I think the Germans are winning

When the PPQ first got popular it really exploded. Locally and online they sold like hotcakes. I think they sit on shelves now because most of the people that wanted one bought one. I don't see them coming up for trade up very often locally. In fact of striker fired pistols they probably come up the least. I think the retention rate for their sales must be good.
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They are not common on the used market IMHO because their sales lag behind the other major player s in the poly market. Glock, XD and M&P sell a lot more new guns so there are a lot more used guns of those makes.

I sold my PPQ off it was reasonably priced PPQ M1 with 5 mags total for $500 it took forever to sell.

Around these parts the Walthers are selling well at a large volume LGS not that far away. Last spring they had a factory shoot with all the big vendors and Walther was there too. The Walther booth was about the busiest. It took me quite a while to try out a few of their pistols. The other vendors were pretty much no/low waiting.
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This IMHO is not the case nationally. Everything I have read they are lagging behind and I know for a fact they are working with aftermarket custom trigger makers to help develop better competition triggers for the PPQ because they need to more more poly/metal. Internally they know it is not a big seller.

I am not saying they are bad guns they aren't but outside the world of gunboards and hobbyist they are not well known and not selling well to the general buying public.
 
They are not common on the used market IMHO because their sales lag behind the other major player s in the poly market. Glock, XD and M&P sell a lot more new guns so there are a lot more used guns of those makes.

I sold my PPQ off it was reasonably priced PPQ M1 with 5 mags total for $500 it took forever to sell.
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Volume of sales I can see entering into it. Here locally that PPQ you mention would have disappeared fast. The ones that come on the used market locally are gone within a week or two. I'd also point out timing is everything because the used market in general right now is slow.
 
This IMHO is not the case nationally. Everything I have read they are lagging behind and I know for a fact they are working with aftermarket custom trigger makers to help develop better competition triggers for the PPQ because they need to more more poly/metal. Internally they know it is not a big seller.
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Thanks for sharing your opinion but only Walther knows for sure if they are satisfied with sales movement of the PPQ or not..

Compared to Glock, Ruger, and S&W most everything else is a slow seller including CZ and HK.
 
The Germans make some fine guns. I also like my CZ's, Witness, Grand Power, Sphinz, STI, DW, etc. Are we judging winning by volume sold, performance, or opinion?
 
Well this has gotten quite far off topic.

Marine6680 has already stated that by winning he meant winning as his personal favorites and he never indicated that German pistols are now the top selling pistols in the US and they never will be IMHO because in general the American buying consumer is overwhelming value oriented. In the US Sears sells a LOT more Kenmore dishwashers than Bosch does too. ;)
 
PPQ's don't last long around here when they come in. Granted they usually come in smaller batches of under a dozen but, still are gone within a few days. Seldom see them used around here.
 
Winning? More like dominating and have been for the last 40 years. SIG, HK, Glock (Austria is close enough), Walther later. If it wasn't for that 100 year old design and the slightly refined and slimed down version of that design for 9mm (BHP) what auto would we have?!? S&W. Yeah. Great.

Germans have been typically winning for me as well. Ease of use and reliability. I trust a 1911 only after Ive shot it a bit and its been to or come from a gunsmith.
 
The funny thing is you always hear these types of claims about the P99/PPQ but at the same time their sales lag. They don't sell. I have seen the same PPQs sit in the case at one of my local gun stores for the past 2 years. Glocks, XDs, Sig, Rugers etc... come and go but those PPQs just sit there. They are not over priced but there they sit.

IMHO the PPQ is a niche gun with a niche following but it is not a great seller which does not make it a bad pistol but to say that it is "winning" is a stretch. YMMV
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marketing
 
sigarms228 said:
Thanks for sharing your opinion but only Walther knows for sure if they are satisfied with sales movement of the PPQ or not..

Compared to Glock, Ruger, and S&W most everything else is a slow seller including CZ and HK.
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It is not an opinion when you know for a fact that Walther is not happy with their sales and approaches a known aftermarket trigger company, APEX, to develop a better trigger which they can offer as a factory upgrade because they are not selling enough pistols.

This is not made up. This is not my opinion based on talking to some gun counter jockey. This is real info told to me by a party with an interest in the transaction and who knows the principles involved personally.

sigarms228 said:
Well this has gotten quite far off topic.

Marine6680 has already stated that by winning he meant winning as his personal favorites and he never indicated that German pistols are now the top selling pistols in the US and they never will be IMHO because in general the American buying consumer is overwhelming value oriented. In the US Sears sells a LOT more Kenmore dishwashers than Bosch does too
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I don't think it has moved off topic. It took Marine6680 a few posts to clarify that he was using "winning" in a personal preference way. I believe that the majority of my posts are addressing why the Germans are and are not wining. In regard to the PPQ there is something about the gun that makes it a nice trigger to shoot relatively slow but not when you run it for speed which the company is aware of and is attempting to correct.

I think this is an awesome discussion. Much better than the typical I bought this and love it and everyone just says awesome I love it to... Also don't get me wrong. I am not bashing the PPQ I owned one and would still own it if I shot it more and resources are were unlimited but they are not and I wanted to get something else.

For me personally the Swiss are "winning!"





 
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Winning? More like dominating and have been for the last 40 years. SIG, HK, Glock (Austria is close enough), Walther later. If it wasn't for that 100 year old design and the slightly refined and slimed down version of that design for 9mm (BHP) what auto would we have?!? S&W. Yeah. Great.

Germans have been typically winning for me as well. Ease of use and reliability. I trust a 1911 only after Ive shot it a bit and its been to or come from a gunsmith.
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So much is missstated in this short post it is hard to take is seriously. The BHP is not a refined slimed down version of the 1911. Those who claim this do not know the history of the BHP. They do not know how it came to be what it is and who made it that way and why.

Glock is not German no matter how close Austria is to Germany. :rolleyes:

Sig Sauer really is not a German company anymore. It is headquartered and run here in the US by Cohen and has since 2004. Prior to that and the purchase by their new principles in about 2000 IIRC they were a company hemorrhaging money using old designs on old equipment and losing marketshare much like todays Colt. As much as I do not like many of the things Cohen has done at Sig he has resurrected the company but they have lost their real ties to Germany in that transition although they do leverage that link to the past in their marketing. IMHO YMMV
 
WVsig said:
It is not an opinion when you know for a fact that Walther is not happy with their sales and approaches a known aftermarket trigger company, APEX, to develop a better trigger which they can offer as a factory upgrade because they are not selling enough pistols.



This is not made up. This is not my opinion based on talking to some gun counter jockey. This is real info told to me by a party with an interest in the transaction and who knows the principles involved personally.







I don't think it has moved off topic. It took Marine6680 a few posts to clarify that he was using "winning" in a personal preference way. I believe that the majority of my posts are addressing why the Germans are and are not wining. In regard to the PPQ there is something about the gun that makes it a nice trigger to shoot relatively slow but not when you run it for speed which the company is aware of and is attempting to correct.



I think this is an awesome discussion. Much better than the typical I bought this and love it and everyone just says awesome I love it to... Also don't get me wrong. I am not bashing the PPQ I owned one and would still own it if I shot it more and resources are were unlimited but they are not and I wanted to get something else.



For me personally the Swiss are "winning!"











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APEX has been working their way through a list of manufacturers recently. They now have the M&P, P320, recently Glock, and now the PPQ. I'm pretty sure Glock didn't "need" APEX to boost sales, but it makes sense for APEX to make money wherever is possible. Knowing a guy that knows the transaction I suppose is one thing, though a bit anecdotal. I am not sure that transaction though is proof of a certain level of dissatisfaction or just smart business procedure. I think any company would like to improve their sales, even those at the top. For years Walther's partnership with S&W saw them getting very little marketing. Establishing their own distribution and getting better aftermarket support seems like a good move going forward and APEX is a well recognized entity in the firearm circles. Case in point would be the recent collaboration between SIG and GGI on the Legion series. Offer the customer something special right from the factory.
 
APEX has been working their way through a list of manufacturers recently. They now have the M&P, P320, recently Glock, and now the PPQ. I'm pretty sure Glock didn't "need" APEX to boost sales, but it makes sense for APEX to make money wherever is possible. Knowing a guy that knows the transaction I suppose is one thing, though a bit anecdotal. I am not sure that transaction though is proof of a certain level of dissatisfaction or just smart business procedure. I think any company would like to improve their sales, even those at the top. For years Walther's partnership with S&W saw them getting very little marketing. Establishing their own distribution and getting better aftermarket support seems like a good move going forward and APEX is a well recognized entity in the firearm circles.
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When someone from Walther approaches a company like APEX to develop a trigger for their gun because there is a huge segment of the market, gun games does not even consider their gun an option. They knew it was hurting their sales directly in that market and were losing that high level exposure that comes from top competitors using your gun.

Don't believe what I am saying but it is true.
 
Don't believe what I am saying but it is true.
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I'm not sure where belief comes in :confused:. What I said is merely how I see it. It's a partnership that benefits both companies and isn't unheard of in the current market. I don't have a dog in this fight, I sold the PPQ years ago.
 
It is not an opinion when you know for a fact that Walther is not happy with their sales and approaches a known aftermarket trigger company, APEX, to develop a better trigger which they can offer as a factory upgrade because they are not selling enough pistols.

This is not made up. This is not my opinion based on talking to some gun counter jockey. This is real info told to me by a party with an interest in the transaction and who knows the principles involved personally.
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It is still opinion and not fact. People tend to read into a conversation what they want. Anyone in sales is not happy enough with their sales volume and that is the nature of the game and their jobs depend on increasing sales. Apple wants to sell more iPhones ;). I am not impressed that you talked to a party blah blah blah who talked to someone blah blah blah.... and based your opinion on that. :rolleyes:
 
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It is still opinion and not fact. People tend to read into a conversation what they want. Anyone in sales is not happy enough with their sales volume and that is the nature of the game and their jobs depend on increasing sales. Apple wants to sell more iPhones . I am not impressed that you talked to a party blah blah blah who talked to someone blah blah blah.... and based your opinion on that.
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You are wrong as usual. You are too often blinded by you loyality to what you have in your personal collection and unable to understand that your subjective thoughts on your guns of choice are not universal truth.

My statements about the PPQ not selling and not being shot at in high level competition prompting Walther to initiate help to improve those sales from a well known aftermarket trigger company is fact not an interpretation. Sorry you are just flat out wrong on this one.

How many large govt LEO or Military contracts has the PPQ won? The only one I can think of is the Dutch/ Netherlands police who field P99Qs and that was only about 50,000 pistols. Can you name any sigarms228? Can you tell us why you think it is such a great seller beyond your local observations? I would be interested in hearing your facts.

Enjoy your PPQ.
 
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Why have threads I started turned hostile lately?
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People get emotionally attached to a piece of metal/plastic and when others point out it might not be exactly what they thinks it is they get upset.

I will let it go because clearly I am not going convenience the believers. ;)
 
Whether or not the PPQ is perfect doesn't matter.

I wanted a Walther, so I got one.

I enjoy owning it, if it's not a fast of a shooter, no worries... I have other pistols I like and shoot well.

My fiance loves the Walther, so that's always a good thing.
 
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