I Want To Buy A 10MM

A jacketed hollowpoint is the last thing to use on a grizz.
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I agree, I wouldn't chose a standard pistol JHP bullet for grizzly bear.

The OP is talking about BLACK BEAR, which is a smaller somewhat different bear.

A large boar black bear in Arizona can be in the 350lb range. 250lbs for sows Exceptions exist, but generally a black bear is about half the size of a grizzly bear.

With correct bullet selection and proper bullet placement, both the .357 and the 10mm will do the job. The key is proper bullet placement. And that is entirely dependent on shooter's skill, ability and knowledge.

Bears are not armor plated but their skulls offer round bone bullets CAN glance off of. A bear's vital organs are inside a shaggy sloppy fitting bear suit and aren't quite where most people expect just from looking at the bear. Study bear anatomy, seriously if you think you may ever need to stop a charging bear.
 
The OP is talking about BLACK BEAR, which is a smaller somewhat different bear. * * * A bear's vital organs are inside a shaggy sloppy fitting bear suit and aren't quite where most people expect just from looking at the bear. Study bear anatomy, seriously if you think you may ever need to stop a charging bear.
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Or, behind Door #2, you can learn something from a real Black Bear Pro.

Below, a longtime black-bear hunting guide, who carries a 10mm Kimber Eclipse, relates his experience in tracking and putting down a massive black bear that had been wounded by a poor shot from a bow-hunter.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ClexOj6S_OE
 
Wait.......weight!

We kick the bear question around a great deal. I don't live in bear country, but do have a good bit experience with black bears. Not seen a grizzly nor a mountain lion. Or a polar bear!;) But I choose to be armed, always.

I have spent a great deal of time wandering about in the woods, both paid (hey, somebody had to do it:)), or on my own pursuits. Working, you toted what they told you too. On my own time, my handguns got progressively smaller, through not in power. A 6 inch M27 and M29 got retired for by a 4-5/8" inch B-hawk, then a 629 .44 mag mountain revolver. Reason, smaller and lighter...more portable. The stainless requires less maintenance too.

Bought a Glock 20 by accident. Fascinated by the 10mm, went to buy a Colt Delta....sold, but the fella had the G20, I had the money, sold! The G20 quickly replaced my mag revolvers. Magnum power ( not quite a .41, but a tad more than the .357 with heavy slugs) in a flat, compact EASY to carry package that was durable, easily stripped if dunked and offered a big increase of ammo in hand. My mag revolvers don't go to the woods much for the past 25 years since.

The poly frame is much softer to shoot than a steel gun. The G20 is much milder than my 1911 with the same loads. Also, 1911 pistols in 10mm are heavy, noticeably more so than .45acp counterparts. I'd be curious to know the loaded weight of the 629 mtn.44 v. 1911/10mm v. G20. Even if closer in weight than perceived, the lack of hammer spurs, target sights,, and cylinder width make the G20 the choice for that role for me.
 
Yes. I never said use jhp. And what I said was FMJ in any handgun round is going to fall about the same distance of penetration in gel.

Higher velocity increases drag. FPS isn't the magical answer. 10mm isn't the magical answer.

The slow 9mm HST in 150gr is about the top of all handgun jacket bullets for depth and expansion. It goes 800fps. That was in a compact m&p on luckgunner.
 
There are lots of stories of 600ish pound black bears being hit by cars, shot by Hunters.
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Yep, there are freakishly big individuals of all species, here and there, including people. Same interweb source that said 350lbs was avg big AZ black bear also said state record black bear was 703lbs.

I can remember in the 70s when the New York record was broken when someone took a 600lb black bear. Described at the time as "a freak of nature" the 600ln blackie was 1/3 again bigger than previous record bears and nearly double the size of a "big" black bear, and most bears in that area don't get to "big" status (unless they scare you :rolleyes:)

I worked with a fellow we called "Bear". Great guy, 6'8" and after months of dieting, he got down to 330lbs.

I've had relatives that go over 7' tall. And some over 300lbs, one that hit 400. Most of us are nowhere near that big. My mother was 4'10" (and a half!, Damnit!!) and the most she ever weighed in her life was 110lbs. People, and animals come in all sizes.

One thing you can count on, Murphy is still on the job and if you're armed to take out T.Rex, you'll probably A) never see one, B) meet Godzilla, or C) get taken out by a pack of raptors...:D:rolleyes:
 
Eddiejoe said:
Seriously though, I'm not too far from my favorite LGS, so I'll stop in and see what they have.
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I don't know, I always felt they went under gunned into the Jurassic park series.

What was it, spas 12 shotguns and 223 rifles? in the first movie

the 2nd movie had
600 nitro express,
30-06 and
300win mag among others

3rd movie had
50bmg bolt gun
Mk19
Browning 50bmg belt gun

getting into the jurasic world series
marlin 45-70
M1A1 308

Jurasic world, fallen kingdon
Scar 308
revolver 500S&W mag

most has some form of 12ga or 223 rifle

in short, for raptor.... I would go with nothing less than a 44mag. but would lean towards a Magnum Research BFR in 45-70.
 
In the hurry up and go to 9mm and .223 for LEOs, most of the Game Wardens and very Rural LEOs I know still carry a 12g loaded with full pop slugs. They want to be able to stop a Cow, Elk, Bear, engine block, whatever, right now. I can't fault the choice in that, in most cases, they are rolling up on something like that, they know what is wreaking havoc.

Hiking in the woods, you might not get the chance to deploy a long gun that is not in your hands, so a powerful handgun makes sense, if holstered.

At ones home, I'd still opt for a slug gun, or a .45-70 lever gun over any handgun I'd want to shoot.
 
You all gave great advice and I appreciate it! We went to my LGS and handled both the Glock 40 and the Springfield XDM Compact. The XDM just didn't fit well, and my pinky was dangling, so a hard no on that.
The Glock allowed a full grip. It was heavier than I expected. And seemed muzzle-heavy.
I talked with the store employee, about what I was doing. He said the .357 would do the job, just like many of the knowledgeable people here did.
As we left the store, I told my wife that I wasn't sure I needed the gun. This morning, I think I do. I need to see if there's a range where I can rent one. ​
 
There is absolutely no reason not to consider the Glock 20. That will change that feeling you didn't like in the Glock 40.

The Glock 40 doesn't really fit what you are wanting it for.
 
wild cat mccane said:
There is absolutely no reason not to consider the Glock 20. That will change that feeling you didn't like in the Glock 40.
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Agree. One of my 10mms is a G20SF. Just put better sights on it, a 3.5# connector and an overtravel screw. It shoots well, carries light.
 
OP said:
This will not be used for concealed carry, so full-size is the way I want to go.
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Once Glock began offering the 6.2" longslide Gen4 G40, that gun became their defacto "full-size" 10mm model. The G20 became the "midsize" model, and the G29 remains the "compact" 10mm model.

Note the quotation marks; I'm using those "size" terms loosely and a bit differently than Glock does.

OP now says:
As we left the store, I told my wife that I wasn't sure I needed the gun. This morning, I think I do. I need to see if there's a range where I can rent one. ​
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Are you talking about a G40 or a G20?

If you're really on the fence, see if you can find a range that has both for rent and run a box of ammo thru each (with your wife's permission, of course :rolleyes: ). Both models will have the exact same grip size (if the G20's a Gen4) and the same mag capacity.

Assuming you bring along, or the store stocks, real 10mm ammo to shoot through each gun, you'll find the G40 imparts a smoother recoil impulse versus the G20.

The G20 obviously gets the nod if you intend carry it concealed, but you indicated otherwise. If your intended carry mode is open carry only, then it doesn't matter. Pick the one you like and shoot best.
 
Yes. However, it's for defense while out for a stroll.

Exactly why I brought up the bear spray.

A 6" barrel on an almost 10 inch long gun with no real advantage on the actual ballistics of round fired? Nope. By this logic, everyone should carry a G34 for ballistic reasons. That isn't a thing.

So a whole bunch-o negatives for size and weird feel from the guy that picked it up. All for something that isn't "hunting" but surprise defense.

The smaller Glock 20 should have been the first recommendation. And I'm the guy saying there isn't a need for it. I think the OP will enjoy the size difference though between the revolver and the auto.

Glock 20. If you pick on up in your hand, I bet you'll go with that :)

As someone assumed I was recommending JHP for bear, I wasn't, I again would hope that others would point out the difference in FMJ on target isn't great between the rounds. If 357mag FMJ worked, 9mm? 40?
 
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Anybody know the weight of a 10mm cartridge? I couldn't find a weight for the loaded round, but did find .357 and .45acp.

I also looked at the listed weights for the GLock 40 (35.45oz) and a 6" Model 28 (44oz.)

What it appears is that (and using the .45acp weight in place of 10mm) that a Glock with 15 rounds of 10mm will be within a couple oz of the weight of a S&W M28. and 6rnds of .357 Mag is just a bit under 4 oz.

SO, it appears that a fully loaded (15) Glock is going to be less than half a pound lighter than a fully loaded model 28. Perhaps only 5 or 6 oz, these are just estimates.

You get more rounds, and a flatter package, but not a large saving in weight, it seems to me.

And as to the compact guns, yes, smaller and lighter, BUT, my experience is that smaller guns (in heavier calibers) are more difficult to shoot well than larger ones, so more practice is needed to reach and maintain the same level of skill.

And smaller guns are less comfortable to shoot, which means the practice is more difficult. There's a trade off, one only you can make for yourself, between what carries easiest, and what you can use the best.

My experience is that bears don't read very well, and are not at all impressed by what your gun says on it, the size of the hole in the barrel, or how many shots it holds. The only thing they seem to be impressed with are hits in vital spots, so if keeping my old, tired butt from being clawed or chawed is the priority, I'd choose the gun I feel I am best at shooting over one that is easier to carry, but, that's just me. :rolleyes:
 
And the best news of all, there is an entire industry built on your fear of a bear that you'll never meet or never have to shoot :)

A Glock 17 is ALMOST the exact same size as the G20. The Glock 17 is a full sized gun.

The longer than life 34, 35, and 40 are competition guns. That's why the Glock labeled on their own website calls them "long slides" with 24N pull weight vs the full size pull weight of 28N. Let's not call a Glock 34 a full size. It's a competition built gun.
 
A Glock 17 is ALMOST the exact same size as the G20. The Glock 17 is a full sized gun.
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Yup, the G20 is 0.08" thicker and 0.05" longer than the G17. The biggest difference between the two guns is that the G20 weighs about 6oz more.
I also looked at the listed weights for the GLock 40 (35.45oz) and a 6" Model 28 (44oz.)

What it appears is that (and using the .45acp weight in place of 10mm) that a Glock with 15 rounds of 10mm will be within a couple oz of the weight of a S&W M28. and 6rnds of .357 Mag is just a bit under 4 oz.
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If you're going to compare a 10mm to a revolver and you're concerned about weight and size, go with a Glock 20 (~5oz lighter and 1.5" shorter than the G40), and only load it with 6 rounds (~4oz) for a total weight of about 34oz. That would make it 14oz lighter than the .357Mag with the same number of rounds on board.

If you wanted to carry another 9 rounds, then it seems to me that the reasonable approach would be to factor that extra weight into both sides of the equation, not just one. :D

Frankly though, getting back to the issue of weight/size, I'm not sure why one would go with a 6" bbl for the revolver if that's a concern. Going with a 4"bbl would knock off 3 ounces of weight making the weight difference now just under 3/4 of a pound.

Dimensionally, the G20 is 8" x 5.5" x 1.34" and a 4" M28 is about 9.3" x 5.5" x 1.7"

As far as shootability goes--and I agree that's important--having shot a good deal of .357Mag through revolvers and a good deal of 10mm through the Glock 20, I'd have to give the edge to the Glock 20 by a significant margin--especially for an encounter when one is likely to be in a hurry and therefore shooting the revolver DA.
The only thing they seem to be impressed with are hits in vital spots, so if keeping my old, tired butt from being clawed or chawed is the priority, I'd choose the gun I feel I am best at shooting over one that is easier to carry, but, that's just me.
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All of the above means that you can have both. A gun that's significantly easier both to carry and to shoot. ;)
 
And, just to send things veering in another random direction :rolleyes:...

How long have you had your Model 28? Do you consider it reliable, and dependable??

I feel that way about mine. I also feel that way about SOME of my semi autos, ones I've had for a long time and run a lot of rounds through without issues.

Now, you're looking at replacing a known, proven reliable with a new, unknown, and unproven pistol.

One that may potentially be fine, OR may have any or all of the flaws and drawbacks of semi autos. You don't know, you CAN'T know which until after you've spent a few hundred dollars cost of ammo to find out.

Contrary to myth / popular belief, I've experienced a Glock that jammed. I've experienced an AK 47 that jammed. If its a semi auto, it can jam. Shouldn't, usually doesn't, but can. And yes, so can a revolver. Point here is known dependability vs new and unknown operation.

And then, there is how well you. personally, can use it. And, by that I mean, new gun, new cartridge, going from a DA N frame S&W revolver to a semi auto, (of some type) its just very different and there is a learning curve.

This is also why shooting several hundred rounds with the new semi auto BEFORE carrying it for use is an important thing. Not just to see that the gun works, but also to train you, and familiarize you with the gun and what it does, and doesn't do.
 
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