I was open carrying at Wal-Mart, and....

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mellow_c

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This is a letter I wrote to the Store Manager of our local Wal-Mart after my last trip to the store... I have not been back since, and I have still received no reply to my letter despite leaving all my contact information at the end of the letter. Feel free to leave any comments.
For the record. I'm not as bothered by what happened as it might seam in my letter, but I still think I should have been treated with more respect... but I guess this is just the world we live in. Enjoy!:)

My girlfriend and I came to Wal-Mart this last Wednesday, 3/31/2010. I bought some ammo back at the sporting goods counter and was searching out some groceries. I was "Open Carrying" one of my pistols on my belt, as is legal here in Colorado (everywhere except for Denver, and one or two other small towns). I've open carried quite a few times now. I've been doing it every now and then for about 3 years. And out of all the places I've open carried, as far as businesses go, I've done it more at Wal-Mart than anywhere else. Because I go there more than anywhere else I suppose.
As we were shopping around, we decided we were ending up with more than we could carry, so I went to the front to grab a cart. The nice older lady with white hair noticed I had a pistol on my belt and stopped me. She said "what is that? Is that a firearm? I'm not sure you can have that in here." "Oh, it's fine..." I said "I'm open carrying, it's perfectly legal, I've done it many times before, it's Colorado state law." "OK" she says, "but let me call someone over, I'm not sure if you can do that, we had better make sure." ... "Sounds good" I say. "Yes" she says... "Then we will both know for sure".
I waited a minute or so, and then a middle aged blond lady came over and began to ask me about it. "We don’t allow fire arms in here" she says. "Really?" I said. "I've carried in here many time before, it has never been a problem.... I'm open carrying, it's perfectly legal". ... Lady "Well, in this city I think you need a permit to carry a gun. Do you have a permit?" "No, I don’t have a permit to carry concealed, but Open Carry is legal in Colorado, everywhere but Denver. Actually, I've carried in here many times before, and other places, it has never been a problem before. You don’t have to worry about me; I'm a member of the local range, and a very respectful person." After our chat, she said she would go ask her manager to see if I could carry in the store or not. I thanked her for asking, mentioning that I hoped to be able to continue with my shopping, and assuring her that I meant no harm.

Moments latter she returned and told me “Everything is fine; you can go ahead with your shopping.” I was very pleased and thanked her for her help in verifying that we were all fine and having a good day so to speak. I shook her hand, thanked her again, and met back up with my girlfriend waiting with our items "inside the store". (This all took place in the front where you get your cart) My girlfriend and I kept shopping for food. I told her. "Wow, that was great, I'm so happy with how that worked out, those two did everything right, asked all the right questions, treated me with respect, and found out everything was fine, now we can keep shopping!" I was very pleased, and was enjoying searching for our intended items.
While in the Cereal isle, I noticed two older men, Wal-Mart employees walking quickly with a serious *your in trouble* look in their eyes. My first thought was that maybe they heard that someone was open carrying, but were not yet informed that "everything was fine". Then came right up to me and asked "Sir, is that a fire arm?" "Yes it is" I replied. "You can’t have that in here" one of the men said. Only one of them talked to me, the other just observed with no real indifference. I began to explain to the man speaking with me that everything was fine, and I was just open carrying in accordance with Colorado state law and that the people at the door had just told me it was ok for me to go ahead with my shopping.
I seam to remember a bit of back and forth between the man and I. Nothing hostile in either direction, but there was an obvious difficulty in communication between the two of us. He seamed very nervous, and was treating me as though I was a serious threat, and seamed to have no consideration that I was a paying customer, and rather that I was a big problem which must be removed immediately. Somewhere in the back and forth of me explaining everything was fine, he said he would call the police if he had too. After he realized that I did not understand what the problem was, and that no one had given me any real explanation of the situation at hand. He simply said "This is private property, and I must ask you to leave". I responded "That's what I was waiting to here.". In all reality, I was hoping he would give me an explanation, something along the lines of, “One of our customers and or employees is uncomfortable with you carrying in our store, and we must ask you to leave your firearm outside before you can continue shopping.” But instead I was met with hostility, an inability to understand my situation, intense nervousness, and no explanation what so ever, despite the fact that I was told only minutes ago that I could continue with my shopping. I felt as though I was being evicted from the store for committing a crime.
We began walking out... as we walked, I mentioned to him, "I just want you guys to understand... there is no problem here, and this is nothing personal, but I'll be taking my grocery business to King Supers this evening." The man replied with an understandably frustrated "Thats fine."
My girlfriend still had a few things in the cart she was going to buy, so I told her I'd meet here out at the truck. I took my ammo that I had already paid for and walked the rest of the way with the two men to the front door. Along the way I was assuring the nervous man that everything was fine, and I still didn't understand what the problem was based on the fact that the two ladies at the door cleared me to continue shopping, in what seamed to be a very pleasant understanding. At this point he would no longer speak to me.



Sir, first off, let me thank you for taking the time to read this letter. I do not mean this letter to be a complaint about the store, or it’s employees. However, I do feel very uncomfortable with the idea of coming back to shop at Super Wal-Mart of Longmont. I have been a frequent customer ever since the store has opened. I know quite a few of the employees at the store and find it to be a very pleasant place to do business. I would appreciate it very much if we could find a resolution to this matter that would allow me to feel at ease, and continue to be a frequent customer.
 
I'll make a few comments, just because they're on my mind at this point.

Wool-Mart doesn't care if you shop there or not. They'll sell enough to everyone that it won't make any difference to them. If ALL gunowners boycotted wool-Mart, then maybe. Their employees tend to be sheep, so they're uncomfortable with firearms.

If you want to work it out, then work out the options.

You choose to open carry, which is a legal means of being armed. If Wool-Mart doesn't want you to carry in the store, then they obviously prefer for you to leave your firearm in your vehicle. Vehicles are regularly broken into and/or stolen from Wool-Mart parking lots.

So does Wool-Mart prefer for you to leave your firearm unattended, with the possibility of it being stolen? or, would they prefer that you keep the firearm safely in your possession while you shop? What sort of security does Wool-Mart provide for keeping your vehicle and it's contents safe? What sort of security do they offer inside the store to keep you and your girlfriend safe? Unarmed sheep aren't good protectors, and the nervous buffoon wasn't very intimidating in the way he offered to call the police.

It might not hurt to remind them that if a criminal steals your firearm from your vehicle, the door greeter isn't going to be able to stop said criminal like they did a law abiding citizen. If that happened, would you be at risk as a responsible party? Or would Wool-Mart be responsible? If you are injured or killed by a BG while in the store, because you were unable to defend yourself with the firearm that's in your vehicle, will Wool-Mart be willing to pay for medical expenses and/or compensate your surviving family?

I know a few people who've had the same problem at various Wool-Marts, and there's usually no (or very little) satisfaction. Our local Wool-Mart used to have a sign prohibiting firearms, then they changed it to include "except with a valid CCW permit", and then the sign came down entirely. Even so, I keep a leather vest in my vehicle for just such occasions, and it fits right in with my proximity to Tombstone and the way I normally dress.

No see, no foul. I mostly open carry, but there are places where concealed can be less trouble.
 
Interesting exchange. I would be interested, as the one employee mentioned "We don't allow firearms in here", if the store is posted as such, somewhere in its entry's?

And yes, any business is private property and you can be asked to leave by ownership/leadership. When they do, you do exactly what you did. Leave quietly.
 
As licensed to CCW, everytime I've been in "Walmarts" as we say in the country, I've been carrying. Sorry for your difficulty. Ignorant blooters will never get it!!!
 
mellow,

How much time, in total # of hours, did you spend screwing around with this issue that day? Including the time it took you to write the letter afterwards? Plus including the time it took to go over to King Soopers to get the groceries you were unable to buy at WalMart?

It may not be this way for all folks, but for me - my time is one of my most valuable assets.

This is why lots of guys carry concealed - so as to avoid upsetting little old white haired ladies who then call management types who then get their panties in a wad and call still others, whether law enforcement or simply boneheads who work for WalMart to come and jack you around.

It comes down to pretty simple outcome-comparisons. Whether you think it SHOULD be this way or not is really irrelevant - it IS this way: Carry Open = Deal with Boneheads. Carry Concealed = Avoid Hassle.

It might be a different matter if it were difficult to get a CCW in Colorado, but this is no longer the case.

You only need to answer one basic question for yourself: "How valuable is my time?"

Depending on the answer to that question, you may want to pursue a CCW.

It comes down to "how much dumbassery do you want to waste time dealing with?"
 
Thanks for sharing. You should send it to their corporate address as well. Maybe then you will here something back!
 
Out of sight, out of mind. In years of carrying a firearm (sometimes two) into Wal-Marts and countless other stores I've never been approached by an employee, let alone asked to leave. Thank you for the reminder of why the time, effort and expense I've put into properly concealing a firearm is worth it.
 
You haven't heard back from them because you were too nice. Write another letter and sound like an angry customer and they will respond and be oh so sorry. :rolleyes:

Wal-Mart does not care about your feelings, opinions, or rights for that matter. If they can keep multiple customers pacified by ruining only one's day, they look at that as more customers gained than lost.
 
I am a staunch advicate of the right to bear arms, however open carry in a buisness is in poor taste in my opinion. Every buisness has the right to not allow open or concealed carry. Walmart so far has not banned the carry of concealed guns or open carry, however it is frightening to many to see an open carried gun in a place that has not need for them. The entire reason for concealed carry is so it wont be seen and wont bother people. Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should. I have a right to pass gas in public,however there is a time and place for it and in Wamart around families and neighbors isnt the place. The more people hear about open carry the more they want to ban it. In my opinion, get a permit and hide the thing before they pass a law saying we cant and before stores stop us altogether from carrying. We as RESPOSIBLE gun owners need to act resposible.
 
I have shopped at several WalMarts in Arizona, open and concealed, no issues whatsoever. Sorry your experiance was foul. I agree CCW would be better to avoid issues, although open carry has been legal here since 1912. I carry concealed, simply because I prefer it, and in a few months, we won't even need a permit to carry concealed. What would the nice old lady say then? :D
 
You should send it to their corporate address as well. Maybe then you will here something back!
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That would be a good idea, but it needs some work. It's important for it to make a good impression and to do that it needs to be short and to the point and it will help if spelling and grammar is decent.

Here's my shot at what it should look like.
Last Wednesday, 3/31/2010 my girlfriend and I visited the Super Wal-Mart of Longmont. I was "Open Carrying" a pistol, as is legal here in Colorado (everywhere except for two or three municipalities). Over the past 3 years I have occasionally openly carried a pistol—many times at the Wal-Mart in question.

During the visit I went to the front of the store for a shopping cart since I had too many items to carry. The greeter noticed the pistol and stopped me. Although I reassured her it was legal, she called another employee who said that firearms were not allowed in the store. I asked her to verify this with her manager and she returned shortly and told me that I could continue shopping.

A few minutes later I was approached by two more Wal-Mart employees who inquired about the firearm and told me that I was not allowed to have it in the store. As before I let them know that open carry was legal and that another employee had told me it was allowed.

After a polite exchange one employee finally told me "This is private property, and I must ask you to leave". I complied with his request and I was walked to the front door.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to read this letter. I do not mean this letter to be a complaint about the store, or its employees; however, I do feel very uncomfortable with the idea of coming back to shop at Super Wal-Mart of Longmont. I have been a frequent customer since the store opened. I know quite a few of the employees at the store and find it to be a very pleasant place to do business. I would appreciate it very much if we could find a resolution to this matter that would allow me to feel at ease, and continue to be a frequent customer.​
One more reason not to shop at WalMart. Not that I needed one
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It might be a good reason not to shop at the particular Wal-Mart in the story, but until you know what the corporate policy on open carry is, it's not at ALL a good reason not to shop at Wal-Marts in general.
 
I carried into Wally World openly many times in NC, an open carry state. I was never accosted. Wally World Corporate is very 2A friendly, and if an individual manager forbids carry, a simple letter to the District Manager will straighten everything out.

This incident also proves what a cast iron JOKE Wally World's "crack security team" at the door is. It's also an eloquent comment on "a little knowledge is dangerous". The septuagenarians manning the portals and the minimum wage floor clerks will not and can not really contribute anything to security except, "Welcome to Wal-Mart".

When I go through and the security buzzer goes off, my usual reaction is to simply keep walking. If someone does manage to stop me (gawd forbid they lay hands on me), it's, "Are you accusing me of shoplifting? Please call your store manager and the police. No, I do not consent to myself or my bags being searched by a store employee."

The reason my reaction is so "over the top" is the security IS a joke. It's haphazard at best and NOT performed by trained people. I know, I worked plain clothes security at K-Mart for 3 years. We were professionals and took the job seriously. We actually caught shoplifters, not simply harassed innocent customers.
 
You probably didn't hear back from them because they couldn't get through your letter. The important parts are buried amongst collosal paragraphs of nothing.

It could say the same thing in a few sentences:

I was open carrying a handgun at X store on Y date. I was told firearms are not allowed in the store and was asked to leave. Is this the official policy of your corporation? If so, you have lost my business.
 
I agree with 30-30 on this issue completely. Why in gods green earth would you want to draw attention to yourself and put up with a hassel. I don't understand this whole issue of open carry just because you can. Why would you call attention to yourself like that? Have you tried to get a permit? When I carry I don't want anyone to know anything, until I am ready to let them know if needed. I don't see any tactical advantage in open carry at all. My eye would be on you at all times, which doesn't make any sense. I think many on this issue will side with you just because of the right to carry is legal and because of our second amenment rights. Many are nervous and don't agree with it but won't say so. I don't know, I just don't see what the point and gain is for all this trouble.
 
I was "Open Carrying" one of my pistols on my belt, as is legal here in Colorado (everywhere except for Denver, and one or two other small towns).
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Open carry is illegal in Telluride. Telluride? Yep. So I've heard from someone who ought to know. I honestly can't tell you about Boulder, but here's a clue: it's illegal to smoke in public there.
 
I havent bought anything from walmart since they ran out of ammo 2 years ago.Just get a ccw an dont worry about it. Maybe it had something to do with the idiot in Arizona, he put a hole in ceiling of a Walmart a couple of days ago.
 
I recognize the fact that you were trying to be a good ambassador of us, fellow firearm owners and carriers, but in my opinion I think you were a little too passive with your rights when confronted by the two men inside the store. If it were me in your place I would of calmly explained to the men that it was legal to carry there, and that you had already spoken to someone inside the store regarding the manner.

If they wanted to keep pressing the issue past that I would of asked to talk to the store manager and said nothing else until he arrived. The manager then would of put those two in their place, and you could of continued your shopping with piece of mind. That is just my two cents, like I said I think it was great that you kept your wits and talked to all parties involved like a intelligent adult, and make a scene even though you were in the right. :)
 
I've done a bit of "house cleaning" on this thread.

The forum rules demand that members express their opinions without insulting other members.
 
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