How much gun?

Finally have a break and am going to take one of the bikes out this afternoon (the 1900 V-twin) to cruise around some of the Coastal hills and backroads.

Since my CS45 is clean and some mags loaded (since I just used it as one of my LEOSA qual weapons) I think I'll belt it on for the day's ride. It balances in the hand well and it lets me put 1 & 2-handed rapid clustered hits at reasonable defensive distances. While the old Ashley Express Big Dot sights are a bit slow for longer distances (meaning out at to 50+yds), that sort of distance is more something I do to occiasonally assess the consistency of my basics, than ever expecting to fire the gun at those distances off the range. (Granted, my firearms instructor and instructor update classes did require scored courses-of-fire that went out to 50yds.)

Only having 6+1 and a spare 6rd mag on my belt (and maybe a second spare tucked in a jacket pocket) reminds me of the days I used to carry a service revolver & 2 speedloaders (even when working the more remote areas where cover/help could be 30-45+ minutes away).

Why not one of my small or large pistols that have 10-12rd mags? I like that subcompact .45 (3 1/4" barrel), and I don't obsess over capacity. I spent too many years investing more effort on skillset than mag capacity.
 
This is quite the thread so I guess I'll join in. I have two carry guns that I actually carry, one at a time, and three I haven't carried yet. My usual carry is a Sig p238 in the inside pocket of a Duluth travel vest that is not specifically designed for carry. I carry two spare mags for it. I have two other carry vests and two small "man bags" I can clip on my belt that will hold the sig. Occasionally I carry IWB. I carry when I go into St. Louis and when I'm bike riding out in the country. My other carry gun is a Bersa Thuder 380 CC. Nice little gun and I have one spare mag for it. I could carry my EAA Windicator 38 special and /or my Springfield XDE. Both are larger. I shoot the sig and the bersa pretty well. I shoot the 38 spl really well, and I'm not so good with the Springfield. I have a Taurus PT 22 that I could carry but why? Once a friend asked me why I carry on bike rides in the country. My answer . . . "Meth houses." That seemed to satisfy him.

Life is good.
Prof Young
 
This actually has been helpful for me. I realized I had real holes in my EDC and they weren't firearms! I picked up a pocket tactical flashlight that's plenty bright for lighting things up. I found a Leatherman "Skeletool" and have started carrying it. Besides a very nice blade I can open one handed, it packs pliers, wirecutters and a screwdriver into a space the size of a typical pocket knife. No self defense uses yet, but I've tightened several screws and opened several bottles of beer :). It's a really useful tool!

I've realized I shoot best with a double stack, and my XD Subcompact isn't hard to carry the majority of the time. If I need to go smaller and lighter, the I can still pack 8 rounds into my PPS. I've found that I really like the XS sights I put on the Walther and plan to out the same on the Springfield, so at least both guns will sight the same. I'll have to try a few magazine holders and see what works. The magnetic pocket clips look pretty good... anyone have experience with these?
 
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My daily carry is usually one of 2 snubbys. An LCR 357 or an SP101 with a couple speed strips that I've practiced extensively with. I feel pretty safe with that set up as well as having a flashlight and some degree of knife in my pocket. I will on occasion carry a Glock 30sf with 2 spare mags. That's usually on road trips. That's because I believe if something were to happen between towns, there's a lot higher chance that there will be absolutely no one else around to help. I don't necessarily rely on someone to step in but I don't feel undergunned in a crowded gas station with a snubby in the middle of a sunny day as I would with the same set up in a broken down pickup 50 miles from the nearest civilization in the middle of the night. I may regret that some day. But chances are I'll regret not having a high capacity defensive rifle more than a high cap handgun. That's my reasoning behind my carry set up.
 
My daily carry is usually one of 2 snubbys. An LCR 357 or an SP101 with a couple speed strips that I've practiced extensively with. I feel pretty safe with that set up...
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Do you have any objective basis at all for feeling "pretty safe"?

Do you really think that you could make use of your speed strips during a tumultuous violent attack in close quarters?

....between towns, there's a lot higher chance that there will be absolutely no one else around to help
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Under what circumstances might you expect domino to help you in the event of an attack that materializes in a second and a half?

Don't take these comments personally--just test your assumptions.

Consider a few things:
  • An attack that would require (and justify) the use of deadly force is lilikely to take form and occur in a second or three.
  • Ther is no reaon to expect your assailant to be working alone.
  • The targets will undoubtedly be moving fast, and will be difficult to hit.
  • It is unlikly that a single hit from a handgun will effect a stop--most trainers teach the shooting of three to five shots to stop an attacker.
  • Regardless of the perceived likelihood that an attack may occur in one kind of venue vs. another, what you will need to have with you once the balloon goes up will not differ.

You should set aside the time and resources to avail yourself of a good, realistic self defense course. Until I had done that, I often carried a five shot snub revolver myself.

What really surmised me was finding that a good double-column 9mm was really on larger in most dimensions.
 
Well I have been through a couple courses. Nothing seriously in depth but a course none the less. I'm not saying any of your points are incorrect but I believe the best firearm is the one you have on you and my snubs fit that bill. There's no excuse for me to not have one of them on me. I know speed strips are not as fast as magazines but I feel confident I could use them in a close quarters role depending on the circumstances. If the assailant is violently beating me about the head, probably not. If the assailant is 3 feet in front of me and my life depends on a reload before he pulls a trigger I'm not sure a magazine would save me either. That's just me. I didn't take anything you said personally. Don't take anything I said personally either. And growing up with revolvers I'll probably always be a little better with one of them vs a semi auto which in the grand scheme I'm fairly new to. I plan to take more in depth classes in time and maybe my carry choice will change. Perceived danger is very different from worst case scenario. I'm not sure what you mean by an objective basis. I've never been in a shoot out. The only training before the few handgun classes I've taken was in the military which I know mostly doesn't apply in civilian life because I'm not armed with an m16 and won't have a squad with me. So I guess I don't have an objective basis if I am understanding it a little.I'll continue to train with my semi autos but I'm not sure revolvers will ever be pushed out of my rotation.
 
But I do appreciate ervery persons advice and will not take it lightly. I will continue to enhance my abilities and and take everything you've said with serious consideration. Thank you.
 
I know speed strips are not as fast as magazines but I feel confident I could use them in a close quarters role depending on the circumstances.
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If you attacker is stationary and out of range with his contact weapon and remains so for sufficient time, and you still somehow have a lawful basis for using deadly force (and that would be extremely questionable), maybe.

If the assailant is 3 feet in front of me and my life depends on a reload before he pulls a trigger I'm not sure a magazine would save me either.
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It wouldn't.

I'm not sure what you mean by an objective basis.
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Basing your conclusions on a realistic scenario or set of scenarios (fast moving attackers with a Tueller-derived one and a half second time to draw and shoot while moving; on how fast you can shoot while still achieving combat accuracy in such a scenario; and on a realistic assessment of the probable number of hits you will require effect physical stops.

An earlier version of this appeared here several years ago:


You need to guess at a couple of things:
  • The percentage of your shots, fired in, say, one and a half to four seconds, that you believe will strike a fast moving attacker or two.
  • How many hits will that you believe will likely be required to effect phsyical stops; remember that unless your bullets strike critical parts of the moving body that you cannot see, they will most likely not save you.

Vary your assumptions and form your conclusions.

My first exposure to this coincided roughly with the time I took my first good defensive shooting training class.

I retired my five shot revolver from primary carry within days.
 
Thank you for your input. I feel as though I may have offended you and that was far from my intention. I will take everything you said seriously because it is obvious to me that you are far more advanced in this subject than myself (seriously, no sarcasm). I'm not incredibly skilled with a keyboard and putting my words onto paper without sounding like a prick. I reread my post several times and figured that I had been as polite as possible but there is a significant loss of tone in the written word. But moving on, thank you again.
 
i always carry a gun......whether its slipping a 32 in my pocket for a day at the office up to a 9mm in an iwb holster when im out and about....to a glock 10mm when im in the woods. Im 50 and have been carrying pretty much my entire adult life, my carry has evolved over time from something like a fullsize 1911 or glock 22 to a sig 938, glock 27, pf9, snub 38.

When you read the statistics on gun incidents.....it seems like you really dont need to carry all that much firepower. I cant recall the exact figures but it seems like simply having a gun ended something like 50 or 60% of confrontations without a shot fires....and i believe the average number of shots for confrontations that go to shots fired was something under 2. So yeah you will always hear about the guy on pcp that had to be shot 10 times and tasered and maced and he was still coming but that is so rare its not even a blip statistically. Staying alert, always carrying, good judgement will get you out of most incidents unscathed
 
Kwik, you're doin' fine.

Look--we all have to start out somewhere. I started out shooting one handed, the way the police used to; at seven yards, because that's what you see everywhere; slowly, because that's what I knew; and concentrating on group size.

Training courses really help.

If you can get some videos of The Best Defense and see Mike Seeklander and Michael Janich demonstrate a few scrod encounters, you will gain something.

Ans look into getting a premium membership with I. C. E. PDN and watch the videos.
 
When you read the statistics on gun incidents.....it seems like you really dont need to carry all that much firepower. I cant recall the exact figures but it seems like simply having a gun ended something like 50 or 60% of confrontations without a shot fires....and i believe the average number of shots for confrontations that go to shots fired was something under 2.
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Not having a gun at all is okay for most people, most of the time. When a gun is needed, it will likely not have to be fired. But once the need to shoot arises, all of those other parts of the statistical distribution curve are erased from the chart.
 
If the assailant is 3 feet in front of me and my life depends on a reload before he pulls a trigger I'm not sure a magazine would save me either.
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Not if you stand still; but you can run like a rabbit and reload a magazine. I don't think I could pull that off with a speed strip. In participating in force on force with sims, I've seen more than few people do the reload on the run thing when they went to slide lock. Of course, about 80% of the time that resulted in the other guy running after them and shooting them in the back (if the scenario allowed). That other 20% was very entertaining though.
 
OldMarksman said:
Not having a gun at all is okay for most people, most of the time. When a gun is needed, it will likely not have to be fired. But once the need to shoot arises, all of those other parts of the statistical distribution curve are erased from the chart.
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This is a point I take very seriously. Muggers, etc. seem rarely to work alone. And yeah, lots of cases exist in which someone (especially someone on drugs!) is shot multiple times and just keeps on a-coming. That's what has steered me toward carrying a double rather than single stack..for only a few more oz and maybe a pencil-width's difference, I can have twice the capacity.

The funny thing is, due to locations where I need to be almost every day (where firearms aren't allowed even locked in cars), most days I'm unarmed. And I don't walk around nervous about it. Yet on days when I can carry, I feel "under gunned" if I have the single stack. :)
 
How much gun? Use enough gun! After all, the whole point is to STOP them right there before they can do any harm, not kill them.

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It is enough gun when you can make an accurate second shot that hits what you are aiming at in a reasonably fast amount of time. It is too much gun if you are fighting recoil too much to make this happen.
 
At home where size and weight are not much of a consideration, I use a 2.75" Ruger Redhawk 44. as a home defense weapon. If I exhaust all 6 shots, the only other weapon outside of the safe is my CCW (Browning HP 9mm) which resides in my sock drawer and a 20ga weatherby pump which is affixed to a wall mount behind my nightstand.
 
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