How do we measure winning the war on drugs?.......
- Thread starter too many choices!?
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LD,
A couple of items.
There is a sheriff in Arizona (Pheonix, I think) that puts prisoners in PINK jump suits, makes them live in tent cities and feeds them baloney sandwiches. They can't control them inside the walls from using.
IN MOST THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, the prisons make ours look like holiday spas. Guess what? Drugs are available there also.
So, TELL ME EXACTLY what you think could be done to keep this from happening? Greed and money will always win out over intelligence and good intentions.
You actually NEVER answered my question. HOW can you say we are winning the war on drugs when the people you lock up can still get drugs in prison? How is that STOPPING DRUG USE?
It's OK. I know how difficult this one is for you and most other LE's to admit defeat. Even if GEORGE SCHULTZ said the same thing thirty years ago. You know him right?
And I'll give you ALL a little insight into TEXAS prisons in the late fifties through the mid seventies. The guards rode horses when the 'chain gangs' were out working the fields, etc. The horses they rode were 'stump trained'. Stump trained means that with the correct signal, the horse COULD AND DID bite the top off of a four inch round fence post. Guess what happens to humans bitten by a horse? It ain't pretty.
A couple of items.
There is a sheriff in Arizona (Pheonix, I think) that puts prisoners in PINK jump suits, makes them live in tent cities and feeds them baloney sandwiches. They can't control them inside the walls from using.
IN MOST THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, the prisons make ours look like holiday spas. Guess what? Drugs are available there also.
So, TELL ME EXACTLY what you think could be done to keep this from happening? Greed and money will always win out over intelligence and good intentions.
You actually NEVER answered my question. HOW can you say we are winning the war on drugs when the people you lock up can still get drugs in prison? How is that STOPPING DRUG USE?
It's OK. I know how difficult this one is for you and most other LE's to admit defeat. Even if GEORGE SCHULTZ said the same thing thirty years ago. You know him right?
And I'll give you ALL a little insight into TEXAS prisons in the late fifties through the mid seventies. The guards rode horses when the 'chain gangs' were out working the fields, etc. The horses they rode were 'stump trained'. Stump trained means that with the correct signal, the horse COULD AND DID bite the top off of a four inch round fence post. Guess what happens to humans bitten by a horse? It ain't pretty.
Doctor Suarez
Inactive
My big problem with the notion of Marijuana as a "Gateway Drug" is that it's a self-perpetuating phenomenon. If Marijuana's illegal, people have to get it from drug dealers, which I believe does more to move hopheads on to worse substances than anything else. Treating it like Alcohol would go far towards relieving this.
I haven't done the research to deliver a comprehensive comment on the War on Drugs. However, in keeping with the overall theme to this forum, we should think about how TWOD has adversely affected our firearm rights.
By, in effect, creating a massive black market, we have ensured that even truly sensible gun laws, such as instant background checks, are easily circumvented. The black market that can move such a vast quantity of drugs has also clearly demonstrated its ability to flood the country with illegal guns, which nitwits in the Gun Control game assume to have been legally bought by people like us. Also, since we have a fantastically profitable industry that is wholly operated by criminals without any legal protection, those criminals USE their guns, and again, we get the blame.
While some particularly dissociative substances, such as PCP, cause violence by their very chemical nature, most drugs cause violence because they are traded in an illegal black market. Working to replace that black market with regulated, taxed, legal sales would do wonders to dry up the violence. As to the other, possibly negative effects, I am not qualified to comment.
There are other issues as well. Packing the prisons with pot dealers forces a parole system into being that allows more violent criminals into circulation. And since Parole is poorly enforced, parolees account for a shocking percentage of violent crimes. Also, let's not forget the increased scrutiny abilities granted to Federal and local law enforcement, ripe for abuse should the wrong people seize control of them.
This is not meant to be a ringing indictment of TWOD, simply a suggestion as to some of the harm it does in regards to rights we here hold sacred.
I haven't done the research to deliver a comprehensive comment on the War on Drugs. However, in keeping with the overall theme to this forum, we should think about how TWOD has adversely affected our firearm rights.
By, in effect, creating a massive black market, we have ensured that even truly sensible gun laws, such as instant background checks, are easily circumvented. The black market that can move such a vast quantity of drugs has also clearly demonstrated its ability to flood the country with illegal guns, which nitwits in the Gun Control game assume to have been legally bought by people like us. Also, since we have a fantastically profitable industry that is wholly operated by criminals without any legal protection, those criminals USE their guns, and again, we get the blame.
While some particularly dissociative substances, such as PCP, cause violence by their very chemical nature, most drugs cause violence because they are traded in an illegal black market. Working to replace that black market with regulated, taxed, legal sales would do wonders to dry up the violence. As to the other, possibly negative effects, I am not qualified to comment.
There are other issues as well. Packing the prisons with pot dealers forces a parole system into being that allows more violent criminals into circulation. And since Parole is poorly enforced, parolees account for a shocking percentage of violent crimes. Also, let's not forget the increased scrutiny abilities granted to Federal and local law enforcement, ripe for abuse should the wrong people seize control of them.
This is not meant to be a ringing indictment of TWOD, simply a suggestion as to some of the harm it does in regards to rights we here hold sacred.
too many choices!?
New member
I wonder who will be at the peace talks when the war on drugs ends, hmmm?
Marijuana will not show up for lack of motivation or maybe just forgetting where to go. Cocaine will not show up as it will be out supporting itself by stealing. Heroine won't attend as it will be on a drug induced cosmic tour. On second thought pot might show up for the buffet...Speed will be too busy chasing itself to be worried about the talks.....Pcp will not show up for being locked in the battle for second best drug of choice(both are losing to cocaine) with methamphetemines which hopes to displace Xstucy(ecstasy) later this year as the new celebrity drug of choice....
Our apologies for the drugs not being invited to the peace talks this go round but better luck next crime(pun intended). If you do more harm to numbers in the 'burbs you might make the list next year....
Stated in jest but with a ring of truth.....The way this war is fought does not use our resources efficiently enough.
Marijuana will not show up for lack of motivation or maybe just forgetting where to go. Cocaine will not show up as it will be out supporting itself by stealing. Heroine won't attend as it will be on a drug induced cosmic tour. On second thought pot might show up for the buffet...Speed will be too busy chasing itself to be worried about the talks.....Pcp will not show up for being locked in the battle for second best drug of choice(both are losing to cocaine) with methamphetemines which hopes to displace Xstucy(ecstasy) later this year as the new celebrity drug of choice....
Our apologies for the drugs not being invited to the peace talks this go round but better luck next crime(pun intended). If you do more harm to numbers in the 'burbs you might make the list next year....
Stated in jest but with a ring of truth.....The way this war is fought does not use our resources efficiently enough.
There are studies that effectively proved the 'gateway' drug about as accurate as wmd's in Iraq. Amsterdam is also a good example.
As a friend of mine also put it, the violence that surrounds drugs is not necessarily due to the drugs themselves, but the nature of black market deals. If it goes south, violence is their only solution, whereas a legal market would allow for legal reparations. The mobster era surrounding prohibition also dissolved when that was repealed. I'll bet that the count for violence due to alcohol is and would be much higher than pot even if it were legal. (non money related violence.)
As a friend of mine also put it, the violence that surrounds drugs is not necessarily due to the drugs themselves, but the nature of black market deals. If it goes south, violence is their only solution, whereas a legal market would allow for legal reparations. The mobster era surrounding prohibition also dissolved when that was repealed. I'll bet that the count for violence due to alcohol is and would be much higher than pot even if it were legal. (non money related violence.)
MeekAndMild
New member
This may be off topic, but needs to be said:
If we follow the exact same incarceration example found at Andersonville, moved forward into our wealthy society then we get prisons which are air conditioned, with first run movies, with catered food, a community college and free weekends. This is hardly a deterrent to crime.
FYI, prisoners at Andersonville were issued the same rations that Confederate soldiers were issued, were allowed personal (non weapon) possessions, were able to freely associate among themeselves. Their general conditions were roughly similar to Confederate soldiers in terms of housing, uniforms and sanitation. The trouble was that the society was so poor (similar in all respects to Biafra during the Nigerian civil war) that the captured invaders were pretty miserable once they were made equal to the rest of the country. The country was a terrible place and the prison was little worse.
If we follow the exact same incarceration example found at Andersonville, moved forward into our wealthy society then we get prisons which are air conditioned, with first run movies, with catered food, a community college and free weekends. This is hardly a deterrent to crime.
Howdy,
It seems to me we've fogotten the lessons learned from prohibition. Granted I am no where near old enough to remember but from all accounts it seemed like good intentions that lead to horrible circunstances. It is UTERALLY POINTLESS to incarserate an individual ( over the age of 18) who's only crime is strictly self dammaging.
It is the illegality of controled substances that makes the drug trade SO violent!!!! No one should ever die over marijuana but people do. No cop should ever have to worry about getting stabbed, shot, or killed by a junkie that is only posing a threat to himself.
On the flip side why should anyone have their life ruined becase of a stupid mistake. It serves no purpose to permantly punish an indiviual who only crime was purchasing drugs stricly for thier own consumption. The vast majority of people have expirmented with drugs and or alcohol. To lock a person up and brand them as a felon severely limits the oppurtunities had for a sucessful life. McDonalds won't even hire felons. My point is that a lot of potential is wasted in the prison system of this country. There is little to no rehabilitation in the penal system. More often than not once a person is released from prison there's a harsh and real possibility that they pose a greatter threat to society than prior to thier incarseration.
It seems to me we've fogotten the lessons learned from prohibition. Granted I am no where near old enough to remember but from all accounts it seemed like good intentions that lead to horrible circunstances. It is UTERALLY POINTLESS to incarserate an individual ( over the age of 18) who's only crime is strictly self dammaging.
It is the illegality of controled substances that makes the drug trade SO violent!!!! No one should ever die over marijuana but people do. No cop should ever have to worry about getting stabbed, shot, or killed by a junkie that is only posing a threat to himself.
On the flip side why should anyone have their life ruined becase of a stupid mistake. It serves no purpose to permantly punish an indiviual who only crime was purchasing drugs stricly for thier own consumption. The vast majority of people have expirmented with drugs and or alcohol. To lock a person up and brand them as a felon severely limits the oppurtunities had for a sucessful life. McDonalds won't even hire felons. My point is that a lot of potential is wasted in the prison system of this country. There is little to no rehabilitation in the penal system. More often than not once a person is released from prison there's a harsh and real possibility that they pose a greatter threat to society than prior to thier incarseration.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
How do we know if we're winning, is the question?
Well, I think the answer is pretty clearly is nationwide drug USE rates over time by people, INCLUDING the substitue alcohol, which is equally devastating. I don't know the answer, but I believe that we're losing it (quite predictably). Any other measure (drug bust numbers, etc. are only a rough and possibly misleading measure, if the GOAL is to reduce drug USE and ABUSE by Americans, which it is). But before I talk out of my nether regions, whose got some credible stats on nationwide drug use/abuse rates, including alcohol?
And even if we are "winning" by this measure, that's still not the whole story. Everything's a tradeoff, so we have to look at what COST have we incurred to "win"? Cost in terms not only of money/taxes, but more importantly in lost civil rights (1A, 2A, 4A, 5A, 10A, etc)? I submit that, at least under the way this "war" has been run so far, the benefits, even if we are winning, do not come anywhere CLOSE to the cost of lost civil rights, not to mention the injustices of federal 3-strikers who are serving 25-life for just being junkies or the neighborhood pot man, or the high cost of prison facilities to incarcerate all the junkies.
If we really wanted to win (as opposed to just justify LEOA budgets and give the sheeple something to spur them to the polls to continue to aggrandize Repukelican political power), then it would be quite simple. Take all of the alphabet soup federal LEOAs involved in said "war", excise the anti-drug divisions from all of them, then combine all into ONE anti-drug agency. Then, take the combined budgets of said divisions, and SLASH IT by about 2/3rds, leaving them 1/3 of what they used to have to conduct this "war". Then, give about 1/2 of the saved money back to the people in the form of a tax cut, and spend the other half on treatment facilities and educating our young people of the dangers of drugs and voila, you'll have less people overall doing drugs, far more civil rights, and more money in your pocket. It's been proven that interdiction money is nearly a complete waste, with virtuall no impact on drug availability or drug use (that's flying in and doing raids in Columbia etc.). There is a significantly better return on border prevention LEOA money spent, but still relatively quite poor. Whereas drug treatment facility dollars have been shown to have a far far higher return on investment than ANY type of measure involving drug crime enforcemnt. Dollar for dollar, it reduces drug use more than anything an LEOA is capable of doing. That IS the goal, isn't it? To reduce drug USE?
Well, I think the answer is pretty clearly is nationwide drug USE rates over time by people, INCLUDING the substitue alcohol, which is equally devastating. I don't know the answer, but I believe that we're losing it (quite predictably). Any other measure (drug bust numbers, etc. are only a rough and possibly misleading measure, if the GOAL is to reduce drug USE and ABUSE by Americans, which it is). But before I talk out of my nether regions, whose got some credible stats on nationwide drug use/abuse rates, including alcohol?
And even if we are "winning" by this measure, that's still not the whole story. Everything's a tradeoff, so we have to look at what COST have we incurred to "win"? Cost in terms not only of money/taxes, but more importantly in lost civil rights (1A, 2A, 4A, 5A, 10A, etc)? I submit that, at least under the way this "war" has been run so far, the benefits, even if we are winning, do not come anywhere CLOSE to the cost of lost civil rights, not to mention the injustices of federal 3-strikers who are serving 25-life for just being junkies or the neighborhood pot man, or the high cost of prison facilities to incarcerate all the junkies.
If we really wanted to win (as opposed to just justify LEOA budgets and give the sheeple something to spur them to the polls to continue to aggrandize Repukelican political power), then it would be quite simple. Take all of the alphabet soup federal LEOAs involved in said "war", excise the anti-drug divisions from all of them, then combine all into ONE anti-drug agency. Then, take the combined budgets of said divisions, and SLASH IT by about 2/3rds, leaving them 1/3 of what they used to have to conduct this "war". Then, give about 1/2 of the saved money back to the people in the form of a tax cut, and spend the other half on treatment facilities and educating our young people of the dangers of drugs and voila, you'll have less people overall doing drugs, far more civil rights, and more money in your pocket. It's been proven that interdiction money is nearly a complete waste, with virtuall no impact on drug availability or drug use (that's flying in and doing raids in Columbia etc.). There is a significantly better return on border prevention LEOA money spent, but still relatively quite poor. Whereas drug treatment facility dollars have been shown to have a far far higher return on investment than ANY type of measure involving drug crime enforcemnt. Dollar for dollar, it reduces drug use more than anything an LEOA is capable of doing. That IS the goal, isn't it? To reduce drug USE?
i believe the success of the war on drugs can be quantified by the amount of money spent waging the war. if the war is successful, less money should be required.
i have no stats, but i would find it hard to believe that budget allocations for the war on drugs have decreased since it's inception.
i have no stats, but i would find it hard to believe that budget allocations for the war on drugs have decreased since it's inception.
snacktrack
New member
80% of seizures result in no charges...
Does this tell you why the war on drugs still wages on? Police have incentives to seize assests from suspects. They project their budgets including what they plan on seizing. If 80% of seizures result in no charges being brought, they you tell me what the priorites of law enforcement is?
This actually happened to a friend of mine, he was dealing drugs. Making lots of money. They seized all his cars, motorcycle, money. And no charges...didnt get his stuff back. Lucky for him, lucky for law enforcement.
This practice makes law enforcement as low as the people they steal from. No offense to you LEO out there. But its the policy that needs to change.
Does this tell you why the war on drugs still wages on? Police have incentives to seize assests from suspects. They project their budgets including what they plan on seizing. If 80% of seizures result in no charges being brought, they you tell me what the priorites of law enforcement is?
This actually happened to a friend of mine, he was dealing drugs. Making lots of money. They seized all his cars, motorcycle, money. And no charges...didnt get his stuff back. Lucky for him, lucky for law enforcement.
This practice makes law enforcement as low as the people they steal from. No offense to you LEO out there. But its the policy that needs to change.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Police: Man Kills Mother After She Flushes Marijuana Down Toilet
MISSION, Texas -- Authorities say a Rio Grande Valley man accused of killing his mother apparently was upset because she flushed his marijuana down the toilet.
Nicholas Jack Kenison, 24, of Mission, is charged with murder in the weekend slaying of 50-year-old Gloria Abelina Kenison in the home they shared. Bond for Nicholas Kenison is set at $500,000.
Hidalgo County sheriff's deputies said Kenison is accused of beating his mother with a crowbar, then putting a trash bag over her head.
Sheriff Lupe Trevino said Kenison allegedly attacked the woman because she destroyed his stash of drugs.
The victim's body was discovered Sunday by a neighbor and Nicholas Kenison was later arrested.
article
MISSION, Texas -- Authorities say a Rio Grande Valley man accused of killing his mother apparently was upset because she flushed his marijuana down the toilet.
Nicholas Jack Kenison, 24, of Mission, is charged with murder in the weekend slaying of 50-year-old Gloria Abelina Kenison in the home they shared. Bond for Nicholas Kenison is set at $500,000.
Hidalgo County sheriff's deputies said Kenison is accused of beating his mother with a crowbar, then putting a trash bag over her head.
Sheriff Lupe Trevino said Kenison allegedly attacked the woman because she destroyed his stash of drugs.
The victim's body was discovered Sunday by a neighbor and Nicholas Kenison was later arrested.
article
PsychoSword
Moderator
TBO, people have been killed for stranger things. No story you could post will justify the WosD's.
TheeBadOne
Moderator
Mom arrested for bringing son medicine at school
Mom Accused Of Delivering Heroin To Son At School
A mother was arrested at a Ferndale school for allegedly delivering a syringe full of heroin to her son.
Sheila Black, 41, of Metamora, was arrested in the parking lot of Ferndale High School on Pinecrest Street Tuesday during the school's lunch hour, according to a report in The Daily Tribune. Police said they set up surveillance of Black after they received a tip that she was planning to give the heroin to her son.
"She took one of the packs of heroin and cooked it up in a spoon and drew the liquid into a syringe so he could take it into a bathroom at school and shoot it up," said Ferndale police Detective George Hartley in the paper's report.
The teen, whose age was not available, lives with his father in Ferndale, the paper reported. Black has been remarried and there is a court order from Lapeer County barring her from having contact with her son, according to police.
Officers were able to arrest Black in front of the school before she was able to give the drugs to her son because she was in violation of the court order, the paper reported.
Hartley said officers searched Black's Ford pickup truck and found a cosmetic bag with 10 packs of heroin and a loaded syringe.
Black told police she talked to her son over the weekend and agreed to obtain heroin after he threatened to harm himself if he did not get the drugs, the paper reported.
Hartley said the son told his mother to drive to Detroit to purchase the heroin, and she complied.
Black was charged Wednesday with possession of less than 50 grams of heroin with intent to deliver, the paper reported. A $5,000 cash bond was issued during the arraignment.
A pretrial report says Black has mental health and substance abuse problems and should be counseled while awaiting the trial, the paper reported. Police said Black has no criminal record.
Black is scheduled for a preliminary hearing on Feb. 10.
article
Mom Accused Of Delivering Heroin To Son At School
A mother was arrested at a Ferndale school for allegedly delivering a syringe full of heroin to her son.
Sheila Black, 41, of Metamora, was arrested in the parking lot of Ferndale High School on Pinecrest Street Tuesday during the school's lunch hour, according to a report in The Daily Tribune. Police said they set up surveillance of Black after they received a tip that she was planning to give the heroin to her son.
"She took one of the packs of heroin and cooked it up in a spoon and drew the liquid into a syringe so he could take it into a bathroom at school and shoot it up," said Ferndale police Detective George Hartley in the paper's report.
The teen, whose age was not available, lives with his father in Ferndale, the paper reported. Black has been remarried and there is a court order from Lapeer County barring her from having contact with her son, according to police.
Officers were able to arrest Black in front of the school before she was able to give the drugs to her son because she was in violation of the court order, the paper reported.
Hartley said officers searched Black's Ford pickup truck and found a cosmetic bag with 10 packs of heroin and a loaded syringe.
Black told police she talked to her son over the weekend and agreed to obtain heroin after he threatened to harm himself if he did not get the drugs, the paper reported.
Hartley said the son told his mother to drive to Detroit to purchase the heroin, and she complied.
Black was charged Wednesday with possession of less than 50 grams of heroin with intent to deliver, the paper reported. A $5,000 cash bond was issued during the arraignment.
A pretrial report says Black has mental health and substance abuse problems and should be counseled while awaiting the trial, the paper reported. Police said Black has no criminal record.
Black is scheduled for a preliminary hearing on Feb. 10.
article
zappadragon
New member
Prohibition wasn't a success story either!
Handy said it!
Handy said it!
How do we measure success, if any against substance abuse?
Price and availability? Plentiful and cheaper than ever for the hardest drugs.
Limited impact in society? Permeates all facets of society including overprescription of prozac, Ritalin and whatever to our most vulnerable youth, steroids to our pro athletes, anti anxiety and painkilling drugs to our stressed and damaged celebrities and commentators, a taxpayer funded right to Viagra (but only for medicinal use, certainly not for pleasure
) nonstop ads for Levitra and Cialis (someone is makin' money on it I guess), liquor and tobacco sold at every shopping center and strip mall, jails and prisons full of users and abusers, HBD and Etoh involved calls for all kinds of societal dysfunction.
The only measure of success I could imagine would be people not wanting to seek pleasure/success/escape thru the use of a substance. Anyone got good stats on that?
Price and availability? Plentiful and cheaper than ever for the hardest drugs.
Limited impact in society? Permeates all facets of society including overprescription of prozac, Ritalin and whatever to our most vulnerable youth, steroids to our pro athletes, anti anxiety and painkilling drugs to our stressed and damaged celebrities and commentators, a taxpayer funded right to Viagra (but only for medicinal use, certainly not for pleasure
) nonstop ads for Levitra and Cialis (someone is makin' money on it I guess), liquor and tobacco sold at every shopping center and strip mall, jails and prisons full of users and abusers, HBD and Etoh involved calls for all kinds of societal dysfunction.The only measure of success I could imagine would be people not wanting to seek pleasure/success/escape thru the use of a substance. Anyone got good stats on that?
snacktrack
New member
I watch alot of nature shows and documentaries on Discovery Channel. I came across ths one documentary which studied human addictions. It was fascinating. There is a certain type of monkey that lives in the Carribean on one of the heavily touristed islands, I cant remember which one it is. Well anyway, these monkeys come from the trees next to the beach and steal people's alcoholic drinks. They did a study on these monkeys which is quite revealing.
There were monkeys who stole the tourists drinks and drank until they passed out.
Then there were some monkeys who drank just a moderate level.
Then there were some who drank occasionally.
And there were some monkeys that didnt want any part of the drinking of alcoholic drinks.
What they found was, the percentage of the monkeys who drank themselves into oblivion, was equal to that of the alcoholic population of humans.
Also the same was the percentage of abstinent monkey drinkers to sober humans, as well as the moderate categories.
Addiction is a predisposal in some unlucky humans, and this study shows that its something that runs very deep. Do I think this study is perfect? No of course not, but its very enlightening indeed. It shows that addiction is a human statistic that will ALWAYS be there. I think Cal4D4's post illustrates this perfectly.
The term "drunken monkey" comes from these monkeys BTW.
There were monkeys who stole the tourists drinks and drank until they passed out.
Then there were some monkeys who drank just a moderate level.
Then there were some who drank occasionally.
And there were some monkeys that didnt want any part of the drinking of alcoholic drinks.
What they found was, the percentage of the monkeys who drank themselves into oblivion, was equal to that of the alcoholic population of humans.
Also the same was the percentage of abstinent monkey drinkers to sober humans, as well as the moderate categories.
Addiction is a predisposal in some unlucky humans, and this study shows that its something that runs very deep. Do I think this study is perfect? No of course not, but its very enlightening indeed. It shows that addiction is a human statistic that will ALWAYS be there. I think Cal4D4's post illustrates this perfectly.
The term "drunken monkey" comes from these monkeys BTW.
Vanguard.45
New member
It's called DARWIN, people!
Somehow, laws have become the written babysitter for the obstinately stupid. If a person doesn't want to wear a seatbelt, wear a helmet on a motorcycle, eat healthy foods (becoming the #1 killer in our society), get a job, or abstain from drinking, smoking, or shooting up, then they are entitled to the consequences of their actions. TO PREVENT THE STUPID FROM DOING STUPID THINGS ONLY ALLOWS THEM TO LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO PROCREATE AND MAKE MORE STUPID KIDS THAT GROW UP TO BE STUPID ADULTS!
Darwin had it right. The fittest will survive and thrive. You want to use drugs??? I say, go ahead. That's just more money for me, since you'll be too hopped up on weed, speed, or whatever else to get the job I'm also interviewing for! Life is a competition. You have a right to be a loser in this country! Not everyone can be a winner! Say YES to drugs!
Yes, there will be consequences to society, but I bet they would be no worse than the consequences we now face from alcohol, smoking, fast-food, or just blatant stupidity. Think about it, if cocaine were made legal today, would you start using it regularly? Most SANE people I don't believe would make that choice. And if they did, they should be free to ruin their life. That's their choice, and that leaves more of the pie for those of us making the right decisions.
Vanguard.45,
the one eyed man
Somehow, laws have become the written babysitter for the obstinately stupid. If a person doesn't want to wear a seatbelt, wear a helmet on a motorcycle, eat healthy foods (becoming the #1 killer in our society), get a job, or abstain from drinking, smoking, or shooting up, then they are entitled to the consequences of their actions. TO PREVENT THE STUPID FROM DOING STUPID THINGS ONLY ALLOWS THEM TO LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO PROCREATE AND MAKE MORE STUPID KIDS THAT GROW UP TO BE STUPID ADULTS!
Darwin had it right. The fittest will survive and thrive. You want to use drugs??? I say, go ahead. That's just more money for me, since you'll be too hopped up on weed, speed, or whatever else to get the job I'm also interviewing for! Life is a competition. You have a right to be a loser in this country! Not everyone can be a winner! Say YES to drugs!
Yes, there will be consequences to society, but I bet they would be no worse than the consequences we now face from alcohol, smoking, fast-food, or just blatant stupidity. Think about it, if cocaine were made legal today, would you start using it regularly? Most SANE people I don't believe would make that choice. And if they did, they should be free to ruin their life. That's their choice, and that leaves more of the pie for those of us making the right decisions.
Vanguard.45,
the one eyed man
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Absolutely, amen, Vanguard!
TBO, I'm sorry, but if your posts purport to have a POINT, then I missed it. Arguing by way of anecdote rather than aggregrate stats (the big picture) is a sure sign of a losing argument. Addiction is bad; of course it is. That's the whole point - the war on some drugs hasn't REDUCED addiction rates. The present strategy is a COMPLETE dismal failure, to that end, which is after all, the goal, correct? Treatment facilities have proven to reduce addition rates. So if we spent a fraction of what we do on treatment facilities, as on law enforcement, and legalize pot of course, then we'd have: (a) LESS overall addition, AND (b) MORE civil rights, AND (c) LESS of a tax bill to pay for the federal and state LEOA alphabet soup.
TBO, I'm sorry, but if your posts purport to have a POINT, then I missed it. Arguing by way of anecdote rather than aggregrate stats (the big picture) is a sure sign of a losing argument. Addiction is bad; of course it is. That's the whole point - the war on some drugs hasn't REDUCED addiction rates. The present strategy is a COMPLETE dismal failure, to that end, which is after all, the goal, correct? Treatment facilities have proven to reduce addition rates. So if we spent a fraction of what we do on treatment facilities, as on law enforcement, and legalize pot of course, then we'd have: (a) LESS overall addition, AND (b) MORE civil rights, AND (c) LESS of a tax bill to pay for the federal and state LEOA alphabet soup.
snacktrack
New member
I couldnt agree with you more Vanguard. Most drug users will tell you they dont care that its illegal. The only things that makes them want to quit is losing everything, family, job, house, etc..not being arrested or jailed.
Legalizing drugs would eliminate SOO much violence. Those that dont use now, wouldnt use because it was all the sudden legalized as Vanguard stated.
Legalizing drugs would eliminate SOO much violence. Those that dont use now, wouldnt use because it was all the sudden legalized as Vanguard stated.