I want SMALLEST most RELIABLE .380?

At 12.5 oz. unloaded I personally think no .380 comes close to the Colt Mustang Pocketlite in terms of size efficiency(except the DAO Pony Pocketlite). Unfortunately--as most of us know--both have been discontinued but you can still find them if you look hard enough. Mine has never jammed in over 1000 rounds (of assorted JHPs).

Stay safe y'all.
 
The Colt Pony Pocketlite if weight is important. The NAA is not out yet so reliability is still a question. There are some Seecamps in .380 if you need the absolute smallest, is smaller than the NAA.
 
Jody, I mentioned the above pistols and thier links because they are the most common and most reliable .380's. There are plenty of small 9's too as the others have mentioned. Look at the Kahr MK-9.

I doubt you are that you are going to like shooting a NAA Guardian .380 ACP. I've heard they are high maintance. I tried findig the review of them that I used to have, but i can't right now... sorry. The spring is so compressed and heavy that it wears quickly. Maybe you can look at a Beretta Tomcat. Or take a step up in power and get a Glock 26.

Ben
 
Jody,
Look for a Mustang or Pocketlite. I've been carrying one as a back up and sometime primary for about 10 years now. It has never jammed and I carry Hydra-shoks in it. I can shoot 149 out of 150 in quals. everytime. (I refuse to shoot a perfect score) Small reliable and accurate to 20 yards.
 
I am thinking very stongly about one of the little Colts, especially the Pony but perhaps either one. What more can you tell me about them? Price? Any particular things to watch out for?

I've looked at most if not all of the little 9s and they are just larger, thicker and heavier than I like. The Keltec is great except that the accuracy was horrible and so I let it go... I like my little FEG 9x18 (smaller than a PPK and MUCH lighter) but it is not reliable enough and needs some work on the magazine well.

I shot the Kahr again today and it is just too thick and too heavy for me. It is wonderfully accurate and dependable but not the right one for me...

Jody
 
It seems there are a few of the NAA .380s out there and they are NOT well received for reliability...

It looks like the Pony Pockelite or Stainless one or the other...
 
Buy a pre-agreement S&W Airweight Bodyguard in .38 spl. and a box of Hydroshoks.

5 Rounds in an air weight is light. Reliability is the greatest, accuracy is more than enough at ranges of 30 feet (or 10 yds) or slightly more and forget both the .380 (which is an obsolete cartridge) and the semi-auto which is heavier than the Airweight and less reliable.

It may not be cool to you but if you want accuracy, lightweight, and reliabilty, its your man.

PigPen (a 1911 and BHP man who also owns a pre-agreement Airweight)

Caution: Post agreement S&W don't work well and should be avoided.
 
Go for a Colt Pony Pocketlite

At 13 oz it is painless to carry and the two I have are absolutely reliable, never a jam or a problem. The locked breech tames the kick completely.

I also have a Mustang .380 that I just had out to shoot this afternoon. I can easily hit center of mass at 21 feet. It feels, aims and fires just like the Pony.

The Pony is DAO, just like a revolver. No safety except you.

If you want ultra cool, take your Pony to the smith and have it de horned. One of my Pony's does not even look like a pony any more, its de horned and black. This is what mine looks like now

http://www.colt380.com/deepcover.htm

Tell us about the Quick Shock ammo you have discovered.



[Edited by Coltdriver on 03-11-2001 at 08:27 PM]
 
The Quick-Shok ammo is interestingly far more effective at hydroshocking than anything else I've ever seen. In .380 it is 90 grain at 1050 fps.

It is a hollowpoint bullet pre-fragmented into three pieces that split at about a 8 inches to a foot inside of the hydraulic medium; even when that medium is covered with several layers of denim or leather. http://www.triton-ammo.com/index1.html

For reasons of hydrodynamics that I don't fully understand the mathematics but simply the three pieces set up a disharmonious counterwave between themselves that interract and form a large cone of extreme disturbance in wet substance and the results are nearly explosive compared to other ammo.

I love the look of your deep cover pony. I guess we are talking close to a thousand bucks for pistol and the work...
 
Not close to a thousand bucks....

Jody,

I paid 450 for the colt pony new, unfired. Got it via http://www.younggunsonline.com via the gunbroker auction. Great people to deal with.

I paid my smith $75 to "melt" it and precision crown the muzzle.

Another $50 to coat it.

I did pick up the steel guide rod and the 12 pound wolf spring from Scott, but thats it. $25 more.

Took a while, had to sell a couple of other pistols. Bye Bye Walther PPK/S and Beretta Tomcat. Don't miss em a bit.

Just as a good data point, my used mustang cost $350.

The one Scott calls his deep cover is identical in external looks to mine. I had the sights milled off too.

IMHO anybody thinks they can take a bead with a set of sights in a tense situation is either a well trained professional LEO or they are fooling themselves.

I went to the triton site. Interesting ammo. Been carrying a round from RBCD, may have to try some of the Quik Shok.

The progress in ammo technology sure makes the .380 a viable carry pistol. Thanks for the pointer.
 
I agree with Coltdriver about the idea of "taking a bead" with this type of pistol. After giving this subject a lot of thought I settled on the Pony because of it's size and weight as well as the DAO feature. This is not the pistol that I would intentionally take to a gunfight, but like it or not, (even as a LEO) there are times that carrying anything bigger is not practical. I look upon this piece as a close range/last ditch effort/no way out type of weapon. Besides, I've got it, my department does not give letterhead so I am pretty much a** out for finding anything else now in the PRK. Factor it all in, I am glad I made the choice I did, when I did.

Good Luck,
Marvin
 
Walther unreliable? Must be the American PPK/S model. How about a German PPK (without /S), I have not heard them claimed to be unreliable? However, I don't know about availability of German PPK in the USA because of import restriction. Walther just switched production of PPK to Hungary (FEG plant, I think), so brand new German made PPK will not be available any more. Also, those made in Hungary are PPK/S size (longer grip than original for US restrictions).

Ossi
 
Great points! Great discussion!

My gun shop owner refused to carry the little Colts as he considered them junk. I don't understand his considerations. He didn't have specifics... And he's always carried Walthers (certainly not faultless)... In checking around the net and from you folks here, it sounds like the little Colts are pretty good pistols and with some work they sound excellent!

There is a lot to learn from the folks here, on almost anything!
 
My first Walther, a pre-64 PPK in .32 was dependable and accurate. However when the price went nuclear in '66, I let it go, and have regretted it. Since then I've owned well over 200 PPs and PPKs, PPKSs and never found one to be fully reliable even with hardball and far worse with HPs, even after throating, polishing and new springs in the magazines.

The problem with the Walther design seems to be just one thing, which was fixed in the Makarov. That is that the cartridge in the Walther is seated way to low, below the chamber, when it arrives at the top of the magazine for loading by the returning slide. Take a look at the way the Makarov has the round at the top of the magazine almost to the level of the chamber and right ready to slip in with the returning slide. The difference is huge, from a mechanical standpoint, and seems to make all the difference regarding failures to feed.

I have no idea why my first PPK functioned better. Perhaps, since I never considered it a defensive piece, I just didn't notice that it was unreliable. And, perhaps since it was my first pistol, I didn't expect it to be flawless. I don't know. It may just be a factor of selective memory which is what makes the "good old days" so good.
 
Jody, sounds you know much more about PPKs than I do... I promise I will not try to give you any more advice on that. Makarovs are indeed very reliable, my Russian Baikal in 9x18 Mak has eaten all ammo I have used without any problems. Sometimes I have hoped it to be lighter than, but maybe if made lighter it would not be that reliable.

Last year I was also looking for a small, light, reliable, comfortable to shoot etc. .380, but did not find one. Did not buy a .380 PPK (did not see one in .380 in good condition in reasonable price, did not want to take one in .32 for that size of gun), after hearing your story I might consider myself lucky. So I bought a Keltec P32, and am happy with it. Smaller caliber with less punch, but really light gun, and comfortable and accurate for the size and caliber. Will be interesting to hear if you find a .380 that fills all your requirement.

Ossi
 
Jody:

Is the Kahr P9 still too big for you? It's lighter than the MK9, though the butt is longer...

M1911
 
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