"I bet I could say you resisted arrest or something..."

The baiting doesn't excuse the cop's actions. But this kid's a baiter, no doubt.

Just driving along, minding his own business (yeah right), when he chooses a commuter parking lot that has a patrol car there. You can see him drive past the cop in the opening seconds.

I sometimes pull into empty parking lots in the dead of night; making a cell phone call or scratching my foot. Would I ever choose one that has a cop car in it?

Rational cop's mind: "this is my stakeout point, where I point my radar gun at the highway. Some kid pulls in behind me and parks his car. There's nobody else around."........"I should probably ask him what he's doing here."

Rational cop's actions: (taps on car window) "Excuse me sir, is there something I can help you with?"

If anything, shame on the cop for being stupid. Anyone can spot egregiously obvious bait from a mile away; if you're gonna be a dirty cop, at least be smart about it and don't get caught.

I don't trust stupid people, especially those carrying loaded weapons.
 
I sometimes pull into empty parking lots in the dead of night; making a cell phone call or scratching my foot. Would I ever choose one that has a cop car in it?

Call me nuts but if I was looking for a place to stop my car at 2AM and saw a mostly empty parking lot with a police car there I would think it a safe place BECAUSE of the squad car. I would not be surprised to be asked at that hour why I was there but I also would rather be there than the middle of nowhere without a cop (NOTE: as long as the cop is not the one on this tape!).
 
Call me nuts but

Well see there's a specific problem here. You can sorta tell from the first minute or so that these people are in the middle of nowhere. The middle of nowhere is generally a safe place. It's not like there's a despot hiding in a hole in the ground 3 feet from your parking spot, waiting to oppress you.

Now, if i needed assistance, sure I'd park next to the cop. But if i'm minding my own business... why would I want to park next to a cop?
 
On another board I was told this Sgt was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation. I hope IA cans him. I can also see a whole training regimen being instituted for the entire Dept as a result of the investigation and/or lawsuit.

Wonder how hard it would be to put micro cameras in the door posts covering all four sides, in vehicle recording, plus off site transmitting/recording capability in my home town.
 
Well see there's a specific problem here. You can sorta tell from the first minute or so that these people are in the middle of nowhere. The middle of nowhere is generally a safe place.

I used to think that. Then a buddy and I were driving straight from NY to FL, back to school. We were in NC and both exhausted (I had a stomach bug/bad fish and been leaving a chum trail for the last 12 hours so he got stuck with most of the driving.). We stopped just off 95 in an empty parking area and simply crashed for two hours in the car. Then we continued on our way.

The next day we learned that Michael Jordan's dad was killed while taking a rest stop/nap in his car at the exact same time in the middle of nowhere in NC right off I-95 not far from where we were...

Nowhere did not seem so empty anymore.
 
The middle of nowhere is definitely not a safe place.

Rest stops and commuter lots are notoriously bad places to be late at night.
 
The middle of nowhere is definitely not a safe place.

Fair enough.

Rest stops and commuter lots are notoriously bad places to be late at night.

If you say so, then what was the cop thinking? "This guy just pulled up right behind me, in the middle of nowhere. Maybe he's up to no good." Just playing devil's advocate here....

The bigger point here is, however, regardless of this person's past history in St. Louis or whatever, he was obviously out baiting. If considering his past history, then he's a full blown baiter. How the cop conducted himself is truly heinous, but if you're the kinda person who purposely goes looking for trouble...
 
applesanity said:
but if you're the kinda person who purposely goes looking for trouble...

Ya' know, I was going to add this, I'm glad you did.

While I'm a suburbanite now, and enjoy a great relationship with LEOs, that wasn't always so. For most of my twenties I was a long-haired student, and I never had any trouble.

Let's face it, if The State Patrol catches you dead-bang doing 90 MPH on a Harley with straight pipes, sign the freakin' ticket!

If the local beat cop comes to your door doing an investigation, don't slam the door in his face and tell him to get a warrant. This is the guy who is more than likely coming to your aid.

During the peak years of my club membership I owned a fully customized Super Glide, a go-fast Sportster and a red six-cylinder CBX Honda. If the entire Dane County law enforcement cadre' wanted to find me, they could probably do it from memory.

I think the guys who complain the most have the poorest relationship with the law.
 
The kid's dad should have a talk with him and cut back on his funding some. That camera was there either to bait or for racing, note it has a view of the instruments. That is common with street racers, or so I am told.

Of course it really does not matter if it was a bait, the cop took the bait and behaved in a disgusting manner. What is more I have NO REASON not to believe this cop refrains from such behaviour in other situations. If he can't control himself with a 20 year old kid who, while not very bright, did not give him any real lip, then how does he handle a really stressfull situation?
 
So, knowing, and exercising, your rights now constitutes baiting a cop? And that excuses EVERYTHING that followed?

That's a peculiar stance, particularly on this of all forum boards.

One of my best friends is a federal officer.

He's told me some stories of his time in uniform that would set your teeth on edge.
 
What was the officer thinking?

I bet he was thinking the young man looked suspicious, I know I would have been.

Yes, this young man was baiting the officer in a way.
The answers he gave the officer were not the way a reasonable adult should have replied.

Was the officers response the way a proffessional should comport himself, absolutely not.

Both videos show LE responding in a very unprofessional if not criminal manner, regardless of the kids snotty attitude.
 
Having been strip searched by Federales in Mexico (and been mildly beaten) and having to bribe my way out of jail in another incident (My slightly wild youth) i appreciate the rights we have in this country and do not take them for granted. Cops have a tough job and most try to do it well. Some (alot) do have an Us against Them mentality but I probably would also in that job. I have found that if I am polite and non confrontational I do not have many issues. If I challenge them on an issue I try to do it in a nuetral, non angry manner. I have been let off more often than not.
 
Having been strip searched by Federales in Mexico (and been mildly beaten) and having to bribe my way out of jail in another incident (My slightly wild youth)

I always practice the "Tijuana wallet" in Mexico. That is your US passport with a $50 bill inside.

WildsolvesmanyproblemsAlaska TM
 
Giving over $50 to some corrupt little foreign "police officer"?

Hum...

I think I'll practice an even more positive means of getting out of trouble South of the Border.

Staying NORTH of the border.

I honestly can't think of a single thing that could ever compel me to visit Mexico. Not even the ruins.
 
Some followup info...

1. Brett Darrow is the same person who posted a video of himself going through a police checkpoint a few months back. In that video, cops ordered him out of the car, then tried to move the car to the shoulder (cop couldn't drive a stick and stalled the car). Brett made some reference to the cop possibly destroying his clutch. One thing I remember from that video is the cop doing a quick search (sans warrant) of the passenger compartment.

2. A google search turned up the following article. Perhaps Mr. Darrow's fear of official retaliation is not without cause?

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1967.asp

Missouri: Cop Website Contained Apparent Death Threat Against Video Vigilante

Unofficial website popular with Saint Louis, Missouri police contained a death threat against Brett Darrow three months before his recent encounter.

When stopped by an out-of-control St. George, Missouri police officer last Friday, motorist Brett Darrow feared for his life (view story and video). It turns out, he had legitimate reason for concern. Three months ago, participants in an online forum frequented by Saint Louis law enforcement personnel threatened to harass -- and even physically harm -- Darrow.

The messages appeared on St. Louis CopTalk, a site that describes itself as a site "for the use of law enforcement officers employed by the St. Louis Police Department and their supporters in the St. Louis Metropolitan area." While it has no official ties to the city, it does allow officers to log into official police email accounts from the front page. In June of this year, Darrow had sparked outrage among the forum's members after he videotaped a disputed traffic stop involving what Darrow argued was a perfectly legal turn and what a Saint Louis police officer said was not.

In the course of researching the incident, TheNewspaper learned from an inside source about a CopTalk posting dated June 29, 2007. A user calling himself "STL_FINEST" wrote the following item, presented unedited and in full:

in reply to "Who is this terd?"
I hope this little POS punk bastard tries his little video stunt with me when I pull him over alone- and I WILL pull him over - because I will see "his gun" and place a hunk of hot lead right where it belongs.

We verified the existence of the post which, until some time around July, was publicly available here. It has been deleted. Because the CopTalk forum allows anonymous posting, only the site's administrator has the ability to confirm the identity of a poster or his status as a law enforcement official. When contacted by TheNewspaper this week, the forum owner had no comment beyond, "Sorry, the posting log I have access to only contains the most recent 300 messages, and that particular message cycled off some time ago."

Still, participants did not disavow the posting. Instead, another added, "I'm going to his house to check for parking violations." We informed Darrow of the existence of the messages, but withheld publication not wishing to interfere with an expected investigation into officers' behavior at the well-publicized traffic stops. To our knowledge, no such investigation was ever made.

CopTalk now bans discussion of Darrow's videos. A message dated September 10 reads: "We are already very much aware of Mr. Darrow and his antics. There is no need to post any of his award-winning videography here." Still, discussions of last Friday's St. George traffic stop made their way onto the site for a few hours before being removed by the administrator. One poster expressed contempt for Darrow:

"Other than CYA and a heads up why do we give this [expletive] any thought? He lives for this type of [expletive]."

Another CopTalk user referred to a discussion on the online forum AR-15.com by saying:

"I have a discussion going on another board where someone is basicly [sic] calling me a liar. The retards have even invited Brett to join to tell his side of what he does."

The firearms enthusiast forum began discussing Darrow's video on September 10. At least one other message from a self-identified Saint Louis area police officer appears to condone official harassment of the twenty-year-old motorist.

"Take the kid to jail... today... tommorrow... the next day... everytime you see him out and he commits a traffic violation... tow his car and take him to jail... period. No arguing, no yelling.....nothing but the sound of cash leaving his wallet from impound fees and fines." (view thread, view saved image of full post)

Unlike the CopTalk forum, however, neither this user nor any others in a sampling we made of the nearly 2000 messages posted on the AR-15.com message thread supported the actions of St. George Police Sergeant James Kuehnlein. A number immediately condemned the self-identified officer's remarks.

The evidence shows that law enforcement problems extend far beyond the tiny geographic boundaries of 1300 resident city and that Darrow's video may have wide-reaching effects. The young driver's encounters with Saint Louis area police began in March 2005 when an intoxicated, off-duty police officer threatened to kill him. Darrow escaped only to find himself arrested hours later. The city agreed to drop all charges against him on the condition that he waive his right to sue over the incident. The following year, a Saint Louis officer at a DUI roadblock said he would, "find a reason to lock you up tonight" (view video and story). This is in addition to Sergeant Kuehnlein's videotaped threat that, "we will ruin your career and life and everything else you have coming before you."

The videotape from Kuehnlein's police cruiser is currently missing and the sergeant is currently on unpaid leave. St. George Police Chief Scott Uhrig is also being investigated by city officials who say he may have failed to inform them that the State of Missouri Administrative Hearing Commission concluded that, "Uhrig's unwelcome sexual advances to a teenager, while on duty and under the guise of enforcing the laws, indicate an especially egregious mental state, show that he cannot enforce the law, and are cause for discipline."
 
I don't see where Darrow did anything wrong. The notion that a citizen can't document interactions with the police without being condemned for quality control work seems a bit silly.
 
Perhaps Mr. Darrow's fear of official retaliation is not without cause?

Perhaps Mr Darrow is responsible for the posts. Hows that for conspiracies. :)

I usually call BS on this crap until such time as the "victim" walks into a Courthouse with a 1983 complaint in his hand, then I wait to see the proof. Always easy to accuse, less easy to prove. It's as easy as googling.

WildandonwardAlaska
 
Just has Many Videos

If not more going the other way, where you see a guy doing something really brass or baiting or getting out of control and the officer looks at him like he is stupid and finish's his job and walks away.

This Officer did not act properly and he lost what is supposed to make him a LEO and unfortunatlly drug down other LEO's with him that do there jobs every day to keep us safe...
 
That's what baffles me about the response on CopTalk, where they blame the victim of a badge-toting liar thug, instead of condemning the thug that is sullying their profession.
 
That's what baffles me about the response on CopTalk, where they blame the victim of a badge-toting liar thug, instead of condemning the thug that is sullying their profession.

Cops put up with an unbelievable amount of mouthy crap from us civilians.

But not all "complaints" from the citizens are valid or even truthful. One officer I know had a complaint filed lodged for "insulting and indecent" comments. At least that one turned out to be the woman's objection to being called "ma'am" instead of "miss" (despite being a 52 y/o porch pig).

Compliants accuse officers of harassment, racial slurs, being too rough, assaults, foul language, etc. This is not to mention do-gooder citizens that try to report patrol units for speeding, not signalling a turn or parking in a red zone. Often these complaints are exaggerated and sometimes just fictious.

When someone loads up a car with recording equipment and then deliberately sets out to "bait" cops, the police are bound to have unfriendly thoughts about the person's motivation. When the person publishes the results of his "baiting" tactics (instead of perhaps taking them to the chief or even the AG's office) the cops won't be pleased to see him again.

I have a friend that lives in a smaller town south of St. Louis and his impression of the local PD officers is not very high. They try to do their job but in many cases are just not very professional or don't seem to be too bright.

In this case, it was a very poor performance by the officer and certainly worth some disciplinary action. Of course my first rule, when an officer comes unglued like this is - Shut Up! If you say anything after that, it is limited to "I'm going to exercise my right to keep my yap shut, thank you."
 
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