I need a better understanding of lead bullets .

Powder coat is nothing more than baked on paint.
That is not to say you can take any old paint and bake it on. Powder coatings are either polymers or epoxies that are reduced to powders that adhere to the metal via static electricity. Calling powder coating "baked on paint" is an over-simplification and not entirely accurate.
Get the latest information about powder coating cast lead bullets here:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
 
Thanks guys lots of good info here . I've been following the thread all day but only had time to respond now .

A given here is that I have cylinder throats that accept the bullet diameter without much force. A number of guns needed to be reamed to reduce pressure. It seems that the pressure is what gets you, given good bullet fit, and too hot a fire with pressure peaking too early can blow around the bullet base, even cook off coating.

Slugging the bore , I don't have the ability to "slug" my bore but I do have some Cerrosafe I've used when casting my AR chambers . I can use that to cast my forcing cone and the first inch or two of my bore . The problem with that stuff is it continues to expand over time so I'll need to get the measurements quickly . Is there anything laying around the house I can use like candle wax or something ??

In 357 Magnum I had better luck with leading using Missouri's "cowboy" bullets, Brinell 12, than I had with the "Action" bullets at 15-18.

Does a softer bullet work better in a less optimal bullet to bore diameter because the softer lead will swage better to the bore where as a harder bullet will allow gaps to remain ?

You can gas check almost any bullet whether or not the bullet is built for one.

Gas checks , I've seen them talked about and have a general understanding of them but how do you load them on a bullet ? Can they go on any commercial lead bullet or does the check need to be installed when casting your own ?

5 BHN is pure lead and used in muzzleloaders
8 is pretty soft and used for wadcutter bullets and very light loads.
10 to 12 would be good for normal 38 Special to 45 ACP velocities
14-16 is a good choice for Magnum loads
and 18+ is good for Magnum velocities and rifle loads

I'm glad 15 Brinell is considered hard . I actually went to the range today and shoot some reloads in the new gun . One of those was using the 158gr LRNFP from X-treme bullets . I only shot 6 different loads using HP-38 and 4.0gr shot one little ragged hole at 15yds so that's the nice light plinking load I'll use . The funny thing is I had always been planning on using HS-6 but of the three different sets of components I used today HS-6 was not included in any of them . I used HP-38 for the 158gr lead , CFE pistol for the 125gr XTP and A2400 for the 180gr XTP which were full power loads that really thumped . I will say the CFE pistol loads seem to heat up my cylinder more then the other powders so that may not be a good powder for lead if it burns hot like Titegroup does . I think next time I will try 158gr LRNFP with some HS-6 and push them harder then 7gr ( working up of course ) and see how those do .
 
Quote:
A given here is that I have cylinder throats that accept the bullet diameter without much force. A number of guns needed to be reamed to reduce pressure. It seems that the pressure is what gets you, given good bullet fit, and too hot a fire with pressure peaking too early can blow around the bullet base, even cook off coating.
Slugging the bore , I don't have the ability to "slug" my bore but I do have some Cerrosafe I've used when casting my AR chambers . I can use that to cast my forcing cone and the first inch or two of my bore . The problem with that stuff is it continues to expand over time so I'll need to get the measurements quickly . Is there anything laying around the house I can use like candle wax or something ??


I learned how to make slugs from YouTube. The basics are fishing weights and a cut brass case used for a mold. I had to buy a little torch.

Quote:
In 357 Magnum I had better luck with leading using Missouri's "cowboy" bullets, Brinell 12, than I had with the "Action" bullets at 15-18.
Does a softer bullet work better in a less optimal bullet to bore diameter because the softer lead will swage better to the bore where as a harder bullet will allow gaps to remain ?
I couldn't say, but the bore is not smooth, so even a good fit requires the bullet to conform to both lands and grooves.

Quote:
You can gas check almost any bullet whether or not the bullet is built for one.
Gas checks , I've seen them talked about and have a general understanding of them but how do you load them on a bullet ? Can they go on any commercial lead bullet or does the check need to be installed when casting your own ?

My gas checks will not stay on a bevel-based bullet, since there is nothing for it to grip. To install a gas check you need a sizing die, which you will want anyway when commercial bullet sizes trend a bit high in diameter.

Quote:
<snip>The funny thing is I had always been planning on using HS-6 but of the three different sets of components I used today HS-6 was not included in any of them . I used HP-38 for the 158gr lead , CFE pistol for the 125gr XTP and A2400 for the 180gr XTP which were full power loads that really thumped . I will say the CFE pistol loads seem to heat up my cylinder more then the other powders so that may not be a good powder for lead if it burns hot like Titegroup does . I think next time I will try 158gr LRNFP with some HS-6 and push them harder then 7gr ( working up of course ) and see how those do .


I use HS-6 with lead Xtreme SWC, but will note that it leaves unburned powder and cleans up better with magnum primers.
 
Powder coat is nothing more than baked on paint.

Anyone that has ever tried to remove paint and powder coating from a surface knows there is a substantial difference in durability between the two.

In any case there are other coatings out there that you can melt all the lead inside them and they will contain it until you poke a hole in the coating.

This is one of my Hi-tek coated bullets.

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Lots of lengthy replies, but the basics for reloading lead is make sure the bullets fit your gun properly ( for revolvers; same diameter as cylinder throats. For semi-autos; .002+ larger than groove diameter as a start, as long as the cartridge chambers.). Bullets need to be soft enough to obturate to seal the barrel...
 
Wheel weight's are alloys usually with a lot of contaminates in 'em.
A misleading statement. The elements that make up the Lead, Tin, Antimony, and Arsenic wheel weights are not considered "contaminants". The Tin aides the flowing quality, the Antimoney adds hardness, the Arsenic aids in heat-treat hardening of bullets made up of such. The only "contaminant" is the Zinc-based wheel weights that have become the norm. The Steel based wheel weights just float on the top. Any other debris, grease, road salt, oil, etc. just burn-off or float free to be skimmed off the top.
 
"Smelting" is done to remove the "contaminants" prior to casting...No Big Deal, and a trivial excuse for an argument...:rolleyes:
 
:D
"Smelting" is done to remove the "contaminants" prior to casting...No Big Deal, and a trivial excuse for an argument...
I agree that "contaminants" are no big deal in wheel weights. However, "smelting" is the process of extracting a metal from ore...what we do with wheel weights is just "melting" despite that fact that a lot of casters are using the term incorrectly.:D
 
Wow, another forum expert correcting vocabulary. :rolleyes: Thank you so much. I couldn't possible have continued casting after misusing that word for 22+ years...

Just wondering, did anyone see the quotation marks around the word "smelting". Or did the vocabulary gurus miss that? :D

For 99.9% of bullet casters if you say "smelting" they know you are cleaning lead for casting. Precise use of words is important, but common sense and common word use are also to be recognized...;)
 
No no , does not matter if everyone knows what you’re saying . You must say it correctly or didn’t you hear , cases don’t have headspace .:rolleyes:;):D:p
 
Trying to think of something to say about headspace but my head just spaced that term...:o I'll defer any comments about "headspace" to Mr. Guffy...
 
If one does not know something it is ignorance. If one is told the difference but still persists in his ignorance as if being ignorant then that suggests that all education is a waste of time and we may as well go back to grunting, gesticulating, and pointing. Those that say "everyone knows what is meant", seem to be suffering from the Dunning-Kruger Effect and in that case, there is truly no cure for ignorance for those such effected. Using incorrect terms are detrimental to good communication...or your grade school teachers would not have insisted otherwise. "Smelting" is not "melting" and those of us who have actually studied the difference (as in studied metalurgy), react as if someone is dragging their fingernails on a chalkboard when someone uses incorrect terms. Ignorance is not a virtue for any area of interest whether it be firearms or anything else. If you are a firearms enthusiast, you should at least attempt to be knowledgeable enough so that people will not write you off as a knuckle-dragger and take you seriously. Rant over.
 
dahermit said:
…as in studied metalurgy…

Metallurgy
has two 'l's', same as 'metallic'. Sorry, couldn't help myself. :D

I've been casting for decades but never used the term "smelting" with reference to melting that I can recall. There is smelting, melting, alloying, fusing, welding, brazing, soldering. They all seem to be incorrectly used among shooters at one time or another. We could probably start a dictionary of shooter's commonly misused terms. Here are a couple of other candidates:

Headspace. Headspace literally means the space a case head fits inside of. Do we ever need to put case heads inside other cases in normal reloading? No. So a case normally has no use for headspace, though I'm sure someone will point out that an open tip bullet jacket formed from a smaller caliber case does, in fact, put the smaller case's head inside a case. But that's inside the neck, which is not the dimension the term headspace normally brings to mind.

Obturate. Obturate has the same root as obstruct. It means to seal something off with an obstruction, as when the little Dutch boy's finger obturated the leak path in the dike by obstructing it. Most shooters use the term to mean upsetting a bullet outward against a bore by pressure and say "the bullet has been obturated", when, in fact, the upset bullet has obturated the bore, sealing it off from leaking gas as any obstruction might also do. It is the bore that becomes obturated, not the bullet. The bullet is merely upset. (Where is a crying emoji when you need it?) ;_;

Datum. A datum is a reference location from which other dimensions are measured. An object with a perpendicular hole through its surface the same diameter as a cartridge shoulder datum may be used as a case shoulder datum locating gage. So the object with a hole in it is a datum gage, but not the datum itself. A cylinder the same diameter as the chamber shoulder datum may be used as a chamber datum locating gage to determine headspace, but there are a number of additional measurements needed to locate the breech face with respect to it, so it is unusefully complicated to do.

Other examples would be interesting for the collection.

However, as mentioned earlier, the object of the exercise is to communicate clearly. If a term is misused in a way in which nobody can mistake the meaning, then whether it is correctly applied or not is of secondary importance to the communication itself. When someone says a case has headspace, I know they mean the head-to-shoulder datum length. However, I have seen sentences in which it was ambiguous as to whether "headspace" was referring to the chamber or the cartridge dimensions. In such an instance, communication is ambiguous and requires the reader to deduce the author's intended meaning from clues in the rest of the post. This is tiring to the reader, slows down how fast he can read and comprehend by forcing him to keep the potential error in mind as he does detective work to clarify meaning. Many people don't want to work that hard at reading and just blow off the post because of it.

Correct vocabulary, spelling, and punctuation have the advantage of removing ambiguity and speeding up both reading and comprehension. There is a program called Grammarly that has a free version for browsers and that reads and corrects pretty much all of the above automatically while you work in the composition window. It catches typo's of mine all the time.

Download here.

Review here.
 
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