How much does a good trigger matter to you?

Its opinion, and worth what you pay for it...maybe

I would say its probably more, and broader experience on their part. There really is nothing wrong with a box stock Glock trigger
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I have to disagree on this one. And its from personal experience. I have handled and shot GLocks (as well as other guns) with absolutely miserable triggers. I have also shot Glocks with what I could call "fair" triggers. Its more than just the style of the mechanism.

Sure, for the stress of combat (and some police work) finely tuned (so called hair triggers) are not an advantage, and likely the opposite. But that doesn't mean we should have to put up with bad triggers.

100% of my shooting in the last 50 years has NOT been in combat/police/defensive situations. Sure, I have practiced for that, any prudent person would. But combat shooting is not the be all end all of handgunning, even if it is a critical skill when push comes to shove.

I wouldn't put up with a GLock type trigger pull (which so many say there is nothing wrong with) on a .22 sport pistol, or a hunting revolver. Would you, if there was an alternative (and thankfully, there is)?

People who learn shooting with GLocks and similar guns do well, they learn the trigger, and think its fine. People who have a lifetime's experience shooting guns that actually have good triggers, tend to think the GLock sucks in that department.

Its all opinion, and what matters to you. Shoot what you like, and like what you shoot. But don't bother trying to convince me that what I think is crap is really OK, or even great. I know better. Do that for me, and I'll do the same for you, and we can go on to discuss really important things like auto vs revolver, Ford vs chevy, blondes vs redheads, etc...
 
The first Glock I shot was many,many years ago. It was stock and when I pulled the trigger, I can remember thinking to myself, 'this is the gun there's such a rave about?' The spongy, loooong reset and in general, feel of a 'plastic,toy cap gun' feeling was what I experienced.

Needless to say, due to the grip angle, trigger and just the feel of polymer(called it plastic in another thread and was corrected:D) I knew the Glock was not for me.

Simply cause it was not what I was accustomed to shooting. Period!

Since, I've shot quite a few Glocks and those having had some trigger tuning done, have found them to be tolerable. Not target triggers but ok 4lb. or so triggers that are not near as spongy feeling.

In all honesty, I can say I've never felt a Glock trigger, tuned or otherwise that has compared to a tuned combat or target 1911 trigger. Especially in the crispness department. They may exist,don't know. I'd like to feel one.
 
I wasn't correcting you Shortwave, just poking some fun at the hard core Glock fanboys who are quick to say "Polymer damnit !"

Just like some people get upset when you call the slide stop the slide release :D

There is something to say about experience. I am getting better with my Glock.

My first time shooting it against small 5" x 5" bullseye targets at 25 feet I was very surprised that I even missed the target with one of the rounds. Needless to say the other 5 round shot groups were 3 to 4 inches.

I went to the range yesterday and was eventually able to create one 5 round shot group that was 1¼" at 25 feet I wanted to try to repeat it but my arms were getting tired. At some point the inaccuracy introduced by my tired arm muscles overshadowed my problem with the trigger.

The other thing about the Glock trigger - is that it's not tunable by margins. You basically have to put in a whole kit.

A S&W or 1911, you take it to a smith and it's like turning the volume knob on your radio.

It's not like that with a Glock. You get some small improvements with the 25¢ trigger job, but everything else requires changing out parts, up to and including the whole trigger assembly.
 
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People who learn shooting with GLocks and similar guns do well, they learn the trigger, and think its fine. People who have a lifetime's experience shooting guns that actually have good triggers, tend to think the GLock sucks in that department.
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I learned to shoot handguns on Colt 1911's and older S&W/Colt revolvers in SA, at least until I saw the light. A lot of years and guns down the road now, and I still have and shoot all sorts of different guns with all sorts of triggers types. Some are even what most would consider "tuned" target triggers. I also shoot box stock Glocks (I currently have 11 of them) and have no troubles with their triggers either. I also have no troubles shooting HK 90 series rifles and SMG's with their factory triggers, which many US shooters seem to have a major issue with. They too are much like a Glock trigger, and if you havent shot them much, may seem "bad", where in reality, its just your lack of experience with them. Spend a little time with them, and they magically seem to get better, just like the Glocks do for a SA shooter who actually bothers to try. Once you've learned to let go of the need for a specific type of trigger, a whole new world opens to you.

Except in the rare instances where there is something mechanically wrong or out of spec with the gun, and you do see it from time to time, its really not the guns fault if you cant shoot it. Especially if you really gave it a good try and spent some time with it to learn it.

I think a lot of the disparity here is just, lack of "real" experience with "different" things to really know. Do those who complain about one type or another actually have a reasonable amount of "real" experience to even comment? Just because you "tried" something once or twice, and didnt like it, doesnt mean that, with a little effort on your part, you couldnt learn to shoot with something you claim is unshootable. Putting forth that effort, usually pays dividends and expands your horizons, allowing you to be a better all around shooter, with just about anything you pick up.

Its all opinion, and what matters to you. Shoot what you like, and like what you shoot. But don't bother trying to convince me that what I think is crap is really OK, or even great. I know better. Do that for me, and I'll do the same for you...
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Yup, youre right, and it does work both ways here. Just because you dont like or cant shoot something doesnt mean I have the same issues and cant.

The whole trigger issue just boils down to what "you" can or cant shoot, for whatever reason or excuse you choose to come up with. It really doent matter one way or the other, except to you.

There is something to say about experience. I am getting better with my Glock.
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Ahhh, a light is starting to come on. :)

It's not like that with a Glock. You get some small improvements with the 25¢ trigger job, but everything else requires changing out parts, up to and including the whole trigger assembly.
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Just a hint here, the trouble isnt the gun or the parts. ;)

If you stick with it, the light will get brighter, I promise. :)
 
Ahhh, a light is starting to come on. If you stick with it, the light will get brighter, I promise. AK103K
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There is an upper limit to how well you can do in slow fire bullseye shooting with a trigger that has a long pull and requires a lots of pounds of resistance. It's not a linear scale that angles into the heavens so that one day with enough practice you'll be putting 5 rounds through the same hole in the bullseye of your target.

Applying force to the tigger causes force vectors to be applied to the pistol, without a firm grip you would see this manifesteed as a wobbly front sight. The more force you have to apply to the trigger the more force and effort it takes to keep the sight picture from changing.

If you wanted a super-accurate firarm it would be one with no moving parts at all, a round that was fired electronically and progessed down a barrel that was welded into place and completely prevented from moving.

Generally speaking, the less movement - the more accurate a firearm is.

The more pounds it takes to move a trigger, the more movement is transferred to the firearm.

A trigger that unexpectedly lets up or becomes stiff also tens to introduce movement.

Yes - a good grip mitigates those things, but if I have a good grip and I am using a smooth, short, clean breaking light trigger - I am going to shoot much better with the same grip than with a not so smooth, long and heavy trigger.
 
A decent amout, I like a good single action 1911 trigger break. However, you can learn to shoot any type of trigger there is accuratley. I believe, Id just rather have a smooth one.
 
There is an upper limit to how well you can do in slow fire bullseye shooting with a trigger that has a long pull and requires a lots of pounds of resistance.
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Some of the problem here is the apples to oranges comparisons for use. You said you were doing better with experience with your Glock, but you said nothing about bullseye shooting with it. A Glock wouldnt probably be my choice for that type of shooting either, but at 25', even with a Glock, ragged little holes are not difficult. 25 to 50 yards is a different story.

Applying force to the tigger causes force vectors to be applied to the pistol, without a firm grip you would see this manifesteed as a wobbly front sight. The more force you have to apply to the trigger the more force and effort it takes to keep the sight picture from changing.
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You can try to over analyze it all you want, or you can just shoot the gun. Stop "thinking" about it, and just use the force. :)

A very light trigger can be just as much a detriment as it can be a help with some guns. When I was trying overcome shooting full power 44 mags out of my 4" Model 29, with its super light, SA trigger, knowing the gun was going off as soon as I barely touched the trigger was actually a bad thing. Switching to DAO was at first a bit of a challenge, as I wasnt used to it, but it did force me to watch the important part of the equation, the sights and holding their alignment through the stroke, and that surprise break. Once I got used to it, my "groups" shrank considerably, and as the light got brighter, the body count on those 75-100 yards chucks started to rise pretty quick.


As bad as the Glock haters want it to be, even with the stock triggers, they are not at all hard to shoot well with.

This was done with one of the out of the box Glock 17's I normally carry at 10 yards or so, some from a concealed holster and some from a SUL ready position, with some double taps included. Thats around a 100 rounds or so. Do you suppose that might tighten up with deliberate slow fire at a bullseye target?...

ry%3D400
 
No Kidding. Gravel trigger that have a break that you dont even know what happend. I had a Ruger P89 like that got a S&W 5906 like going from a Chevet to a Charger. My S&W1911 is like going From Pinto to Ferrari.
 
I don't think the OP was about what you can learn to shoot well enough, it was about how important a good trigger pull is to you or me.

IF your focus is on duty class auto pistols, that's fine, and a really good trigger isn't needed to get the job done adequately, or even well, if you are a good shot.

However, the "ok" trigger we put up with on a service class auto (and yes, that includes the GLock, among others) is totally unacceptable (or at least a serious drawback) to other shooting disciplines. How many T/C Contenders do you think they would sell if they had the same feel to their trigger as a service grade auto? Not a lot, I'm betting.

When I was trying overcome shooting full power 44 mags out of my 4" Model 29, with its super light, SA trigger, knowing the gun was going off as soon as I barely touched the trigger was actually a bad thing.
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Here is a good example of extensive training (experience) with one kind of trigger feel being detrimental to shooting well with another kind of feel. Do things enough one way, and you try to always do them that way, at a below concious level. Drive a stick shift (and nothing but) for a long time, and I bet you will find yourself trying to step on the clutch when you get in and drive and automatic! Even though your concious mind knows the difference, your habits try to assert themselves.

The fellow who shoots all the time with a service grade trigger has trouble when he goes to shoot something with a match trigger. The fellow who shoots match grade (tuned, if you will) will have trouble with the service grade trigger also.

It can be overcome, it just takes a little time to learn to adjust. Since the majority of my handguns have fair to really good triggers, (I'm not big into stock service grade autos) a good trigger is important to me, as I don't enjoy having to adjust. I do it, for those guns I have that need it, it just makes them less than my favorites, as far as trigger pull is concerned.

I prefer the trigger on my 1936 Luger to the GLocks I have shot. The Luger is far from the best I have for trigger pull, but it has the feel I am used to. Now, if the rest of the Luger worked as well as the rest of the GLock, that would be something!
 
The fellow who shoots all the time with a service grade trigger has trouble when he goes to shoot something with a match trigger. The fellow who shoots match grade (tuned, if you will) will have trouble with the service grade trigger also.
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If they only shoot one or the other, absolutely. If they at least mix them up once in awhile, assuming they can shoot them all without trouble, then its usually not as bad.

The ones I seem to have the most trouble with these days are my buddys Nighthawks. They have triggers that rival any of the"match" triggers Ive shot, but for me, they are WAY to light, especially for a carry gun. I almost always get doubles out of them the first few mags I shoot out of them, until I settle down. My Colts have the triggers they came out of the box with, and while heavy (5-6 pounds) by the Nighthawks standards, and I still shoot just as well with them as I do the Nighthawks.

My buddy is one of those people who seems to only be able to shoot guns with light/tuned triggers. Hand him one of my Glocks, SIG's, Colts, or one of my DAO S&W revolvers, and he has all kinds of troubles and excuses. None of the troubles has anything to do with the guns, he just wont take the time or put forth any effort to improve himself in that respect.

This has pretty much been my whole point here all along, those who shoot "everything", tend to shoot everything much better, than those who only shoot "one" thing well. They arent handicapped or as bothered when they encounter something some would consider "bad". I can shoot triggers that arent perfect, or even good, and I can shoot great triggers, but thats because I shoot them all and dont dwell on the triggers. It usually doenst work the other way around.

Using the standard vs auto transmission analogy, those of us who do drive sticks, have little troubles with the autos, even if we do still reach for the stick and clutch when driving one (my cars must also have an invisible brake pedal on the passenger side too. :) ) Those who learned on the autos (like those stuck on tuned triggers) are really behind the curve when it comes to anything but what they are accustomed to. You just never know when you might have to jump up on that old Peterbuilt or Mack and drive that thing off, just like you never know when a Glock or a 642 is all you get to make that one quick shot.

Nothing at all wrong with tuned triggers (on appropriate guns), but if they are all you can shoot well with, its time to expand your horizons. I think youll also find learning to shoot those crappy triggers will also make you a better shooter in those disciplines that do require a tuned trigger.
 
A good trigger is mandatory for me. My handguns have action jobs some of which I've done myself. I like zero creep in SA and a smooth light double action pull on my revolvers. My only semi autos are carry guns and they both have crappy triggers. I've only fired one gun with a stock trigger I am happy with out of the box. It is a Marlin XL7 adjusted as light as it goes which is about 2.5lbs and breaks clean.

One of my .44 mags has about a 1.5lb SA trigger. Other guns have between 2-3lb pulls and break clean, no creep. I like to hit what I'm aiming at as much as possible.

I will not own a gun with a bad trigger or even a heavy trigger. It affects your ability to be your best with that gun. Anyone who thinks triggers don't matter haven't been shooting enough yet to appreciate the difference.

If anyone thinks people who use refined triggers can't shoot well with crappy triggers they are wrong. As a matter of fact those of us who require good triggers fired enough rounds over the years to have a pretty good idea of what works best. There's a reason the best shooters in competition like Silhouette have nice triggers. Shooting out to 200 meters with a poor trigger is a handicap no matter how good you are. I'd like to see someone compete with a crappy trigger and be competitive. And would really like to see those who claim they shoot as accurately or better in DA as single action hit targets at silhouette ranges. That would be pretty interesting.
 
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One of my favorite pastimes back when I was shooting at our local High Power and the military rifle matches, was to challenge the boys who always insisted you cant shoot well unless you have the latest and greatest rifles, clothes, gizmos, etc, to shoot against me with a club gun drawn from the rack, in their street clothes, with only a couple of spotters to get zeroed. I think in all the times I did it (and I did it a bunch over the years), I lost twice, or at least thats all I remember at this point. Hey, what can I say, CRS ya know. Boy, did the crying and excuses fly when you took away their favorite toys and made them shoot with "bad" stuff. :)


If you feel the need to have a certain type of trigger, have at it. If thats all you use, the only person youre handicapping, is yourself. No skin off my butt. I would suggest you get out and go slumming more though. :)



You can either shoot or you cant. If you cant, it usually because you dont shoot enough. If you need "crutches" to shoot well, then you dont shoot enough. If you do get good enough, to the point where things do get down to more minute things, then youre now at a different level and if shooting against like shooters, things begin to change. Just because you bought a souped up, $2500 race gun, silhouette gun, super match, whatever, will not make you a better shooter. It may make those who are at that level able to be more competitive at that level, but it wont make you one of them.
 
You have a very good point regarding learning trigger control. After thinking about it I think newer shooters should stick to stock triggers as it will force them into learning good trigger control. Going from a target trigger to a regular trigger would be very difficult and would be a handicap. I forget not many people have as much experience and practice as I have. I rarely shoot rifles so it's iron sights only.

I've been shooting since I was a kid and I'm 58 now. It's been my favorite hobby for decades. I've used lots of different triggers for thousands and thousands of rounds. There's usually a gun laying around I can practice with in our living room. I have no need for more practice with any stock trigger as I can shoot well with any trigger. I'm not going to get much better at using a poor trigger at this point. I like to shoot small groups as I can so a good trigger is important due to my oldness. Long range plinking is also fun. I don't shoot at under 25 yards.

These days my eyes won't focus for long so I don't have much time to get a round off before everything gets blurry so if a good trigger is a handicap I guess I need one. If I want to do my very best like working up a load I have to give my eyes a rest between every shot. I miss my young eyes:(

I'm glad this came up because my wife finally agreed to learn to shoot and except for a couple of carry guns my guns are no place for her to start. Fortunately I have an excellent selection of guns I can borrow for her to learn on.
 
trigs

If you wanted a super-accurate firarm it would be one with no moving parts at all, a round that was fired electronically and progessed down a barrel that was welded into place and completely prevented from moving.
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+1
My thoughts went immediately to the electric triggers that Hammerli used to put on their Free Pistols. Not 100% the same idea but very similar and Very accurate.

About going from one trigger to another.
I used to shoot both a Precision Pistol (Free Pistol) match and an Air Pistol match on the same day, one after another. Both guns have very light triggers compared to anything else - 0.5kg (17oz) for the air gun and two ounces for the Free pistol.
The Free match was always first and one then infiltrated into the Air gun match.
Going from the superlight trigger to another that took eight times the force was not a simple task at all.
Pete
 
You can either shoot or you cant. If you cant, it usually because you dont shoot enough. If you need "crutches" to shoot well, then you dont shoot enough. If you do get good enough, to the point where things do get down to more minute things, then youre now at a different level and if shooting against like shooters, things begin to change. Just because you bought a souped up, $2500 race gun, silhouette gun, super match, whatever, will not make you a better shooter.
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Maybe you just don't shoot good enough to tell the difference.
If you shoot the same scores with a box stock Glock as you do with a $2500 race gun the scores probably arn't worth bragging about.
Mom. Always said "remember when you point a finger there are three pointed back"
 
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Maybe you just don't shoot good enough to tell the difference.
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Good enough to qualify expert on the High Power and DCM/CMP ranges most of the last times out, and real close the few I didnt. Basically stock rifles (M1/M1A/AR) and no fancy triggers either.

Just what is "good enough"?

If you shoot the same scores with a box stock Glock as you do with a $2500 race gun the scores probably arn't worth bragging about.
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Youre absolutely right about that. My scores with those $2500 Nighthawks are usually terrible for the first couple of rounds or so compared to the Glocks, until I settle down with those scary light triggers. After that, not to bad. If I were to stand still and try bullseye again, I might even do a little better with them. If I could stay awake through the first mag. :)
 
Good enough to qualify expert on the High Power and DCM/CMP ranges most of the last times out, and real close the few I didnt. Basically stock rifles (M1/M1A/AR) and no fancy triggers either.

Just what is "good enough"?
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If you qualified expert in F class with a "basically stock" AR then talking about fancy triggers might mean something and I'd add that'd be more than "good enough". Since your probably shooting service rifle and they're limited to 4.5# minimum, crowing about using a trigger thats class mandated means nada.
 
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