I Guess I was Naive in Thinking that all Police Officers were Excellent Shots.

Tell me, then, that you really want to fly on a commercial airliner where the flight crew have both marginally passed the emergency drills late last year, haven't exercised those skills and have, instead, improved their navigation and their ILS (instrument landing system) skills.
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What do you call an airline pilot who just barely passed his last check-ride?




Captain.
 
What do you call an airline pilot who just barely passed his last check-ride?

Captain.
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I haven't weighed into this thread, because although I know quite a few LEOs and have shot with many of them, that does not a representative sample make.

However M1911 makes an excellent point, either the person passed whatever the minimum marksmanship requirements for their particular department were, or they did not.

So what do you call a person who barely passes all the tests required to be a LEO? Officer fill in the blank.

As others have pointed out there is a heck of a lot more to being a good LEO than excellent handgun marksmanship, but it doesn't hurt.
 
Bottom line in my view is that I may one day have to use my firearm to save the life of a citizen, fellow LEO, or myself. I practice when I can and as much as I can because I owe it to the public, my co-workers, and myself to be proficent in all aspects of my job and the use of my duty pistol, patrol shotgun, and patrol rifle is no exception even though there might be a lack of constant practice or qualifying on the part of the department. Myself and any other LEO is accountable for every bullet that is fired from our firearms and in my eyes "spray and pray" is not an option and absolutely unacceptable (not to say that LEO's deliberately deploy "spray and pray" but seeing some of the shooting incidents in recent years it makes one wonder). My department supplies as much ammo as I want and I have access to a range so if my shooting is not up to an acceptable level, I would have no one to blame but myself. I can not stand to think that someone may get hurt or lose their lives because of my inability to correctly and proficiently use my firearm.
 
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Well, if we accept that firing his weapon is so seldom necessary that an officer doesn't really need to know how, then the next logical step is to say that officers don't need guns.
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I would disagree that somehow becomes the next logical step, or that it is even a logical step at all. We do expect the policeman to respond to calls for service, the presence of the firearm and the ability to use it does serve as a detterent in many cases, and I don't think anyone is saying the officer doesn't know how to fire his weapon, but instead that he is not very good at it.
 
I can not stand to think that someone may get hurt or lose their lives because of my inability to correctly and proficiently use my firearm.
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Just out of curiousity, how many hours a year to you spend practicing and improving high speed/pursuit driving skills?
 
We do expect the policeman to respond to calls for service, the presence of the firearm and the ability to use it does serve as a detterent in many cases...
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I think that the general public is of the same mindset as the OP, expecting the officer to be an expert marksmen. I suspect there have been more than a few otherwise belligerent people peacefully arrested largely because they were not willing to challenge that assumption.
 
Just out of curiousity, how many hours a year to you spend practicing and improving high speed/pursuit driving skills?:
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Well if you count as practice and improvement every time I drive a cruiser and actually do drive to calls at a high rate of speed then its almost every day I work. If your speaking of time spent on senario high speed driving outside of actually being on patrol then its zero . High speed driving/pursuit skills is probably the one thing harder than firearms to train for and do it realistically. I do not have to tell you that ranges and shoothouses are a scarce resource to many departments but tracks or courses where driving skills can be improved are even harder to come by. Fortunately, the local police academy has space where a driving skills classes can be held and I'm hoping to get my name on the list when the next one comes around.
At any rate, my department has a NO PURSUITS policy. :barf:
 
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I can not stand to think that someone may get hurt or lose their lives because of my inability to correctly and proficiently use my firearm.
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Thank you for your commitment to keeping people safe out there, and thank you for your commitment to not slipping into mediocrity with regards to your firearms skills, I frankly would expect nothing less from professionals such as yourself :)
 
LEO's bad aim

A few years ago in my town (Martinez, Ca.) a police officer pulled a car over in the early morning. The driver of the car got out with shotgun in hand and the shootout was on. The officer was carrying a Beretta 9mm with a large capacity magazine (whats that, 17 rounds?) anyway the BG and the LEO chased each other around the BG's car till both of their guns were empty. The BG jumped back in his car and drove away. The LEO must have been pretty rung out because he didn't persue. I don't recall hearing about the BG ever being caught.
Now, I've never had someone shooting at me but I'd like to think that somewhere in there I might find a half second to actually use my sights and put an end to this none-sense! I'm also really glad that I didn't live near where the shootout happened. There was a lot of stray bullets flying around.:eek:
 
I'd like to think that somewhere in there I might find a half second to actually use my sights and put an end to this none-sense!
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I'm sure we'd all like to think that. But I would imagine that facing someone shooting a 12 gauge shotgun at you would render fairly high on the distraction scale. Police training or not, 17 rounds in the magazine or not, the equation changes significantly when buckshot is headed your way, and all bets are off.

I would argue that unless you've actually been in an up close and personal gunfight, particularly one where it's just you and the bad guy and no one else is around to assist you, there simply is no way of knowing what you will do when the bullets start flying, regardless of how certain you might be of how you will respond - you simply do not know.
 
Well if you count as practice and improvement every time I drive a cruiser and actually do drive to calls at a high rate of speed then its almost every day I work.
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No, I wouldn't call that practicing.
If your speaking of time spent on senario high speed driving outside of actually being on patrol then its zero .
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Not uncommon, and thanks for answering. I think it helps make my point. We have a lot of things to train for, we have a lot of things that can result in someone getting hurt or losing their life. Firearms are not unique in that. Limited training resources, limited training opportunities.
 
I think that the general public is of the same mindset as the OP, expecting the officer to be an expert marksmen
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You need to read the OP again. He expected the officer to not be a terrible marksman. He said that the police officer appeared to be a danger to the public. That is quite different then expecting expertness.
 
i skipped ahead so i missed some of the post, so if i say something that was already said i apologize in advance.

how many, of the many, people responding have actually been in a gun fight???
 
We have a LEO about to join our group of range addicts. He should fit right in, most of us are former military & he's a former Marine sniper...
 
Focus

I have fortunately never been in a gunfight. I have learned enough in the various activities in my life to know that you have to focus on the task at hand in order to be successful. If you get rattled and neglect proper technique then you are relying on blind luck rather than skill. I know for a fact that it takes longer to miss 3 times than it does to aim.
I tried to google it but was unsuccessful but I remember it was a famous New York detective that has survived and won over 20 gunfights. He said that the other guy almost always fired first. The secret to his success was that he kept his cool and took aim.
As far as how serious police take the various aspects of their jobs; I have an old friend who is a police officer. He is allowed 30 minutes a day to work out at the police gym if he chooses to use it, he does not. He is allowed to go to the range on "company time" and is supplied free ammunition to do so. He does not. Once a year they have 1 week of mandatory training, Pistol, shotgun and some fun assault weapons as well as baton and hand to hand.
To his credit, I knew him because he was my student when I was teaching karate.
I'm amazed that more LEO's don't take physical fitness and training more seriously. I know that some do but my guess is that 75% do as little as possible.
 
I have fortunately never been in a gunfight. I have learned enough in the various activities in my life to know that you have to focus on the task at hand in order to be successful. If you get rattled and neglect proper technique then you are relying on blind luck rather than skill. I know for a fact that it takes longer to miss 3 times than it does to aim.
I tried to google it but was unsuccessful but I remember it was a famous New York detective that has survived and won over 20 gunfights. He said that the other guy almost always fired first. The secret to his success was that he kept his cool and took aim.
As far as how serious police take the various aspects of their jobs; I have an old friend who is a police officer. He is allowed 30 minutes a day to work out at the police gym if he chooses to use it, he does not. He is allowed to go to the range on "company time" and is supplied free ammunition to do so. He does not. Once a year they have 1 week of mandatory training, Pistol, shotgun and some fun assault weapons as well as baton and hand to hand.
To his credit, I knew him because he was my student when I was teaching karate.
I'm amazed that more LEO's don't take physical fitness and training more seriously. I know that some do but my guess is that 75% do as little as possible.
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I totally agree! I especially like your comment about it taking longer to miss 3 than to aim (and hit once). And it is amazing that some, and perhaps many, cops get so complacent about practicing their martial skills when some, if not many, of them apparently do have the facilities to do so.

And I think the famous detective you are thinking of is Jim Cirillo.
 
I Guess I was Naive in Thinking that all Police Officers were Excellent Shots.

In my town, which is a typical safe suburban bedroom community, I have it on good authority that they fudge qualifications to get some of the guys through.
 
Shooting paper is OK,but I think some force on force training can help a great deal. We are products of our training and some take it more seriously than others,Police and civilians.
 
Wow, you actually thought that???

My last CHL renewal instructor was an ex-Austin cop and he mentioned that fact that the percentage of true "gun people" among cops is no higher than the general population...about 4%.

And every CHL instructor I've ever had has harped on the fact that MOST cops are notoriously poor shots--present company excluded, since I assume that any cops reading this are good-to-excellent shots or they wouldn't be here on this board. :D

If it hasn't been brought up already in this thread (sorry, no time to read all 6 pages), you might want to watch Ron White's Blue Collar Comedy bit about cops being poor shots. It went something like, ...cop reported to his superior that 'I emptied my magazine shooting at the perp at point-blank range.' Superior asks, 'Then what happened?' Cop replies, 'They left.' Goes on to say not only did cop miss hitting perp, he missed an entire SUBURBAN.
 
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