I want SMALLEST most RELIABLE .380?

Ditto on the Colt Pocketlite!

I've carried several small handguns over the last few years and found the same problems as others have mentioned above - to big or unreliable or both.
I thought I had the problem solved in an AMT Backup - the single action model which I found reliable AND small (this is an older discontinued model). However, it's a painful little sucker to shoot and it has no sights.
I recently had opportunity to shoot a Mustang Pocketlight and was SOLD immediately! This piece is slightly larger than the AMT but with its aluminum frame, far lighter. The locked breech makes it feel like a .22 and it actually has decent sights! It's fun to shoot and any beer can within twenty yards is a dead beer can.
I've put 250+ rounds of ball through it and 100 rounds of Federal Hydra-Shocks with ZERO malfunctions.
The AMT now resides in the back of the gun cabinet and the Mustang is in my jacket.

There isn't much I would change on this. The plastic guide rod and grips have to go. I wish somebody offered an aftermarket rear sight with a snag free profile - other than that it's pretty "slippery" as is. Colt's marketing people must be out of their minds to d/c this pistol!
 
Yes, the Kahr, fantastic pistol that it is, is far too heavy and the newer lighter ones are too large.

I think the Pony Pocketlite is likely to maintain it's position at the top of my wish list for a .380.

With the precision and accuracy of Kahr engineering and manufacturing; wouldn't it be wonderful if they made a small, accurate, reliable pisto. in .380 and wouldn't it be great if it were designed and made ONLY (and therefore smaller) in titanium????????
 
Like ateam, I also like the CZ-83 in .380
I have one and get consistant 1-2"
groups at 7yds. I'm sure someonw who
is a good shot could improve on those
groups without much effort.
It's fun to shoot too...be
prepared for a little "bite"
with the .380 if you are not
already using one. I've never had
a jam and CZ hi-caps ran me $20
each. (13 rnds)
My .02
 
I've never seen a CZ-83.

Are they the same size and weight as a Makarov?

I see that they make one in 9x18 with a polygon barrel!!!!!!! I've found the polygon barrel to be unusually accurate in other pistols!
 
Jody,
I think the 83 is smaller. I don't own the other.
The 83 is a bit on the heavy side, but boy it fit's my large hands like a glove. I kept the factory grips too.
Worth a look! Check out the CZ Forum (I think it's back up and running...it's been kind weird these past few days)
Here is the CZ website...now remember, you are going there to look at GUNS!

http://www.czub.cz/homea.htm

from the following link, go to guns etc...

http://www.unitedforums.com/
 
Keith Rogan: I have the Colt Mustang. Novak makes an aftermarket rear sight for it including night site models. Based on the product description at Brownells I would say that it would work on your gun. Mounting this sight requires milling of the slide. Even if you do consider this a last ditch defensive gun that you intend to use only by pointing, I would want the option of using sights if the situation allowed. I also want to be able to enjoy shooting the gun recreationally, which is the primary reason I buy any gun.
 
CZ-83 is larger than Makarov. I have handled one in a gun show, and the grip felt about the same size as in my HK USP Compact, with same length of barrel, but narrower slide. It has a double stack mag and it is about the same size as Beretta .380s. If you are searching for a small gun CZ-83 is not for you, even 9mm Kahrs K9 are smaller than it.

Ossi
 
Well, actually, the Mak and CZ are pretty
close in most areas...
(I am comparing the CZ .380 to the Mak .380)

Overall Length--CZ 173mm/Mak 161mm
Barrel length--CZ 96mm/Mak 93.5mm
Empty Wt. w/empty mag--CZ .650kg/Mak .730kg
Capacity--CZ 13 +1/Mak 8 +1

I agree, with Ossi, the CZ grip is nearly
identical in girth to the Browning BDA/Beretta .380
(model 24?)
If you want a single stack narrow/thin grip
stay away from the CZ-83. It depends upon what fits you best.
Oh, and one other important point, the Mak is a LOT
cheaper and certainly a proven gun for the money.
Good Luck.
 
I have a Colt Pony PocketLite and love it. Have it dehorned and it makes an excellent pocket gun. Better yet, have the tang cut off.
 
Hmmm...

"Sigs (not accurate enough)"

Since SIGs are legendary for their accuracy [quality, reliability, et al.], this is somewhat confusing.

Hope your opinion isn't based on a sample size of one. ;)
 
Speaking only of the little Sig .380

In general, especially the newer Sig pistols seem quite accurate in larger calibers.

My sample size, sadly, was well over a dozen of the little .380 Sigs, perhaps three dozen if I include all the ones I shot only a few mags through as they were one of the best sellers in an elite little gun shop where I worked in Florida several years ago. I kept hoping for a more accurate one and would take most, if not all, of the new Sig .380s out to the range (in the next room) when they came in.
Some pistols shoot better for some people than they do for others, as you likely know. For me none of the Sigs would suffice, not even close, in the accuracy department... no matter how badly I wanted them to.
 
I'd look around for a Colt Mustang Pocketlite. I have two Mustangs, one a Pocketlite and a standard framed one. They are very reliable, and quite accurate. Also, even thought the Pocketlite is only 12.5oz empty, it's felt recoil is very light due to the locked breech design. It's still the pocket pistol I reach for, and I own a Keltec P32 and an NAA Guardian...
 
Triton Quik Shok Report

I picked up a 20 round box of quik shok in 380 this afternoon and took it to the range this evening.

Worked without a problem in the Mustang. Shot eight rounds through it.

Ran two 6 round mags through my de horned Pony. Worked fine. Fired one mag as quickly as I could pull the trigger.

It does have a noticable snap over any other 380 ammo I have tried, but it was not uncomfortable.

Some recommend 200 or more rounds to be sure of reliability in a particular pistol. That would come to about $160 and would definitely accelerate the wear on the pistol.


Given the way it behaved and felt, I think I'll switch to it for daily carry.
 
Got it!

"For me none of the Sigs would suffice, not even close, in the accuracy department... no matter how badly I wanted them to."

The P230/232 series doesn't fit you, most likely because they just aren't comfortable...and what's uncomfortable, you don't shoot well.

That's the way I am with Tupperguns...very acceptable pistols, but they just don't *feel* right in my hands [well, maybe with the exception of the newest...the G36].

I can force myself to shoot them accurately, but why bother when there are so many other good choices that feel natural? ;)
 
The BIG difference in Quick-Shok ammo is the way it disrupts a water soaked medium of any kind.

If you get a chance take some of your best .380 defense ammo, one or two rounds of each, get some hydroshockable targets and take a couple of rounds of Quick-Shok.

I've used watermelons, cabbage, very large cans of vegetables, 2 1/2 gallon water jugs, out of date hams, a few deer that were not picked up from the butcher and were due to be thrown away and some predators.

In every case the Quick-Shok performed well beyond anything else... WELL beyond!!! In my opinion there is nothing anyone can say that is believable about the difference, a person has to see it for themselves and then no one will believe them either! :)
 
Jody,

I agree with Ben in reccomending a step up in power and going to a 9mm. You have many more choices in ammo and the recoil is about on par with a straight blowback .380.

Actually, I've shot .380's that seemed worse than a 9mm. Any of the recent crop of "mini" autos will serve you well,I'm partial to the glock mini autos.

You Stated>>
I would love to have a very small .380 that is reliable. I know there are several out there. I have had Walthers (unreliable) and Sigs (not accurate enough) and both are WAY too large and heavy by today's standards. <<

I agree, a weapon such as the Sig, Walters...and Including the Mak are large weapons considering the caliber, but the fact is that once you get smaller than that, shooting a straight blowback action can be rather nasty in a .380.

If your heart is set on a .380 then I would look for a range that offers rental guns to shoot or find some freinds willing to let you try their weapons prior to purchasing one. That is the only surefire way to go. And if ya wanted to get talked into a .45 G36..lemme know..that's what I carry everyday..lol

Good Shooting,
RED
 
Jody,

Oops..my apology, I just read where you worked in a gunshop and had the opportunity to try various weapons, so you don't need the caliber lecture.

My question is that..other than peace of mind, why is your heart so set on the .380?


Good Shooting,
Red
 
Redlg155,

Actually, my heart WAS set on a Glock mini .45 too. BUT, when I went to get it, it was just too large for me. The two reasons for the .380 are size and weight, I still have not ever seen or shot one of the little Colts, but they seem perfect.

Jody
 
My wife has been carrying and shooting her Colt Government Model Pocketlite for several years. It is reliable and accurate. Jim Hall
 
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