I need a better understanding of lead bullets .

dahermit : you seem to misunderstand how language and it’s evolution works . If enough people use the term and or word and those same people conclude and except it for its new term and meaning . Then it actually has a new definition , you see this countless times throughout the history of language . You can see this when comparing some words from 100 years ago to those same words today having completely different meanings now
. How do you explain live and live it’s clearly the same word and yet has completely different meanings AND pronunciations . Do you think the language Police sat around debating if live should have two meanings . Would’ve loved to be a fly on the wall when they argued about that . Ignorance is imo when someone thinks they know everything .
 
Last edited:
Then there are those mistakingly using effected when the correct term is affected and except when they really mean accept. I think I just crossed the line and became part of the vocabulary police. :eek:
 
Then there are those mistakingly using effected when the correct term is affected and except when they really mean accept.
Click to expand...

Well in those instances there are actual mistakes being made because they clearly mean one word but wrote another . I do it all the time with to/two and no/know . In the example of case head space there is no actual word or term for it . It just seems easier to write "case headspace" in a sentence then having to write "the distance from the head of the case to the datum point on the shoulder" when speaking of bottlenecked cases . ESPECIALLY when some of the biggest names in reloading use the term in the same way ( Hornady & RCBS )

Oh and I'd like to add the absolute humor in this thread now . I was just talking the other day with a member here how I hate when a thread of mine goes off topic and yet here I am blowing this thread up my self lol :o
 
A guy that used to cast his own battery plates (Edison batteries) and bullets, made a lot of poured bearings used to use caustic soda to separate alloys from lead.
I wish I'd paid more attention back then, like all teenagers, I thought he was doing things the 'Old Way' and not looking to a future where you bought everything (consumer economy).

He used caustic soda and some other fairly common additive, antimony came right to the surface.
I just can't remember what the second additive was 45+ years later.
 
That would be considered dangerous today. As a warning for those unfamiliar with the issues, antimony in the presence of sulfuric acid and heat can form an ammonia analog called stabine gas. Lethal at a level of just 50 ppm, IIRC. It was developed as a weapon gas in WWI. Arsine is the other one, due to arsenic in the lead alloy. Melting battery plates is real safety crapshoot.
 
Unclenick, he was MAKING battery plates, not recycling battery plates, among other things that required a more pure lead base.

The point was to remove components in the lead alloys that might be undesired...
Wheel weights have a crap ton of additives, recovered industral lead is an unknown.
I get adding pure lead to reduce the percentages of alloy materials, but if you could reduce the alloy materials on the front end, allowing you to work the scrap only...
 
Any of the vocabulary gurus ever say "crescent wrench", or "phillips screwdriver", or "allen wrench"? Any high tech fellers here use an "I-Pod"? I'm sure there's a bunch more examples, but I gotta get ready for church....
 
Last edited:
Quote:
Metallurgy has two 'l's', same as 'metallic'. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

...I wonder how my spelling correction program missed that.
Click to expand...

Ah, technology. Reminds me of when myself and a co-worker where in Atlanta for training. We took a cab to a restaurant, and after eating we decided to walk back to the hotel. We knew the hotel was located west of the restaurant, but she decided to use GPS to tell us which way to go. It said to turn left from the restaurant. Since it was early evening, I looked up in the sky and saw that turning right was in the direction of the setting sun. We went right.:)

Don
 
Is there a general rule from bullet weight and hardness to powder charge all else being equal ? This goes back to me seeing same weight lead bullets with very different minimum to maximum charge weights . Are those charge differences more to do with bullet profile or lead hardness ?
 
Metal_god,

Several factors in play here. First, some (most) of the manuals assume you are using swaged lead bullets and intentionally keep the velocities well below what cast bullets are capable of. Second, the data in reloading manuals (if it's even their own data) is simply where they started and where they stopped. I once called Sierra and spoke with a technician regarding what they listed as a "Maximum Load". I was told "That's simply where we decided to stop". I highly recommend the Lyman Reloading Manual and Lyman Cast Bullet Manual for lead bullet load data.

Don
 
With the Lyman manual I found I had to pay close attention to the alloy listed. If it says "Linotype", that is very hard and indicated for hotter loads, magnums, and such.
 
Linotype is simply the alloy Lyman used. The bullets cast from that alloy will weigh less, but nothing wrong with using the load data with a somewhat softer alloy if we are talking typical handgun rounds. Remember, Elmer Keith cast his .44 Magnum bullets using an alloy with a BHN of 11, as opposed to the BHN of 22 for linotype. Fit is King.

Don
 
Linotype appears to be more than "just the alloy Lyman used". They specify either #2 or Linotype, with the latter always associated with higher performance, magnums in particular.
 
Real Gun,

Those were simply the commonly used alloy of the day. Newspapers and print shop were not creating computer generated print. My dad was a printer, and when I was a kid he took me into the print room at the newspaper where he worked. The room was filled with humongous machines which were fed pigs of linotype and produced "line-o-type" that was later covered with ink and pressed against the newsprint paper to print a page of a newspaper. While you have to use a reasonable hardness of alloy depending upon the load, you are not required to use linotype simply because Lyman did in their load development from many years ago. Again, fit is king.

Don
 
That is not my understanding. Linotype is quite hard, Brinell 22, and its composition is stated on page 23 of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook; 86 lead, 3 Tin, 11 antimony. It can be duplicated rather than (s)melted from actual printing scrap. The word is used to refer to a grade of hardness. It is indicated for high velocity loads, while something quite that hard may not be necessary. It seems best not to ignore the bullet material indicated in Lyman load data.
 
That is not my understanding. Linotype is quite hard, Brinell 22, and its composition is stated on page 23 of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook; 86 lead, 3 Tin, 11 antimony. It can be duplicated rather than (s)melted from actual printing scrap. The word is used to refer to a grade of hardness.
Click to expand...

No Real_Gun, linotype is an actual material that was used in the printing industry, not just the name given to a grade of hardness. Guys casting bullets use all sorts of alloys, and are not locked in to using the exact alloy used in any particular reloading manual.

Don
 
No Real_Gun, linotype is an actual material that was used in the printing industry, not just the name given to a grade of hardness. Guys casting bullets use all sorts of alloys, and are not locked in to using the exact alloy used in any particular reloading manual.
Click to expand...
Yep, this is absolutely true. And I'll add that I have no problem with using a different alloy for any bullet mold that listed in the handgun section of Lyman's manuals.

The weight tells the story, with heavier indicating an alloy richer in lead than in Lyman's use. For the most part, I use straight wheel weights with just a minimal amount of tin added to facilitate good mold fill out, and I've found that air cooled, this will allow handgun muzzle velocities up to 1200 fps if the dia. of the bullet matches the throats of the cylinder, or up to 0.002" larger.

It's the cylinder throats that matter, given a reasonable match with the groove (not bore) dia. of the barrel. The barrel's groove dia. must be equal to or less than the cylinder throat dia. or you'll get leading and alloy hardness, beyond that of straight, air cooled wheel weights, in my experience, is distant secondary factor to correct sizing.

Given the above, (correct sizing with at least a WW alloy hardness (about 12 in my use), and a forcing cone that is not completely hopeless, leading should not be a problem. This assumes that a lube is applied that is at least as good as the old NRA formula (50-50 alox/beeswax).

For good, accurate cast bullets, there are other factors: the absence of a reduced dia. at the barrel thread, a good mold that throws bullets that are circular and of adequate dia. to fill the cylinder throatsr, and muzzle velocities commensurate with the strength of the alloy and the lube's ability to do it's work are a few worth mentioning.

But...all that said, I rarely attempt to push the velocities of my cast bullets beyond 1200 fps and rarely beyond 1100. This allows me to use cheap wheel weights and avoid leading issues, while attaining gilt edge accuracy that is important. With well inspected bullets, using the above guidelines, and a suitable powder charge, I expect less than 2" groups from my better handguns at 25 yds, and all of my S&W's.

HTH's Rod
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top