I just don't get it.

S

sty

New member
I just don't understand why so many people are fascinated with the .223 Rem.
Now don't get me wrong it's a great little cartage. But everything you read and hear you would think that it will do anything you will ever want to do with a rifle.
I understand why every new rifle that comes out is chambers in it, because people keep buying them.
 
The AR, along with the 223/5.56 round is the new All American rifle. It is a very versatile combo. AR's can be configured in dozens of different configurations to suit anyone's needs and budget. The more accurate AR's are every bit as accurate as a bolt rifle, albeit at a higher price tag. There are some very inexpensive bolt rifles for folks not wanting an AR.

The round is about as inexpensive as it gets for a centerfire and ammo is everywhere. Recoil is very light at around 5 ft lbs compared to 10-12 for 30-30 which is considered light. The round can be extremely accurate.

Pretty versatile too. It is about as good as it gets as a coyote round and no slouch on smaller varmints in accurate rifles. With the better bullets available in heavier weights it is a legitimate short range deer round.

Not to mention a very good personal protection round from carbine length AR's. That platform has basically killed off combat shotguns and pistol caliber carbines in LE and the military. It is taking longer for the civilian market to grasp this, but folks are starting to understand.

It won't do everything you need a round to do. But it does most of what most folks actually need a round to do.
 
The popularity of the .223/556 (and the .308) have a lot more to do with their military use than any real performance benefit.

Lots of guy who were in just think they're the cats meow, or have an affection for the guns they used, etc.

Others think anything the military uses is the best there is, end of story.

Others just like the cheap surplus ammo.
 
I agree with everything you both have said. Maybe I am just sick hearing about it , I mean every magazine and TV show you see that's all they talk about.
 
it's a compact, lightweight, and heavily produced cartridge. militaries around the world, including ours use it(or at least the metric equivalent). it is perfect for varmints and useful for medium game given some marksmanship skills. that is why it is popular. it is not going to blow the hatch off a T90 Tank but nobody expects it to.
 
The AR, along with the 223/5.56 round is the new All American rifle. It is a very versatile combo. AR's can be configured in dozens of different configurations to suit anyone's needs and budget.
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An AR in .223/5.56 leaves a lot of bases uncovered.

Elk, or pretty much any quarry larger than small deer, for starters .....
 
When the AR-15 and the .223 first came out, I spoke with a Colt salesman at the NRA convention in Washington. Fantastic (and I mean that word in its literal sense) claims were being made for the little cartridge. I allowed that I would like to get some FMJ bullets so I could load my .22-250 down to .223 specs and see what it would do.

The Colt guy almost went nuts! "Load what down?" he screamed. "The .223 is the most powerful cartridge in the world", he yelled, and began ranting about near misses killing people, instant death from a hit in the finger, mushroom clouds, whole counties wiped out by one bullet, and off into cuckoo land.

The military was not that interested, but two things forced an attitude change. The first was that no other weapon was in sight that was controllable in full auto fire (the M14 wasn't), and JFK fired an AR-15 and was so impressed that he brought pressure to bear on the army to reconsider its decision not to adopt it.

Of course, the most sensible thing to do would have been to adopt the AK47, but that would not have been politically possible! You can imagine the reaction in Congress if the Army had to pay royalties to Russia!!

Jim
 
It was once true that MilSurp 5.56 and 7.62 NATO ammo could be had on the cheap in just about any quantity. I don't think that's true anymore because too many have jumped on board with these two calibers. Even so, 5.56/.223 can still be bought for less than 50 cents per round delivered. Try that with most other comparable rifle cartridges.

I'm no expert and I don't hunt... but with the right loads the .223 Rem is good for anything from rabbits to whitetail deer although it isn't my first choice for either. I don't hunt coyote either (no need here) but it's perfect for that. It also makes a good home defense round.
 
I love my AR, and 5.56 ammo is back down to almost reasonable price levels. It is half the price of any other factory centerfire rifle ammo.

But for a varmint bolt gun, I would not choose 223. I would choose 22-250, 243, 204 ruger in that order.

For a light weight deer gun, I would choose 243, 257, 7-08, 260, 6.5x55 in that order.

For a benchrest rifle, I would choose 260, 308, 6.5 norma in that order.
 
Very accurate ? It can be but you better choose your ammo wisely. I have shot several brand of ammo and I was not impressed at all with the consistency. To get good group you wil need to spend more in ammo.

Btw, I have an ar (colt 6920) and I like it so I'm not anti ar.
 
I don't want everyone to take me the wrong way, I am not anti AR or .223 (I have one also). I realize that it is a lot of marketing from all of the manufacturers and part of are current culture. I just have some friends and a few people that I run into at the range that think that the .223 in anything is the do-all end-all to rifle calibers. I am a believer in using the right tool for the job.
 
I'm not anti-AR or .223/556 either, I just have no use for either of them, especially not together.:D


Now, an AR chambered in .204Ruger... that would freakin' rock. Or 17WSM. That would rock too.
 
It may be that a .223 rifle is the first one for many new shooters and that is all they know first hand. Any that also shoot a .308 or .30-06 for example probably have a better perspective on the .223.
 
The 223 is certainly not the perfect military round, but it has been an excellent target round in an AR action. I still drag out my AR15 Match rifle and shoot it. I shot it recently in a mid range match and I shot well. My best for the day was a 196 at 600 yards, which was not bad...:(

As a target round in the AR action I don't have to roll around in rapid fire and manipulate the bolt. At 300 yards it zips nicely along, at 600 yards the cartridge is running out of gas, but it is not horrible when compared to a 168 out of a 308 Win. At 1000 yards it is pathetic and makes for a trying day if you are pulling the target for a 223 shooter. No one is happy when the little rounds float in, make a tiny hole, can’t hear it hit the target, and the wind blew the thing far away from the center. But, at 600 yards, I shot a HM score, the rifle barely recoiled, and that is a good thing. I was able to retain my position and come back down to the center of the target after recoil. A larger cartridge (308 or 30-06) will knock me out of position and after enough rounds go down range, I develop a flinch.

As a combat round, I am of the opinion that if the military was looking for a good, well designed, intermediate round, they should have stolen the 7.62 X 39 cartridge and claimed it for their own. As much as I love the 308, it kicks too much for the little girls.
 
Slamfire said:
As a combat round, I am of the opinion that if the military was looking for a good, well designed, intermediate round, they should have stolen the 7.62 X 39 cartridge and claimed it for their own. As much as I love the 308, it kicks too much for the little girls.
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I'm no military historian, but -- to me -- the biggest advantage of the 5.56 cartridge is its weight. Ammo is freakin' heavy. The biggest problem with the 7.62x51 isn't so much that it "kicks too much for the little girls", but that the rifles are bigger and heavier and the ammo weighs double what 5.56 weighs.
 
When I was in the Marines (back when God was a Gunny), we had M14's. Then they switched us to the M16. Seems to me the M16 was a lot lighter back then than it is now, but maybe I'm just mentally comparing it to the weight of the M14. Anyway, as to the 223 cartridge, I was never impressed and never planned to own one. But...one day I was in Bass Pro and they had a Ruger Hawkeye Stainless in 223 at a very cheap sale price. Well, why not, says I, and over time I've come to like the cartridge. Cheap to shoot. No recoil at all. The 8 year old granddaughter can shoot it and blow up water bottles and shout with happiness. I can shoot pigs and coyotes and maintain the Armadillo free zone around the house. I guess it gets shot considerably more than any other rifle I have. These days I mostly load the 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip and it's zipping along somewhere around 3600+ fps and it'll absolutely destroy a coyote and it is fragile enough to blow up and not ricochet. It has its place, though when I go meat hunting I don't reach for the 223.
 
As a combat round, I am of the opinion that if the military was looking for a good, well designed, intermediate round, they should have stolen the 7.62 X 39 cartridge and claimed it for their own. As much as I love the 308, it kicks too much for the little girls.
Click to expand...

I'm no military historian, but -- to me -- the biggest advantage of the 5.56 cartridge is its weight. Ammo is freakin' heavy. The biggest problem with the 7.62x51 isn't so much that it "kicks too much for the little girls", but that the rifles are bigger and heavier and the ammo weighs double what 5.56 weighs.
Click to expand...

I do have a bias: I earned my Distinguished Rifleman Badge with a M1a. Another issue, I never had to hump a weapon in combat and never shot a round in combat. Probably had hundreds of thousands of rounds go over my head, but I was nicely ensconced behind dirt berms pulling targets.

A shooting bud of mine, who is a Vietnam Combat Veteran took me to task as I was whining about the replacement of the M14 with the M16. He had carried both into combat and said you could carry 200 rounds of 7.62 or 400 rounds or 5.56 as a combat load and the advantage was, of course, to 400 rounds. I asked him if he had ever fired 400 rounds in a day, and he had!. So, there are some advantages to the Matty Mattel gun, but I will deign ever saying it.

Bud’s who have come back from combat have given mixed messages about the performance of the 5.56. One bud said no insurgent walked away after he shot them. Another, a Battalion Scout Sniper, said insurgents hit with the 5.56 round over 100 yards away, “just would not stay down”. He was however, very happy with the effects of the 7.62. Much better for a bang, flop, effect.

If you notice cartridge developments in the AR15, to improve lethality, have been pushing rounds back up to a 30-30 power level, which is the power level of the 7.62 X 39.

Given that I really love the 308, all of these subcaliber rounds are for ......:eek:
 
I own two and have built many.

I understand what you are saying.

I have no real use for them other than they are fun and cheap rifle shooting compared to other calibers.

One is set up for long range and the other short range.

I enjoy building them because they are the gun nuts tinker toys.

They have become America’s number one sporting rifle and I can see why.
They are light, tons of options available, easy to care for and or repair.
Ammo is cheap and plentiful.

Some are drawn in my the military factor but I think most people buy them because they are a well thought out design, easy to shoot and like I said lots of options / configurations.

There are several caliber options available for the platform.
Hunting small to medium game in N America is popular with the platform.
Not sure I would hunt Elk with 5.56 but 308 or 300 Blackout would be an option depending on the range you are hunting at.

I mainly just like shooting the platform and caliber.
for plinking and range use they can't be beat IMHO.
 
Great for coyotes, jackrabbits and prairie dogs. ARs & Minis are great truck guns.

I dunno. I've used the .22-250, the Swift and my .243 on the same critters. Somehow, the .223 is, what, more "informal" maybe? :D
 
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