I Want To Buy A 10MM
- Thread starter Eddiejoe
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wild cat mccane
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"Mod.2" line
The .357Mag and the 10mm are very similar in terms of energy and momentum.
The .357Mag can be loaded slightly hotter in terms of energy when using light bullets, but the 10mm will have a slight advantage in momentum with heavy bullets. Mostly they just overlap each other.
You might be able to justify a 10mm over a .357Mag on the basis of additional capacity or maybe shootability, but in terms of just looking at the ballistics, there's not enough difference between the two to make a practical difference, in my opinion.
No. It's not.
The unbiased studies of human-bear encounters demonstrate that spray is only consistently effective on bear's that are curious and non-aggressive.
Against aggressive bears (startled, enraged, charging) the use of spray alone has resulted in the human(s) being mauled or killed.
Only gunfire (if done in time) will stop or turn the charge of aggressive bears without resulting in the human(s) being mauled or killed.
More here: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-truth-about-bear-spray-vs-bullets/The claim that bear spray works better than a firearm to protect you from bears is junk science.
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wild cat mccane
New member
This is a gun forum.
If you really want to learn about bears, you go to a hiking forum.
I'm a weekend hiker in Utah. I shoot well and have no problem picking up most guns and shooting well.
I carry bear spray and don't find my bear defense info from gun forums.
Now that behind, it's clear the OP just wants a 10mm. Go for it. The truly helpful thing I'll say, 40 is usually measured with a compact handgun barrel and 10mm typically is measure not with a compact barrel. If barrel length matters (and it really seems to matter to 10mm shooters), I would find comparisons of 40 in the same barrel length and *I* would hunt for the actual bullet I would want (XTP for bear if I wanted JHP) vs the speed of a bullet not designed to before with massive speed or a bullet that needs massive speed to perform at all.
And then I would look really hard at what all copper rounds do if I wanted to shoot "outdoor" labeled FMJ. Hard cast isn't magic. It has copper in it to harden it. An all copper round is going to be harder than any blend of softer metals found in "hard cast." Weight also doesn't seem to matter in all copper rounds as they just zip through time and space compared to FMJ.
If you really want to learn about bears, you go to a hiking forum.
I'm a weekend hiker in Utah. I shoot well and have no problem picking up most guns and shooting well.
I carry bear spray and don't find my bear defense info from gun forums.
Now that behind, it's clear the OP just wants a 10mm. Go for it. The truly helpful thing I'll say, 40 is usually measured with a compact handgun barrel and 10mm typically is measure not with a compact barrel. If barrel length matters (and it really seems to matter to 10mm shooters), I would find comparisons of 40 in the same barrel length and *I* would hunt for the actual bullet I would want (XTP for bear if I wanted JHP) vs the speed of a bullet not designed to before with massive speed or a bullet that needs massive speed to perform at all.
And then I would look really hard at what all copper rounds do if I wanted to shoot "outdoor" labeled FMJ. Hard cast isn't magic. It has copper in it to harden it. An all copper round is going to be harder than any blend of softer metals found in "hard cast." Weight also doesn't seem to matter in all copper rounds as they just zip through time and space compared to FMJ.
Tin and antimony are commonly used to harden lead. While it is possible to alloy copper in, it is extremely uncommon and I know of no major or boutique makers who do it. Most hard cast is in the range of 22bhn, and on loads exceeding 1200fps, it generally has a copper gas check on the base of the bullet. copper has a bhn of 89, and they are not magic bullets, they just allow for unconventional designs.
wild cat mccane
New member
I stand corrected on content of hard cast 
The Kel Tec forum had a thread on hard cast shattering on bone, which I never heard got brought up by hard cast fans. In my world of understanding, metal becomes brittle when it
I guess it's my opinion that Legigh bullets, just purchased by Wilson Combat, is better for an outdoor load and that all FMJ do the same thing on target.
I have provided incorrect info, but the general cut of my jib is pretty much confirmed by others here too
The Kel Tec forum had a thread on hard cast shattering on bone, which I never heard got brought up by hard cast fans. In my world of understanding, metal becomes brittle when it
I guess it's my opinion that Legigh bullets, just purchased by Wilson Combat, is better for an outdoor load and that all FMJ do the same thing on target.
I have provided incorrect info, but the general cut of my jib is pretty much confirmed by others here too
I'll say that unless you WANT a 10mm, you don't NEED a 10mm, the 357 is plenty and really a better option. No it's high capacity, but do you really NEED high capacity? The thing is, yeah the 10mm is okay, but it's still a service cartridge in the same league as the .40 and .45, etc. Recoil isn't bad, not entirely different than a .40 or .45 which brings me to another point, why 10mm? Why not a polymer gun? A Glock 20 doesn't recoil bad and is a better platform with less recoil than steel framed guns, which don't flex and usually have a high bore axis.
So again, if what you really want is a 10mm, fine but just get a Glock 20. If you don't, then don't buy one. Ammo is expensive for it and frankly I don't think it's any more effective than a .40 or .45. I've had many 10mms and its a good option, but it's not anything special either, if a .40 or 45 (or 357 Mag) can't do it, neither will 10mm.
So again, if what you really want is a 10mm, fine but just get a Glock 20. If you don't, then don't buy one. Ammo is expensive for it and frankly I don't think it's any more effective than a .40 or .45. I've had many 10mms and its a good option, but it's not anything special either, if a .40 or 45 (or 357 Mag) can't do it, neither will 10mm.
Fmj and the lehigh extreme penetrators act a little different. While I agree they penetrate similarly, the scalloped design of the lehighs tends to take tissue into the slots and eject it out the side creating a much better wound channel than a round nose fmj. A good friend of mine loves his wide flat nose lead bullets. And having put some through ballistics gel I can see why the flat nose does something to make the wound channel bigger, even then the lehighs we shot that day. And better than round nose fmj. I'm hoping to try some truncated cone flat points soon to see if they act similarly to the wide flats.I stand corrected on content of hard cast
The Kel Tec forum had a thread on hard cast shattering on bone, which I never heard got brought up by hard cast fans. In my world of understanding, metal becomes brittle when it
I guess it's my opinion that Legigh bullets, just purchased by Wilson Combat, is better for an outdoor load and that all FMJ do the same thing on target.
I have provided incorrect info, but the general cut of my jib is pretty much confirmed by others here too
With all that said, there is no wonder bullet. But many things are better than round nose fmj.
The so-called "extreme" penetrator isn't - hardcast is much better. But I can understand if you can't own lead anymore. The EP is a marketing gimmick. Here is some info by a fellow who actually tested these things: https://general-cartridge.com/2019/06/09/underwood-xtreme-penetrators-clear-ballistics-gel/
wild cat mccane
New member
Your link follows all other testing. The all copper "cross" shaped Legigh bullets went extreme depths?
" 47 inches from 9mm"
No caliber in FMJ truncated or round nose is going 47" in gel.
It's not a gimmick to say they truly are "extreme" in penetration. Nothing bests that? and it comes from the same company you are going to have to buy from to get "nuclear" 10mm that will do less.
" 47 inches from 9mm"
No caliber in FMJ truncated or round nose is going 47" in gel.
It's not a gimmick to say they truly are "extreme" in penetration. Nothing bests that? and it comes from the same company you are going to have to buy from to get "nuclear" 10mm that will do less.
I've tested a couple 44mag hardcast bullets on Elk knuckles. The first, a Lazercast 240gr "silver" bullet broke up and exited in pieces. The second, a 240gr "Keith",. 18bhn, by MBC exited intact. My observation is that it is entirely possible to make a cast lead bullet too hard.I stand corrected on content of hard cast
The Kel Tec forum had a thread on hard cast shattering on bone, which I never heard got brought up by hard cast fans. In my world of understanding, metal becomes brittle when it
I guess it's my opinion that Legigh bullets, just purchased by Wilson Combat, is better for an outdoor load and that all FMJ do the same thing on target.
I have provided incorrect info, but the general cut of my jib is pretty much confirmed by others here too
The vanilla hardcast exceeded 64" - the max of blocks he had setup.
More EP testing:https://general-cartridge.com/2017/...0gr-xtreme-penatrater-in-clear-balistics-gel/
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If you're already carrying a .357 Magnum, then there's really no need for a 10mm Auto, as they both perform roughly the same when comparing full-power loads out of similar barrel lengths. So you're better off just buying some hardcast lead .357 Magnum loads for your Revolver and calling it a day.
Unless of course you just want a 10mm and this whole Bear thing is to justify it to the Missus, in which case I would recommend a EAA Tanfoglio Witness. It's a nice, full-size pistol based on the design of the original Bren-TEN 10mm Auto Pistol.
Unless of course you just want a 10mm and this whole Bear thing is to justify it to the Missus, in which case I would recommend a EAA Tanfoglio Witness. It's a nice, full-size pistol based on the design of the original Bren-TEN 10mm Auto Pistol.
I lean toward a 10MM for capacity, and because I had thought it was a better performer than the .357 I have carried. I haven't checked the loaded weights, but I know the polymer guns will start out lighter.
It looks like the Glock 40, the Springfield XDM, and the Smith M&P are my best choices. Now, I need to find a range to rent one at.
It looks like the Glock 40, the Springfield XDM, and the Smith M&P are my best choices. Now, I need to find a range to rent one at.
This is the standard .38 Special load, albeit under weight by 8 grains...for bear?....Something bigger, with more velocity and a heavier bullet, makes more sense.
Good spray, and a gun that you shoot well for the one to two shots you'll be lucky to get off is my recommendation. Bigger is better for one to two shots...good luck... Rod
Steve in Allentown
New member
A jacketed hollowpoint is the last thing to use on a grizz. You need as much penetration as possible to get through all the fat, muscle, and bone in those critters. Hence, heavy hardcast bullets. A .45-70 with an Aimpoint on top would be my choice.
Avoidance is the optimal strategy. Making noise to alert the beasts of your presence is never a bad idea. Taking a well trained dog with you that won't go running off to chase a rabbit is a good idea. The dog will know there's a critter around long before you will. Early warning will prevent a nasty surprise and give you more options. The dog's smell and/or barking may cause the bear to leave the area. The dog may revert to instinct and attack the bear which will give you time to run away. Realize that the dog is unlikely to survive the encounter.
Well, if all's you want to do is have a bear dropping side arm then I guess 10mm will be ok, but ther's many better and more practical choices. Just be realistic if you plan to recreational shoot a 10mm as well as defend against bears , loaded ammo is VERY expensive. I have the 10mm Kimber Target long slide and it packs a pretty stout wallop (but NOT "harsh") for a 6" 1911 but shoots outstanding it's my #2 best shooter resulting from the longer sight radius and Kimber's tight action fit.