How similar is a 357 HP to a 45 ACP?

It's hard to compare.
You see the .357 magnum most of the time goes in a small hole, and goes out on a much bigger one. It can kill those above mentioned car engines.....:) (I might be partial to it, because I keep it on my belt at black bear hunting time.)
On the other hand, the .45 picks you up, slams you to the wall, turns you around, and kicks you in the rear end. Than with the same move, turns you around again, and gives you 2 Mike Tyson punch outs.
To put it a little simpler, .45, because shooting twice is silly.
I rest my case.
 
I think a good hollow point .357 would be a far superior self defense round to a .45 FMJ. A good .45 ACP hollow point would also be a far superior self defense to the .45 FMJ.
 
"Knock-down power" was the issue during the historic "Chinese Rebellion." The US introduced the Remington .45 ACP to "knock down" the doped up small framed Chinese attackers. The .38 cal standard could not do the trick. So, "knock-down" became the colloquial term for the effect of the energy of the round. At the time, the longer casing and powder of the .357 was not yet in service. Correct me if this is not factual.
 
Unless we are talking about a coonan I think we would be talking about two different guns, perhaps the type of firearm for either round has more of an impact in overal usefulness for the person vs difference in energy between the two rounds. Would a .357lcr be more practical than an HK45c or vice versa.
 
You can't make up for bullet weight and caliber, all .357 magnum can hope to do is be about as effective as .45 ACP ball but with twice the noise and recoil.

When we talk about the modern JHP offerings in both calibers, .45 ACP stomps the .357 into the dirt. The .45 starts out as big as the .357 fully expanded! It isn't even a contest, but as for .45 harball to .357 hollowpoints, I'd say they are pretty equal in stopping power but the .357 is far less pleasant to shoot and has slow follow up shots.

PS: I am a fan of .357 magnum (see my signature :)) but it is inferior to .45 ACP for a combat round.
 
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What Chinese rebellion?
What Remington .45 ACP was the answer to it?
That's a totally new one.
Denis
 
This thread is hilarious.

The GREAT CHINESE REBELLION!

Ones big and slow others small and fast. pick your poison, use as needed.
 
Comparing apples and oranges when you compare totally different bullets from totally different rounds. Bullet shape has more to do with wound channel than bullet diameter. Flesh is elastic. A roudnose bullet makes a smaller hole than a flat bullet. A jaggedy edged mushroom does a lot more damage than round nose of the same diameter.

So let's compare 180gr bullets in BOTH rounds. The 45acp will send it about 1000 fps. A .357 magnum can send it about 1400 fps. Whether its a round nose wearing a copper jacket, or whether its got a mushroomed front end, as long as the bullet stays in one 180 gr piece, the one going 400 fps faster penetrates further. If we are talking about stopping a human, both will likely pass through, so most of the energy is wasted, so it all comes down to bullet design. The larger 45 does more damage when compared to the same bullet type in the smaller diameter if both pass through. If the .45 is a round nose, and the 357 is a flat nose or raggedy mushroom, the ,357 may very well do more damage. If both the .357 bullet and 45 acp bullets are prefrag ammo or come apart on impact, and expel all energy on the target, and extra 400fps means a lot more energy.

So the moral is, worry more about what bullet you are going to use more than which of these two calibers if you are defending against humans.
 
In their traditional platforms, the .45acp is more fun to shoot. Some people disagree with that statement. While they are wrong there are also a great many of them.

Once a bullet gets past X-grs in weight and Y-fps, they are more similar than different. Folks can argue about the lower bound for X and Y, but most people agree that .357mag and .45acp are well above minimum.
 
I am not going to try and pretend to be an expert. Nor am I going to say A=B and that is it.

Yet, several medical, police and military accounts show that the average handgun is nothing more than a defensive weapon. The .22 LR has been known to stop attackers, while in other cases one has to dump multiple rounds of .45 ACP into a target.

Honestly at a arms length a sharp Ka-bar or a good pocket knife will do more damage than most handguns. Until you get up to a .44 mag or larger, then expect to use double taps and follow up shots in a self defense situation.


Not trying to sound like Rambo here, but .22 through .45 caliber beats a pointed stick, but those calibers and rounds are not always one shot stoppers.
 
These are both effective cartridges that will do significant damage to living tissue. Both are plenty adequate against vital structures. Sure, one lends itself to higher capacity and the other offers better penetration. In your life, do you expect that either of those factors will be more important than the other?

Otherwise, which one do you like better? Which one do you like shooting? Do you like carrying a revolver or a semi? If damage dynamics really matter, check out ballistic mediums. You can find some cool videos of gel tests on YouTube. Hell, if you are really determined, you could always drop some cheddar at the local meat market.
 
Boncrayon said:
Knock-down power" was the issue during the historic "Chinese Rebellion." The US introduced the Remington .45 ACP to "knock down" the doped up small framed Chinese attackers. The .38 cal standard could not do the trick. So, "knock-down" became the colloquial term for the effect of the energy of the round. At the time, the longer casing and powder of the .357 was not yet in service. Correct me if this is not factual.
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I apologize if I sound rude but you should edit your post to not cause confusion.
You're talking about the Moro Rebellion of the Philippine-American war when US army discovered that determined attackers doing rituals and using narcotics are harder to stop.
Colt46 said:
The 125 grain hollowpoint police loading in .357 has lots of evidence to show it was the most reliable one shot stop defensive cartridge. The industry has changed so much since then I'm not sure that still stands.
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Where is all this evidence? Can you give me a link? Thanks in advance.

Threads like this are fun, but in my opinion the best answer is:
Snyper said:
"Stopping power" is a meaningless term invented by people trying to compare things when no real comparison is possible due to all the variables involved
Click to expand...
45_auto said:
You can find a difference in energy, momentum, etc, numbers in them if that makes you happy.
Click to expand...
DPris said:
Either can "replace" the other.
Click to expand...
T. O'Heir said:
If you can shoot both equally well.
Click to expand...
 
I think to answer your question about a .357 hollow point replacing a .45 ACP, if we're looking strictly at the numbers, then yes certainly .357 does more than replace it; it greatly exceeds it. You cannot discount the fact that the .357 is pushed much faster and hits with more kinetic energy. 200gr +P loads in .45 start to even the playing field a little bit, but there is a caveat to the magnum's increased performance. The round is much bigger and will have less capacity in the same amount of space in any firearm (unless you have a .45 wheelgun, then bully for you!). Also, maybe I am one of the few who thinks so, but .357 is generally quite unpleasant to shoot and I much prefer a .45 ACP. I own both and love both, but if it comes to any sort of defense, I'll stick with the pistol because it is a much faster platform for me. Plus, magnums are loud!!!

I couldn't imagine someone feeling much of a difference between 600J-1000J of energy, but what many people say are true. Pathologists have repeatedly trumpeted the devastating effects of .357. If that's true, which I'm sure it is, means that the numbers really don't lie to us here. The .357 is just more effective. IF you can handle it, that is.
 
Using the best loads available there isn't enough difference between any of the common rounds to argue about. But we still do. If you are comparing the best 357 HP loads to 45 ACP shooting FMJ ammo it isn't even close, 357 wins.
 
.357v.45

I look at it like this. I didn't see the United States Military jump on any bandwagon when the .357 made it's debut. Did you? The 1911/.45ACP has ended more personal and world conflicts than probably any other handgun caliber out there. That's what is on my belt here at the office as I write this.

Papa!
aka Tim
 
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