I was open carrying at Wal-Mart, and....

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Mellow C didn't start this thread to get yelled at for his personal choice.

We all have personal rights to keep and bear arms. He has a right recognized by the state of CO to Open carry his firearm. It comes down to simple rights. A right NOT used is a right lost.

You concealed carry only advocates need to get off your high horses and look at the bigger picture.

AS for the letter I personally would have streamlined it a little.

I believe that the website opencarry.org may have some more information and infact they may have a letter from Walmart Corporate as to the policy. That said you as a gun owner/carrier should complain to them for the lack of concern.

I've open carried in many walmarts and never had an issue. I pray I never do but should the issue arise whether open or concealed carrying, we as responsible gun owners owe it to the person asking all due respect. It is our job to educate and inform not get on each others backs for being stupid and showing off.
 
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"I'll be taking my grocery business to King Supers this evening." The man replied with an understandably frustrated "Thats fine."
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These big chain stores don't care about this, none of them do. They know they will not really lose anything at all. This would only work on little mom & pop stores that are privately owned. Most people don't know any guns laws even if they live in that state all their lives. Oh well, one less place to buy ammo I guess.
 
I do not open carry (it is not legal here in TX) and if it were, I'm not sure I'd do it.

That said:
Your actions were lawful. You have nothing to apologize for, to the store or to short-sighted forum members.

You definitely should take it up with the store (or with Corporate HDQ) in a respectful manner.

Keep the faith, and continue to exercise your rights.
 
Any correspondence on this matter should be directed to the corporate office of WalMart. W/M's policy is to follow state and local law. If it's legal, you can carry there.
 
They don't allow fire arms but yet they sell them, and ammunition for them? I hate our local wal mart. they could not keep the shelves stocked with dust if they were selling it. Every time I go in there the shelves are so empty it looks like they have not seen a truck in over a week.
 
Amathis wrote, "We all have personal rights to keep and bear arms. He has a right given to him by law in the state of CO to Open carry his firearm."

I apologise for being a nit-picker, but I think a more correct way of putting this would be that the state of Colorado recognizes his right to open carry his firearm.

The only reason I'm even bringing this up is that if we state that a government gives us this right, then that government also has the authority to take it away. Even the 2nd amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not give us the right to keep and bear arms. It recognizes that right and forbids the federal government from infringing on it.

This is not meant to flame anybody, especially you, Amathis. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments you expressed.
 
Walmart doesn't have to let you do anything in their store. It is private property. They asked you to leave. If they can't get the rules right all of the time it is Walmart's problem.

They have lots of reasons to prohibit people with guns in the store...

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/nw_valley/video-wal-mart-gun-discharge-4-9-2010

If you don't like it then don't go back. They don't care and really don't need your money or the problems you may or may not bring with you.

I CC in Colorado all the time. Never have any of these issues. The state of Colorado doesn't (yet) get to tell Walmart how to run their business.
 
Here is what I think:

#1 It is their store and private property. If they dont want you there for any reason, then you have to leave.

#2 You are a frequent customer of the store and Walmart does state they are customer friendly. They could have handled the matter in a more friendly manner such as "Hi sir. My name is John Smith...store manager. I appreciate your business here and I understand you are a long standing customer. We understand that its legal to open carry, however, the store policy is that we do not allow firearms in here. I apologize if no one has expressed this to you in the past. I would appreciate if you can place your firearm in your car and return to shop. Can you please do that now? Thank you..."

#3 When approaching an armed individual, never approach as a group. That was a mistake of the store manager. Approaching as a group can be threatening and you never want to approach an armed individual in a threatening manner. Your demeanor must always be kind, smile and have your hands open for the armed individual to see. This goes for any armed individual police officer, soldier, etc. The store manager did not handle this as well as could be.

#4 If someone expresses the least bit of discomfort in regards to your firearm, whether its legal or not, its time to leave. That was a mistake by you. You could pretty much telegraph that the greeter at the front was the first sign to a more troubling escalated situation. The minute the greeter started to question you about it, then you should have said. "Oh Im sorry, let me go place this in the car. I did not know the store rules." What if the store manager called the police and what if the police somehow misinterpreted your actions and approached you in a drawn posture.

#5 I would not have bothered you thinking you were probably a law enforcement officer in plain clothes. No one usually open carries like that unless they are the law...

So they have a right to ask you to leave, but they could have done it in a more friendly manner. You should have left the moment you were first questioned by the store greeter...they were dropping a hint and she might have been afraid to break the news to you since you were armed. The Walmart manager did not approach you as well as he could have. Its not good to approach an armed individual as a group and its not good to be rude to an armed individual no matter who they might be...
 
If you want a response you must rewrite that letter. It is very difficult to get through. You need to be succinct and use much shorter paragraphs... :confused:
 
"Walmart so far has not banned the carry of concealed guns or open carry, however it is frightening to many to see an open carried gun in a place that has not need for them. The entire reason for concealed carry is so it wont be seen and wont bother people."

I wanted to reply to this part. The reason why people open carry and why there are laws on the books allowing such is because of bears. Seriously.

Colorado is bear country and that is the reason behind the open carry laws there. It has nothing to do with crime in Colorado or the right to have arms. There was a woman killed last year by a bear in Colorado. If she had been open carrying then she would be alive today.

It is because of the open carry laws that less people have died in bear attacks across America. What if a bear was attacking a child...I am certain you would like to have someone around open carrying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/20348401/detail.html
 
Here we go again. First of all, people have to realize that there is a difference between "RIGHTS" and "PRIVILEGES". When you are on private property, (Other than your own), the ONLY RIGHT you have, is the Right to Liberty. Which means, you have the RIGHT to LEAVE. While on PRIVATE PROPERTY, all other activities that you engage in are strictly PRIVILEGES. Sorry, but that's the way it is. They don't even have to post a sign. If on that day and particular time, a shop owner feels that your OPEN CARRY is going to disturb his/her other customers, for whatever reason, then he/she has every RIGHT in the world as a private property owner, to ask you to leave. And your RIGHT to open carry has nothing to do with it. That's the way it is. Now, if you think that whatever rule or policy they required of you to follow was biased or prejudice, and didn't apply to ALL patrons, then you can get them for discrimination. But other than that, the private property owner simply enforced THEIR RIGHT to limit the PRIVILEGES they allow you to have while on their property.

If you are carrying concealed, then the issue is moot, unless they require ALL patrons to be searched or to pass through a weapon detector. On PUBLIC PROPERTY, you have RIGHTS. On your OWN property, you have RIGHTS. On someone else's PRIVATE PROPERTY, you have PRIVILEGES. Except of course for the right to "Liberty". Which means you are free to leave that person's private property if you don't like their rules/policies; and they can't stop you from leaving. Yes, some cities/states have twisted and abused the law by saying that you can't open carry in public. And if, someone had enough money to challenge that ruling in court, they most probably would win. But most individuals don't have those resources, and groups like the NRA are more political than rights oriented, so they pick and choose their battles.

Anyway, the OP did right by leaving when he did. What he SHOULD have done however, was to return back to that store during normal weekday business hours, without his open carry weapon, and request to speak with the store manager. Not a shift manager, but the entire store manager. Get this ruling resolved once and for all. Not rely on a walmart greeter or some assistant shift manager. Then, if the "REAL" manager says the policy of that store is no open carry, then that's the rule. Choose to follow the rule and shop there, or don't shop there. That's your RIGHT; not carrying the gun on private property. If the manager says it's OK to carry openly, then request that the individuals who stopped you be informed of the policy.

Mainly, I prefer concealed carry. As one person mentioned, you have the right to FART in public. But do you? Most times no. Why? Because it's not the socially accepted thing to do. You're allow to pick your nose and eat it in front of people, but you don't. There's a lot of things that you have the "RIGHT" to do, but you don't. That's because when people live in a society, they learn to cooperate with others in society with what they want. In other words, when different people in the group all want different things, we tend to compromise. Well, some people just don't get it. All they scream is: "That's my Right". Well, people have the right to act like butt-heads too. Unless you're not allowed to carry concealed, or if it's not practical to carry concealed, there's very little argument for open carrying. Sorry, but the "That's My Right" statement isn't an argument. That simply means you have the right to also be "Self Centered" and not care about anyone else's rights. I live in one of the most PRO-GUN areas of the country imaginable. Even more than colorado. 86% of all households have guns. We all live with guns. Yet, even when we see people open carry, where it doesn't seem appropriate, we don't say anything, but we all think: "He's trying to look important or cool". And we've discussed this in many groups, so I know this is what's being said. There's definitely times when open carry is appropriate. And it's obvious to all those around. And there's times when concealed carry is the proper choice. If you can't get a concealed carry permit, that's understandable. Any other time, there's no excuse for not carrying concealed when possible. Luckily my state doesn't have a stupid law about printing. Open carry and concealed is both legal, so if it's concealed, and you move your shirt or jacket to get to your wallet and the gun is exposed, no big deal.
 
First off I like guns in all forms.

Ive been thinking like hell to come up with a reason someone would want to open carry, in walmart. Can't think of one. In fact I'm 100 percent with the store on this one (although I hate walmart with a passion).

If I owned a store, and had customers coming in with a hog leg strapped on, I wouldn't want that person in my store, nor would I want his business. Hes likely disturbing the customers by making the sheeple nervous (hey I'd want there money to), not to mention the liability issue of someone who already has the questionable social judgment of open carrying in a public market is now walking around the store with his gun. Theres no law here about walking around with a double bit axe propped on your shoulder eather, but if I seen that sorta character in any store besides one that had a big "STIHL serviced here" sign in the window, Im going outside for a smoke break. Such characters stick out (this may have been intended), and are seen in a less then mentally stable light nowadays.

Now if a man has it concealed, its out of sight, out of mind for the most part. Sorry fella but your going to have to accept that not everyone likes guns being flaunted by non LEO, when there going about there daily business. In fact its only a matter of time before you get questioned by persons more loftier then a walmart manager. And honestly, its those employees right to not be scared sh!tless to have to go ask an openly armed individual (no matter how cordial he is) to leave the store, this is just common sense. Carrying a gun openly in a public market is just bad taste IMHO, do you have it strapped on when you go to the dentist as well?

Enjoy that open carry law while it lasts, because if incidents like this become common place, you can bet the open carry will be gone (voted out by the lib sheeple, theres gotta be one or 2 of those in Colorado).

I should thank the OP for giving me yet another reason not to shop at walmart.

Finally, its your right to open carry, and again I like guns in all forms. Its just that I like seeing them at the range, the gravel pit, the woods behind my house, the gunstore etc.. Not in the dairy section, openly strapped to anyone besides a LEO.
 
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must be the arizona effect because i see a pistol open carried almost every day in various businesses. THe only people that ever grouse are snowbirds (no pun) and they are put in their place kindly but firmly.
 
This was my experience with "open carry":

I was at the local liquor store one night for a bottle of wine and this guy waltzes in open carry. It caught the clerk by surprise and she blurted out "what are you doing with that in here??”

He then went on a 10 minute diatribe on his rights and state laws and she couldn't stop him and how stupid she was blah, blah, blah...... So he finishes up with a cat ate the bird grin and the clerk replies "Maybe, but I can refuse service to anyone - get out."

Now the liquor store is posted "no firearms allowed".

He made his point. And now she has made hers. Now, in theory, I can't carry in there either.
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This guy wasn't protecting anything, his rights, his privileges or anything. He walks into a liquor store late on a Saturday night looking for a reaction. He got one and then went away mad.

The OP behaved politely and calmly and I commend him for that, but he must know that open carry is going to draw attention and some people are NOT going to like it. These people have every right to ask you to leave.

Being angry at Walmart because they can't get their policy straight is like being angry with politicians lying. You are expecting way to much from these people.
 
I think open carry is silly, but I am glad people do it. It is totally legal in PA, and because of that, I don't have to worry if my concealed carry gun accidentally gets momentarily exposed or noticed. But there's a more important reason why I like that people open carry. it is the "bank gaurd effect". If I am shopping somewhere and there's a guy open carrying, some criminals who are in the store will think twice about carrying out a crime while I'm in there if they see the other guy with the gun on. And, the other part of the bank gaurd effect is that when the bad guys come in and decide to do something bad, the guy walking around with the gun displayed on his belt gets shot first, which will hopefully give me a chance to run out the door.
 
"hick" you need to know some things. First, I carry a gun into Wally World because I carry a gun EVERYWHERE - except where disallowed by law. Why do I feel the need to carry a gun? Well, just take a look at the news lately. The mess is hitting the blades in more and more places, and in places you'd never expect it to happen. I want for me and my family to have some modicum of protection.

Given the option, I'd always open carry. No, I don't want to "strut my stuff" nor do I have a need to be noticed or "make a scene". I'm far past the point where I care what the "sheeple" and strangers think of me. I'd OC for four reasons:
1. It's easier.
2. It's more comfortable.
3. It allows more varied modes of dress.
4. It's easier/faster to get to my piece.

'nuff said.
 
I'll make a few comments, just because they're on my mind at this point.

Wool-Mart doesn't care if you shop there or not. They'll sell enough to everyone that it won't make any difference to them. If ALL gunowners boycotted wool-Mart, then maybe.
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That was pretty much my first reaction, too. Saying you're going to shop elsewhere is like saying you're going to stop one raindrop from hitting the ground in a thunderstorm.

As for those who derided the OP's choice to legally open carry, I don't know why you want to cater to the hypersensitivity of people who don't like guns. In my experience, they are the same people who don't like concealed carry or even private gun ownership. If you back down for open carry, where are you going to draw the line later? Maybe if more people carried openly where it is legal, it would be legal in more places.

At some point, you must stand up for your rights and exercise them, or you run the risk of people assuming you don't need those rights anymore.

Regarding the OP's situation, my reaction to the two guys in the cereal isle would have been tell them, "One of your people already talked to your management and said it was okay. If you have a problem with that, you'll need to talk to your management." At that point, it really wasn't a problem between you and Dumb and Dumber. It was a problem between management and Dumb and Dumber. If they then threatened to call the police, I'd have said, "Okay. Meanwhile, I need to grab some Shredded Wheat" and went about my business.

At all times, be calm, collected, and ... professional. If the police show up, calmly tell them that management had already said it was okay, but Dumb and Dumber didn't bother to double-check with management (and no, I wouldn't actually call them Dumb and Dumber). The police will then go to management. If management then changes its mind on you, the police won't be happy with the management if they gave you conflicting info. That keeps you good with the police.

Or if Dumb and Dumber get the manager, who then changes his mind, calmly say, "Okay," and leave the stuff and calmly walk out. Don't argue, don't try to convince. You've already been down that route the first time. Plus, it is private property, and if they don't want open carry, that's their call. Private businesses have rights too. But I wouldn't support a store that tells me one thing one moment and then stabs me in the back the next moment.
 
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He has a right recognized by the state of CO to Open carry his firearm.
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Yes indeed, but that right does not extend to private property on which the owner prefers otherwise.

It comes down to simple rights.
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Yep, my point exactly.

A right NOT used is a right lost.
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???

How does one use a right? And why would it be lost? If I choose to shut up and listen, have I lost the right to free speech?

You concealed carry only advocates need to get off your high horses and look at the bigger picture.
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I do not think anyone has advocated "concealed carry only". They have, however, pointed out the quite obvious fact that that, had the OP been carrying concealed, the controversy would have been avoided.

To me, those who want to draw attention to themselves would seem to be the ones on "high horses."

The store employees may or may not have exceeded their authority as delegated by Walmart's Corporate officers in this case, but that's a Corporate matter that only Walmart can address. Under the law, the OP was bound by the employees' request.

Of course, under the law, he is not obligated to buy anything from Walmart.

If his letter to the corporate offices yield favorable results, good for all. Until then, he can either carry concealed in the store, choose to not carry, or shop elsewhere.

Where I live, only concealed carry is allowed, and store owners may prohibit concealed carry on their premises. Those who do get my business only when it is necessary, and they know it.
 
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