How many shots is enough

I'm the one on this forum who gets verbally abused in these waters.

CCW: Glock 19

My lowest that I'll carry is 33 rounds. Usually it's 97 rounds if I'm going out or at my second job. Sometimes even more at my second job.

All Winchester Ranger T's 127gr +p+.
 
"Usually it's 97 rounds..."

Thats more than my local gun shop has on the shelf right now.

Pilgrim, you must be escorting a real bad dude onto the 3:10 to Yuma.
 
In my job I wear 9 month in the year only shirt and pants, so I can't carry a bigger gun than a derringer, because I can't and I won't carry it open. I don't know what kind of jobs the most of you have, that they can carry a full size pistol like a glock 17 , but for me is the derringer the only way to carry a powerfull gun, sure could I carry .22 like a astra cub or a beretta 950 but that guns have no stopping power.
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IWB like Crossbreed and Comp-Tac are excellent in this situation. You can stuff a M&Pc or similar moderate sized CC without difficult.
 
"Usually it's 97 rounds..."

Thats more than my local gun shop has on the shelf right now.

Pilgrim, you must be escorting a real bad dude onto the 3:10 to Yuma.
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I'm guessing law enforcement or military, no?
 
Currently for winter time I carry 45 rounds of 9mm.

For CC, somewhere between 5 and 22 rounds. After that, I run out of mag pouches.
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Mr. McGee I hope you don't end up spending more time reloading than shooting!:D;)

Statistically, isn't the average gunfight something like 1.7 rounds?
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Sounds more like a shooting than a gunfight! :eek:
 
I believe it was Col. Cooper who said the purpose of a handgun is to allow you to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun, so I guess the answer depends on how far away you are from your big hardware.;)
 
Knightsofnee said:
I believe it was Col. Cooper who said the purpose of a handgun is to allow you to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun, so I guess the answer depends on how far away you are from your big hardware.;)
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In war. Yes. Normal citizen CCW, no. Not likely. Your secondary becomes your primary when that's all you have.
 
As has already been mentioned, you're VERY unlikely to need to reload. That being said, part of carrying is also what makes one feel safe and comfortable in life. If packing an extra mag, just in case, makes you feel more confident...you should. When the stuff hits the fan, you'll probably shoot better with that extra confidence. In my opinion, if you truly do need more than one extra mag, you're screwed because obviously you're in a situation that requires something more serious than a pistol.
 
im a reformed 45 auto fan now a 9mm advocate. least for concealed carry. I think there are allot of assumptions about stopping power of the larger bullets that has not been supported by long term studies. My feeling is that someone should carry as large a capacity weapon as they can manage. 19 in my xdm compact is fine capacity wise but the long grip detracts from me wanting to carry the piece unless it can be covered under a coat or jacket, though with the 13 rounders its hidded well and lighter and I feel more likely ill carry that or my lc9 depending on concealment needs, no way would I sacrifice several rounds in the mag to bump up to the 40 or 45 or carry a full size pistol with fewer rounds on the belief that theres some huge difference in stopping power with the larger bullets. that's a myth not born out in fact. there might be some truth in stopping power when moving to magnum revolver calibers like the 357 or 44mag but at a huge sacrifice imo of capacity. wont even get into controllability for quick repeat shots where large calibers and magnums really are more difficult to control. Studies have shown the chances for hollow point bullet expansion are so low that your depending on sheer luck not science to one shot a bg because your packing a 45 with super-duper flying ashtray hollowpoints. again a myth that's been promoted over years that doesn't prove out in recent long term actual shooting data. The 40s&w, the bren 10 light ill call it. lets face it the 40 was the fbi`s answer to a problem that didn't exist. I don't know why I guess marketing, can sell more guns if there offered in many calibers, to us to police to military. Then of course you have the fans who tout the larger calibers, I used too, so I am familiar with that aspect. wasn't until I researched it when getting into concealed carry that ive come across this caliber conspirasy for lack of a good word. you can look at it like this, you have a size gun you can live with, you can opt for a 45 40 or 9mm, or 11,10, 9 mm bullet size, throw out expansion of the bullet. data supports that all three will get around the same amount of penetration in the target. holes in the target will cause said target(bg) to bleed out. well we all know how many shot you loose stepping up a millimeter, now ask if that extra millimeter is more likely to boost your odds that the bg will bleed out before he gets you or would you prefer a few extra rounds to convince him the error of his ways? anyway, I opt for the extra rounds the cheaper practice and faster shot to shot times of the 9mm.

I will say that those who like the magnum revolvers might have more likelyhood of bullet expansion due to much higher velocities. shock value would be more though stats ive seen don't bear out shock value of being struck by pistol rounds. were not talking about shooting steel plates and a hole threw the bad guy where there was no central nervous system involvement is not going to be significantly different from one round to any other. again, my opinion based on the data and analisys ive read :sourced fbi studies. and I can see where some could point to that same information and justify a larger caliber because of the actual low percentage of hits made on bad guys by even trained leo`s. But imo id rather up my odds for more hits by starting with more rounds on tap to begin with..
 
Studies have shown the chances for hollow point bullet expansion are so low that your depending on sheer luck . . .
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I would like to see a link to the studies you are referring to in that. I agree with your overall point that no one should count on a one shot stop with a handgun, but I am interested in knowing how infrequently and under what conditions modern hollow points fail to expand in the major calibers.
 
Studies have shown the chances for hollow point bullet expansion are so low that your depending on sheer luck . . .
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not so much sheer luck but problems with expansion are mostly due to clogged tips especially by bone.

As far as a SD scenario where more than a few rounds may be needed off the top of my head :

A home invasion/robbery by someone who does not want to leave a witness to identify them may likely shoot it out with you rather than leave you alive(especially if you are familiar with them).

A "Madman With A Gun" on a shooting spree. Mentally disturbed or seeking fame (both?).

I am sure someone will think of a few more but the odds are even lower than most SD cases.

But as for me, I see no reason with some of the places I have to go not to be as prepared as possible. At least one Hi-cap or two mags of 7 or I am staying home that day ;) The ghetto takes no prisoners.
 
Quote:
Studies have shown the chances for hollow point bullet expansion are so low that your depending on sheer luck . . .

I would like to see a link to the studies you are referring to in that. I agree with your overall point that no one should count on a one shot stop with a handgun, but I am interested in knowing how infrequently and under what conditions modern hollow points fail to expand in the major calibers.


this is a pdf http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf its somewhat based on professional opinion and as I think ive stated that my opinion on the matter is largely based on much of the information included in this report. you can research this all day long and find just about as many opinions on the subject of handguns terminal performance as people have rear ends. Im logical I believe, and this is compelling information. ive read a few other arcticles on the same subject covering much of the same data and have seen much the same conclusions as in the example I linked too. I think its safe to plop the 40 between the 9 and 45 that this discussion was aimed at. though some mention was given to 22lr and high powered rifle. I regret not finding a really excellent topic I read not long ago and have not found it in time to link it as well. it had much the same basic fbi conclusions but had more of the supporting data as well as a more in depth review of actual wound data, ahh well. yes the 45 and 40 make slightly bigger holes. no they can knock a man down by force of there energy.

if you look at many of the knockdown power advocates you always find less supported information as in this example, name and link to this example are
left out as I don't have an axe to grind and cant really see the point in arguing what facts are presented in such articles so its basically an example and not verbatim. ......

basically one officers story,(and ive read many other examples along the same lines) about how he shoots a bg 4 times with a 9mm and ends up getting stabbed, and of course another time when the same officer drops a bg with a 45 with one shot, practically taking him out of his shoes.,,

so theres an example of the stuff myths are made of, I am not calling this guy a liar. Could of gone down exactly as stated as well as some of the other examples ive read. just keep in mind that every situation is different, rarely see all the facts in these stories, like ballistic data or autopsy data. so imo again, I prefer to look at it logically and leave out emotional attachment to your personal choice and when you do you see that what counts most is shot placement far and away above caliber used. I think we all pretty much agree on that one point. bullet caliber is secondary, important but secondary, as a 9mm will with good shot placement do the job, and if the 9 will so will the 40 and the 45 obviously. I do think theres also the undeniable fact that without good shot placement it wont matter which caliber you use. All that supports my opinion that you should go with a gun you can shoot fast and accurately and has as much capacity as you can comfortably carry. My choice is the 9mm not because it has the most power on paper, but because it has enough power with the added bonuses of extra rounds and faster shot to shot times and is not abusive to the average shooter to become proficient with even in the smaller framed hideout guns like the lc9. Anyway hope the link is interesting reading for some, not really out to do a crusade on this subject, I am a little erked when I see a dealer pushing 40`s over 9`s to a newbie and people talking about knock down power should qualify that means on steel plates not people. but other than that just shoot straight.
 
I have not read all the posts so I may be repeating what's already been said.

There is no way to answer this question. Too many variables. I recall reading that the FBI said the average gunfight involved 1.5 rounds fired. So it would appear a two shot derringer would be perfect. But what if the gunfight you find yourself in isn't "average?" In today's world you may be attacked by a mob or gang. Although, history seems to indicate that criminal gangs are largely packs of cowards and the first shot, or even the display of a defensive sidearm will send them scurrying back to their holes so large ammo capacity isn't all that important.

I have 3 primary carry pistols. A 9mm S&W with a 14 round magazine. I do not want to bother with an additional magazine. The second is a Taurus TCP 380 for deep concealment. I pack one extra 6 round magazine giving me 13 total. The last is an old S&W M40 Centennial revolver. I carry one reload on a "Speed Strip" for a total of 10 rounds available.

So apparently I am comfortable with 10-14 rounds. I figure that would solve 99.5% of the problems I might encounter. You're always going to have that unresolved .5% to deal with.
 
YouTube robbery incidents. LiveLeak and The Associated Press. You'll see dozens upon dozens that don't go anything shorter than 5 rounds.

Better to be safe than sorry applies in my mindset on a daily basis.


Multiple attackers, bullets don't hit their intended mark, ammo left to top of for when you "think" the coast is clear, etc, etc.

Rather be prepared than not.

This has happened during and maybe after a gunfight: "I wish I had carried more ammo." If the person survived of course.


This has probably never happened during and maybe after a gun fight: "why did I carry so much ammo for? Stupid of me."
 
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