I Give Up!

Warbird, it looks like you may have bitten off more than you can chew, Taylorce1 is right about pillar bedding "that" action, it's hell, and still no guarantee. Maybe try a different stock, or send it to Scorch, he's probably too busy, but locate a good smith and see what he says.
Hell I have to have smiths help now and again too, so save your sanity man, and give the smith a nod.;)
 
That's why I'm not doing the work myself and having a certified gunsmith (Gander Mountain) do it. I've got almost a year to dink with this so I have no doubt that I will get it shooting. :rolleyes:
 
I have a 77 / 25-06 bedded some time back thatjust wouldn't group worth a darn. I was living in Fargo ND at the time working for Scheels Friendly. Any way our gun smith glassed it for me and it straightened it right out. I am sure it will be fine when you get it back.
 
Warbirdlover how bad is it shooting? I have had a couple of rugers (M77 MK11's) over the years and they didn't shoot that good, about the best I could get them shooting with alot of playing around with them was around 1.5MOA.
 
When I bought this 20 years ago it would shoot cloverleaf sub-MOA groups with the cheapest factory ammo I fed it. This year before changing stocks it still would shoot those groups. It is in the bedding of the Boyds stock I put it in. The gun is a real shooter and always has been. The groups now are not bad, probably 3 shots inside an inch and one out 1/2" to 1" from the others. Never in the same place either. And while I can't shoot as good as I used to I know when I make a bad shot just from the feel of it and were the sight was. And I haven't been doing that. So I'll get it. :)
 
Hmm. the political scene is staring to heat up. Maybe the frame, barrel and action don't agree politically with the new stock? :D

Hope it turns out well. When it is done, maybe a three shot group will produce one 0.5" hole.
 
I've read all of the posts and unless I missed it I don't think anyone mentioned the possibility of copper fouling in the barrel. Have you considered it? If you've shot 1 1/2 boxes 3 times that equals 4 1/2 boxes. Or was the 1 1/2 boxes spread out over the three trips to the range? I was having the same problem with my .280 last year. Boyd stock, Mauser action (copy), 26" Douglas barrel. At 100 yards it was shooting softball sized groups which is good enough for a deer rifle (for some) but I could never get it to hit dead center of the target. It was also vertical stringing to the left and right. Everything you checked I checked and was about to replace the barrel before a long time shooter suggested checking for copper fouling. Bingo! Ran a patch with Barnes CR 10 (I think) through the barrel and it came out blue green. After a good cleaning I took it to the range and shot a ten shot group, dead center, at 100 yards that measured 1.342". Problem solved :-) Beautiful rifle by the way!
 
Likely it is the bedding. With a Ruger stock barrel, I think the key is firs bedding the action. Pillar bedding would be better. Start with a free floated barrel. Then add shims under the barrel at the tip of the stock until you get the best groups.

Finally wrap the barrel in the shim thickness plus a layer or 2(compression) of elec tape. Make a 1" long pad of epoxy at the tip of the stock to the same height as your shim. That should be the best it will shoot.


BTW, there is such thing as overtorque! It is worse than low torque as it usually deforms something. You might get those rings off, make sure it is all straight and then properly torque the rings.
 
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Rugers definitely shoot better groups with a pressure pad, but I've never had any luck trying cards or tape under barrels, even temporarily. The best way seems to be just installing a pressure pad with 5-7 lbs of upward pressure.

Less than 3 lbs. of pressure may cause the barrel to bounce off the pad and string shots vertically. Also, considerably more clearance than a "dollar bill" should be left between barrel and channel, except at the pressure pad.
 
I've read all of the posts and unless I missed it I don't think anyone mentioned the possibility of copper fouling in the barrel. Have you considered it? If you've shot 1 1/2 boxes 3 times that equals 4 1/2 boxes. Or was the 1 1/2 boxes spread out over the three trips to the range? I was having the same problem with my .280 last year. Boyd stock, Mauser action (copy), 26" Douglas barrel. At 100 yards it was shooting softball sized groups which is good enough for a deer rifle (for some) but I could never get it to hit dead center of the target. It was also vertical stringing to the left and right. Everything you checked I checked and was about to replace the barrel before a long time shooter suggested checking for copper fouling. Bingo! Ran a patch with Barnes CR 10 (I think) through the barrel and it came out blue green. After a good cleaning I took it to the range and shot a ten shot group, dead center, at 100 yards that measured 1.342". Problem solved :-) Beautiful rifle by the way!
Click to expand...

Thought about this and ran some copper solvent through with nothing showing before I shot the rilfe the last time.

Thought about me holding the stock differently (but I don't shoot my Remington bad) and I'm really not. I use the same Outers Varminter rest that I've used for over 20 years.

Thought about me shooting bad and I'm not shooting "that" bad to cause the groups I'm getting.

If the free floating doesn't work it's back to pressure pads and thanks for the suggestion on how much. This is a beefy barrel contour (.300 WM) so I suspect barrel whip to be miminal or normal.

I thought about the tightening of the action screws and used minimal force the last time with no improvement. (About 60 inch lbs.).

Here is a question for you all....

I've been torqueing the recoil lug screw first and the back screw second and the middle screw just snugged up as someone in here said that is the proper way for a Ruger 77. Is it? Should I be going back and forth between front and back screws a little at a time? I'm going to ask the gunsmith that question when I get the rifle back. How should I torque these screws if I want to take it apart and how much torque? See what he says.

Btw, thanks for all the ideas.
 
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QUOTE:
Rugers definitely shoot better groups with a pressure pad, but I've never had any luck trying cards or tape under barrels, even temporarily. The best way seems to be just installing a pressure pad with 5-7 lbs of upward pressure.

Less than 3 lbs. of pressure may cause the barrel to bounce off the pad and string shots vertically. Also, considerably more clearance than a "dollar bill" should be left between barrel and channel, except at the pressure pad**********************************************************
Picher, how would one go about measuring how much pressure is being applied to the barrel/pressure pad?
The reason I ask is I followed warbird and also swapped my paddle stock out for a Boyd's. Warbird's rifle looked so good to me with that Boyd's and I just had to have it!! He really is a bad influence on me and I will need to watch him from now on, LOL :D
I took it out and tried it a few weeks ago and it shot way worse(nowhere near the small sub moa groups that it was doing before the swap) . I disassembled it and make me a craddle so to speak out about one inch from the end of the stock made from JB Weld. I wrapped the barrel in clear saran wrap at the contact point and re-assembled it and let it dry overnight. Before the JB , there was appx .050 gap at the end of the forearm, now I cant slip a dollar in at the point of contact without lifting up in the barrel slightly. I just havent had a chance to go back out to the range to try it again yet...maybe tomorrow????
Thanks,
John
 
Found out about an hour ago,...IM GOING TOMORROW!!! YA-HOOOO!!!

As a side note, a guy that I fly rc planes with called me out of the blue about 2 hours ago and invited me to meet him up at the flying field EARLY in the morning before sun-up and see if we can call up some of the coyotes up there. He and I had talked several times this summer about going but nothing came about. I am pumped!!!!! :D
Then , the guy that I go to the range with called me and asked if I wanted to meet him around noon and see how the rifle fix does on my ruger as well as how the reloads are going to work. Sounds like I got me a full day of fun tomorrow!!! YIPEEEEEE!!!

I'll report back tomorrow evening........did I mention I am PUMPED???!;)
 
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