How similar is a 357 HP to a 45 ACP?

L

Lee Enfield

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As you may know, there's a lot of debate between the 357 and 45 rounds, and I'm specifically here about penetration vs stopping power. Would a 357 hollow point be similar to a 45 ACP (non HP)? So, is the energy in a .357 HP is consumed at the initial target/hit area like a 45 ACP due to the hollow point design; or, does the 357 HP relatively continue to penetrate? Or, are they really close in ballistics performance between penetration and stopping power? I know that there are more variables to consider, but all else constant, how do each of these compare? Thanks in advance.
 
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lee enfield said:
I'm specifically here about penetration vs stopping power
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What is "stopping power"? I can calculate the kinetic energy (KE = 1/2 * MV**2), but unless you're talking about the Taylor KO factor, I don't know of anyone who can calculate "stopping power".

They are both pistol rounds. No difference between them in "stopping power".

You can find a difference in energy, momentum, etc, numbers in them if that makes you happy.

If you like energy, the 357 will generally win. If you like momentum, the 45 will generally win.

No one that you shoot with either one while attempting to stop them will be able to tell you the difference.
 
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This might help

The 125 grain hollowpoint police loading in .357 has lots of evidence to show it was the most reliable one shot stop defensive cartridge. The industry has changed so much since then I'm not sure that still stands.
 
Hands down the winner is...

The .45 has a glaring flaw. It requires the user to shoot until the threat stops, which can happen in as few as one shot, up to and including several magazines worth of hits, depending on the mental / physical / chemical state of the attacker.

Whereas the .357 can stop a threat in as few as 1 shot up to and including several *speed loaders* worth of hits.

As you can see the difference is drastic.
 
I'm basically trying to see if a hollow point 357 can replace a 45 ACP as a substitute, and vice versa (not on the same gun, of course... performance-wise)... if you adjust grain amounts on the .357 HP, is it equal to a 45 ACP in terms of its performance on penetration and initial impact ballistics?
 
Weight of the bullet isn't the only thing that determines effectiveness or lack thereof. Speed, bullet construction, shot placement, and near-infinite assailant variability all come into play.

Fight for your life till you are safe, regardless of gun choice. Some folks keep going after getting hit with shotguns. Your assailant has a bigger vote in the fight than your hardware does.

You are asking "if a hollow point 357 can replace a 45 ACP as a substitute". Sure! They are both poor stoppers unless you get lucky.

Which can you achieve better speed / placement with? That one is better (for you).
 
There's no such thing as stopping power or initial impact ballistics. Nothing will stop anything or anybody in its tracks. Certainly no handgun bullet. Physics doesn't allow it.
Initial impact isn't ballistics.
Kinetic energy is physics too. Big stuff has more than little stuff. Drop a brick on your foot from a yard high and a feather.
"...if a hollow point 357 can replace a 45 ACP as a substitute..." Of course, it can. If you can shoot both equally well.
"...It requires the user to shoot until the threat stops..." So does anything else.
 
Essentially, the two are not similar, and not equal.
Neither are they directly comparable.
Either can "replace" the other.

Pick one & go with it.
Denis
 
you can load up a 200gr .357 at 1200+ fps. the .45 lugs a 230gr at 700-900FPS. I don't have data for a 230gr .357, but I am sure it has been done, and will exceed the speed of the .45. I would go with the extra couple hundred FPS over the .1 inch in diameter. if you going with HP vs FMJ, of course I would choose the hollow-point loading in either caliber over FMJ in the other.
 
Isn't "stopping power" the effect on the vital organs?...like the brain, heart, thorax, or groin? That can be a .22LR on first shot. Or are you looking at a "push away" slow down or flooring action that stops the charge? The type of ammo at close range will make the effect with the accuracy and energy put forth. This would, of course be possible with a .357 semi-jacketed hollow point or a similar .44 Special. It would also require a "practiced", precision aim at the vital part that stops the charge and keeps you alive.
 
I am very bias and love the 357 magnum. I have to say this. No matter what gun you pick its more about the shooter and the shootee (is that a word?) than it is about the round.
 
To compare the possibilities of the .357 vs. the .45 ACP, one must also take into consideration the delivery platform. Generally revolvers can handle much, much hotter and heavier loads than the standard .45 ACP such as the 1911.


Wrap the .45 into the guise of the .45 Auto Rim and the potential rises sharply.
A Speer engineer designed a heavy bullet with just this in mind.
 
Isn't "stopping power" the effect on the vital organs?..
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No
"Stopping power" is a meaningless term invented by people trying to compare things when no real comparison is possible due to all the variables involved

What has to be considered as more important is the relative percentage of one shot stops for a given cartridge in long term studies.

When viewed in that manner, the 40, 357, and 45 are fairly close in performance with the 357 being the better of the three

This has nothing to do with "lethality"
 
DPris said:
Essentially, the two are not similar, and not equal.
Neither are they directly comparable.
Either can "replace" the other.

Pick one & go with it.
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+1. IMHO this is the final answer. :) The original question...
Lee Enfield said:
I know that there are more variables to consider, but all else constant, how do each of these compare?
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...is like asking "I'm considering buying a 99 Camaro SS or an 03 Honda S2000, which is a better performance car, all else constant?"

Both are fast. Both are fun to drive. However, they have different virtues, and are superior to one another in some respects while inferior in others. If you pick ONE very specific contest, a winner can potentially be declared, but neither is consistently better at everything than the other. All else is NOT constant. Pick the one you like. :)
Boncrayon said:
...are you looking at a "push away" slow down or flooring action that stops the charge?
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Huh?

Unless we're talking about explosive or incendiary rounds, no firearm projectile can physically deliver more energy on the target than it exerts upon the shooter on firing. If it is powerful enough to push the target down, it will also push the shooter down.

Heavy machine guns, autocannon, and light artillery have "flooring action", which is why they're normally affixed firmly to the ground or to a vehicle or other platform. For handgun rounds, this effect is negligible.
 
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Another thing to consider is the blast and flash of the .357 round vs. the .45ACP. Particularly in an enclosed area such as a room. TV and movies don't even begin to come close to portraying the reality of such shooting.
 
"I'm considering buying a 99 Camaro SS or an 03 Honda S2000, which is a better performance car, all else constant?"
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A 357 is like a quick moving mid size car and a 45 acp is like a slow moving 2 1/2 tom truck.
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It's like asking which one would hurt more, getting run over either option is terrible, but different beasts and depends on the circumstances of what you're running into. Good analogy.

I guess asking if a hollow point version of a 357 will behave relatively more like a 45 ACP is moot... since you may as well get the 45 ACP if you really wanted it to work a certain way... unless one is interested in different results with the same platform, skills of the shooter aside.
 
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