact" as our regulations say. I'm thinking that a flat-nose semijacketed could be an option.

Question is, how would be a round like this (semijacketed, flat nose, soft tipped) round perform out of the barrel of a Glock?. I know lead is a big no-no on Glocks, but how about a semijacketed soft/flat nose?. Being partially jacketed, would the polygonal rifling of the Glock withstand its use?.
 
Flat nose FMJ is a better choice than any round nose bullet.

Round nose bullets have a tendency to simply push tissue aside,,,
Any kind of flattened surface will cut body tissue better.
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It was once thought so, until street results showed other wise. Neither flat points nor semi-wadcutters improved performance in SD shootings over round nose. Where's the data?

Yes, SWC's do work for larger game deep penetration is required. But animals aren't people.
 
I don't care if you use round nose, fmj, hollow point, or flat nose. If you have a 357 magnum, 44 magnum or even a 40. cal, the person is going down.
 
I don't care if you use round nose, fmj, hollow point, or flat nose. If you have a 357 magnum, 44 magnum or even a 40. cal, the person is going down.
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Josey, Josey, Josey. You've really taken those Clint Eastwood movies to heart.;)
 
I would say what a SWAT friend told me awhile back when I asked him what the best gun and best round were "The one in your hand and the next one down range" seems simple but his statement was "shot placement" it is the most critical element. You can stop someone with a .22 with one well placed shot and have someone advance on you after several bad shots with a .40 With that being said I carry a .45 with 200 grain hollow points! If I could not use or could not get HP;s my choice would be a jacketed flat nose, excellent penetration and feed very well.
 
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