I just don't get it.

Ya know, I think Art has a point about the 223 being more 'informal'. I like the round, but when the mail absolutely has to be delivered, I'll grab the Swift or the 260 or ramp up to the 270.
 
It is cheap and it WORKS. Is it the best.... Best for what? Is it the worst? It does the job of what its intended for. It is not meant to take an Elk. Does a great job from small varmints, up to whitetail deer, and also does a very effective job in LE/MIlitary/Self-Defense.

What is not to like?

You don't like AR's that is fine, the round is chambered in everything else under the sun as well.:rolleyes:
 
I agree with everything you both have said. Maybe I am just sick hearing about it , I mean every magazine and TV show you see that's all they talk about.
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All generalizations are false... Think about it a minute...

I think you need to get out more and shoot instead of worrying about what's buzzing on the internet and with your friends.

It's not contrarian to not like something. Its an opinion and you can not like anything you want.

I think my 375 H&H is the best all around rifle that ever hit the planet. And I can find lots of books and internet to back me up. Doesn't mean I'm right. I just should live in Africa.
 
I know a few guys here in PA that swear by a .375 H&H loaded down for dispatching Whitetail. To each his own I suppose. I hear all day long at work from the guys buying 300 win mags and this and that that you need all that stopping power... when I still generally use a .243 with a 100gr tip to kill white tail.:rolleyes:
 
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I just don't understand why so many people are fascinated with the .223 Rem.
Now don't get me wrong it's a great little cartage. But everything you read and hear you would think that it will do anything you will ever want to do with a rifle.
I understand why every new rifle that comes out is chambers in it, because people keep buying them.

Really?????:confused:
Wonder did you think the same way about the 30-06, .45 a.c.p.,
.308 Win., .243, and a host of others that do what different cartridges do?
Vesitility in thier class.
What about the .22 long rifle rimfire?
Sick of hearing about that also?

If the timeless 45-70 did all we ever needed a cartridge to do we would have no other.
I guess I don't understand whatever it is that you don't understand.
 
Although I don't consider myself "fascinated" by the .223, the velocity and hydrostatic shock are pretty devastating to water-based 'flesh'..... be it a piece of fruit, an animal, a human... watch what it does to a jug of water (turn your sound down, before hitting play - short vid)

http://youtu.be/W9ozYSLzN3o
 
I've always thought of it as the Honda Accord of the gun world.. Decent at everything you need it to do, but not necessarily great at anything.

Of course price is the exception. Its still one of the cheapest center fires you can buy.
 
I think the manufacturers push the AR15 type civilian, military styled, semi automatic, sporting rifles because they are inexpensive to build, with a high profit margin, and since these rifles are largely chambered in 223/556 that cartridge has become quite popular.

I disagree with the statement above that the AR15 is as accurate as a bolt actioned rifle. If it were, you would not see the Stolle, BAT, and Surgeon actions being used where accuracy matters, neither does one typically see an AR15 on the line at benchrest matches, which, I think all will agree, is where small groups are the touchstone for accuracy.

People like these rifles, and that is swell. Like fish, not everybody likes them, but those who like them, like them alot.
 
I just don't understand why so many people are fascinated with the .223 Rem.
Now don't get me wrong it's a great little cartage. But everything you read and hear you would think that it will do anything you will ever want to do with a rifle.
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In the eyes of some people, if the military uses it a cartridge acquires magical powers. I once had a long argument with a guy who was hellbent on replacing his 270 because the 270 didn't shoot flat enough for him. He wanted to replace it with a 308 - because "that's what the snipers use" (back then). No amount of ballistic reality could convince him that his 270 already shot flatter than a 308 ever would. :rolleyes:

The 223 IS a great cartridge - for varmints. It's one of the four cartridges I'd use if I had to build a do everything battery with the minimum number of rifles. (the others are 22LR, 30-06 and 458 WM). But I don't take it deer hunting, even though it's certainly possible to kill a deer with one. I've got a 30-06 for that, thanks.
 
I like 223 for most of the same reasons I like .308 and 30-06. Cheap brass and cheap bullets. 223 is even cheap to reload than the other 2. 223 brass lasts a damned long time in a single shot or bolt action, too. There's a wide range of bullets. 223 can be very very accurate. What's not to love?
Now, an AR chambered in .204Ruger... that would freakin' rock. Or 17WSM.
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Really? Why would that rock? What do either of these do that 223 can't do better? Especially in an AR platform. Even if your claim is that the 204 is faster and flatter shooting (and it is) 223 still is accurately moving a 35 gr bullet about +/- 4000fps in a long rifle. That's pretty dang fast and flat, too. And when 20 cal bullets are topping out around 50gr the 204 performance starts looking like 55 grain 223. That's where 204 performance and versatility end, exactly where the 223 loves to be. Neither cartridges are cheaper. AR rifles chambered in these calibers are definitely more expensive. Oh,.. and 17wsm doesn't even factor in a comparison with either 204 or 223. It falls short on speed, power, price, and availability.

I'm not trolling you on this,.. I just don't get it.
 
I never really had an opinion on the 223 until I shot one. The local range officer let me shoot his Rem 700 223 at a hundred yards and I put three bullets in a one tiny hole. To say I was impressed would be an understatement.
 
I loved mine in the service but that was the extent of it. I've gone to the range three times this year and twice I've seen someone trying to fix their disassembled $1,000 jam-o-matic.

An AR in .223/5.56 leaves a lot of bases uncovered.Elk, or pretty much any quarry larger than small deer
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or any deer where they are not legal for deer hunting like my state
 
savagecornmuffin said:
I like 223 for most of the same reasons I like .308 and 30-06. Cheap brass and cheap bullets. 223 is even cheap to reload than the other 2. 223 brass lasts a damned long time in a single shot or bolt action, too. There's a wide range of bullets. 223 can be very very accurate. What's not to love?

Really? Why would that rock? What do either of these do that 223 can't do better? Especially in an AR platform. Even if your claim is that the 204 is faster and flatter shooting (and it is) 223 still is accurately moving a 35 gr bullet about +/- 4000fps in a long rifle. That's pretty dang fast and flat, too. And when 20 cal bullets are topping out around 50gr the 204 performance starts looking like 55 grain 223. That's where 204 performance and versatility end, exactly where the 223 loves to be. Neither cartridges are cheaper. AR rifles chambered in these calibers are definitely more expensive. Oh,.. and 17wsm doesn't even factor in a comparison with either 204 or 223. It falls short on speed, power, price, and availability.

I'm not trolling you on this,.. I just don't get it.
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I dont think 223 goes at 4000 fts, more like 2.5 / 3000 fts. And I think most of the people using ar (not bolt cuz I dont know) use 55gr and 62gr bullets and not 35gr. Myself, im looking for a much heavier bullet, my colt has a 1-7 twist rate.
I reload for my 22-250, my reload are a bit hot and the average on my chronos is 3940 fts. Usually for that caluber its around 3500fts.
 
I don't think I can hit 4000 fps with anything in my 223, but I might get close. You can ramp up the 40 gr Ballistic Tip to over 3700, and I think the 35 grainer might get close to 3850 or more. I don't have my load books in front of me, but I know what the 40 grainer will do.

It's the 204 that I can't see a need for if you have a 223. The really great thing about the 223 is that you can shoot bullets from 35 grains to 80 grains or more if you have the right twist (and doesn't somebody make a 30 grainer?). You won't get that sort of versatility from a 204. That said, my BIL loves his 204. As for me, if I need a true laser beam, I'll just shoot that 35 grain leadfree Nosler and push it to 4400 or so in my Swift. I've been meaning to buy some of those.
 
What exactly does the OP want the 5.56 to do that it won't, in a comparable package? It's designed as a light weight man stopper, as is the platform it was designed for. They work quite well together. Not clear what the OP's gripe is?

Why are people so fixated on complaining about the 5.56 and the AR15/M4?

It's not MY personal 'go-to' weapon for CQB. But it is on my very short list or that size/weight self-defense rifle. It'll do nearly any task for which it was designed, and certainly anything a civilian can reasonably encounter. It's a reasonably reliable and good platform, and generally very effective for close infantry anti-personal and self-defense. And largely available and affordable.

It's not designed to kill bears, hunt moose, nor shoot 500 yards.

What exactly, again, is the complaint?
 
Hey ! Im trying to be accurate at 500 yards...LOL

But I just bought some 70 gr bullets and want to try even heavier to see what my rifle likes the best.
 
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People love it because most people arw shooters and not hunters. Nothing wrong with that, but caliber doesn't matter much for putting holes in paper.
 
And this whole thread just proves my point. Just look at how mad you all are getting.

I never said that the .223 is a bad round, it does a lot of things good....but so does a lot of other rounds.
You just don't see people getting all worked up about them.

And to tell me they are a great Man Stopper is one of the things that get me all worked up.
I don't hunt people, and does that mean that you could be shot with anything else and the bullets are just going to bounce off you?

The whole .223 vs everything else is just like Chevy vs Ford and that's what I don't get.
 
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