How do we measure winning the war on drugs?.......

Are we winning the war on drugs?

  • America wins all wars!

    Votes: 3 3.8%

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 2.6%

  • no

    Votes: 41 52.6%

  • there can be no winner

    Votes: 32 41.0%
  • Total voters
    78
T

too many choices!?

New member
Wait a better question how do you wage war on on inanimate object....who thinks it is time to call a stop to the farce of the war on drugs? I am not saying to simply allow all Americans access to now illegal drugs but the system has major flawed logic.....Cigerettes known to kill ........government response smoke all you want just pay us first....Alcohol abuse causes 1000's of deaths a year......government response drink till you have liver disease just don't do it while driving and pay us first......We need to evaluate the cost benefit of the war on drugs and find a more effective way to waiste our money.......maybe border patrols to keep the stuff out of the country and or stiffer penalties for repeat offenders/ lealize and tax anything not shown to be more harmful/impairing than alcohol or cigerettes.


PS what are some better opitions as our current model is sorely lacking?
 
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I measure the victory in the War on Drugs everyday.

Every time I take a pound of Weed off the street, I win a battle.

Every time I catch some tweaker stealing a bit of NH3, I win a battle.

Every time I catch a scroat with an eight ball, I win a battle.




I hear about the fact that we are "losing the war", but I dont see it. In my little world, my personal microcosm, the war is being won. Drug arrests are down. Drug related crimes are down. The drug element is leaving town. Seems like we are winning here.


The war wont be won in some huge bust on an interstate, it will be won in countless small hometowns across the nation. It will never be won in places where drug use is accpeted, but will be won in places whos populace has decided they dont want this junk on their streets, in their kids.

Im sorry, guys, but I see the fruits of my labor everyday.
 
with all due respect Lilysdad.....

I respect the job you do and thankyou for it but in the same breath must say that the peson selling may get out and go right back to the same habit of selling or smoking or shooting up or whatever it is they do. If the system is ineffective and could be made better we need a new system.....

As I have said no one really wines :) about alcohol anymore it has become an accepted part of society. Logic dictates that anything that is no more harmful or addictive should be allowed. To do otherwise is simply not logical.... :confused:

Now as to the "hard" stuff which I mean to be anything that is a narcotic or amphetemine(sp?), heroine,hallucinogens,pcp, and the like these should all remain highly illegal....
The legal system should reflect the disdain that society looks upon the illegal use of said....ie Mandatory sentences for selling with HARD labor that pays for your own way in prison or don't eat.... mandatory treatment in a jail for repeat possesion or using(with labor to pay for your stay)........

I simply have seen the revolving door swing around too many times and can see that it really doesn't stop.... :(
 
Im sorry, but I do not side with the defeatists who say " It will never stop, so why fight it".

Tyranny in some form or another will never stop...so why fight it?

Child abuse, has been going on forever, and it will never stop, so why try to make it do so?

Rape, another age old crime....will never cease, so why not legalize it?
 
Lily,

Are you saying the amount of drugs being brought or grown into the US is down?


As to your last post, there is more than one way to fight something - sometimes guns and handcuffs are the wrong way.

You mentioned tyranny. We fought the tyranny of Monarchy by creating a set of laws that make it nearly impossible for any person or small group to take power. The French attempted the same thing with a violent revolution that killed anyone associated with power. Ultimately, all they got out of it was Napoleon.


I don't think anyone thinks we should "give up". But maybe using your precious work time to detect and confiscate small bags of herbs is a waste of resources. Prohibition wasn't a success story either. We "beat" the mob when Prohibition ended, and organized crime lost its business. Suddenly there was no violence associated with alcohol.

The government taking control of a wide spread activity NO government has ever been able to stop is just smart.
 
The most common deadly accidents involved motor vehicles, falls and poisoning, claiming 72 percent of all accidental deaths (101,537 US residents). According to the National Safety council. Feb 05 issue of America's 1st Freedom, page 17.

They don't list alcohol or tobacco because those deaths are NOT accidental. How about outlawing automobiles? IF you will notice, it's the number one killer of people ACCIDENTALLY.

No offense, but WE HAVE LOST this war a long time ago. The same as we lost the battle for prohibiting alcohol.

Are you suggesting we should outlaw alcohol (again) and tobacco? They are far more deadly that all the drugs taken illegally combined. Notice I said all the drugs, including those abused by people who don't (or do) have a legal prescription. Rush Limbaugh comes to mind,

Please don't respond with "I'm enforcing the laws as written" because that line is the same one as "I vas just follink orders". It didn't fly for them and won't fly for all LE from a HISTORICAL viewpoint.

IF the liberals seize control of this country and decide that drugs are OK but firearms are not, will you enforce that law and attempt to disarm the American public? After all, firearms are made for one purpose. TO KILL THINGS. Just curious.

I have addressed the FINANCIAL side of this equation here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155968

Please respond.

Wouldn't you RATHER be out chasing the real bad guys? You know, violent offenders. Rape, child abuse, murder, terrorism, etc? People who do REAL EVIL in this world?

Just curious.

One final observation. You know that large place where you send all those poor souls that you arrest and somebody convicts? The place where they are kept under lock and key until they have done their time? LE can't even keep drugs out of there.

So please tell me HOW you are winning this again.
 
I am so glad someone posted this poll. And "too many choices" comment about how do we wage a war on inanimate objects is right on the money! You wage wars on people not on drugs. Its the peoples addictions that are the problem, not the drugs. If you took away the addiction, what power would drugs have?

This is a subject that I am vehemently passionate about. Not only are we losing the war on drugs, we are destroying our own people and neighborhoods. WIth all due respect liliysdad, how is it a victory when you take a 15 year old kid off the street and put him in lockup, when another 15 year steps right up in his place to make a few thousand a week?

The Rockefeller laws have guaranteed that teenagers will be used as disposable salesmen in the unstopable illegal drug trade. Why is that? Because the laws state anyone who is not a minor who sells within close range to a school, gets a ridiculously long mandatory min sentence. How do you get around that? Recruit kids to sell the drugs for you. ANd let me tell you, there is no shortage of kids wanting to be just like their rap heroes in their expensive cars. These heroes are their brothers, cousins, they garner extreme respect in their neighborhoods.

I am reading 3 books right now on the subject, the best one is writtne by California drug court judge called, " Why our drug laws have failed and Wha we can do about it", The one thing I read in this book that stands out is an experiement that 2 Narcotics units did in 2 cities, Portland and San Diego. In Portland, over several years they did extensive surveillence and identified all 75 street dealers in the city. They arrested ALL 75 dealers at the same exact time with a massive sting operation. All 75 were arrested and in jail. Within 14 days, all of these drug dealers posts were replaced with new recruits! The same exact thing happened in San Diego. How is that winning??


Another booked called " THe Cocaine Kids" which is a documentary following a teenage group of drug dealers over the period of 5 years in which the head of the group is 14 years old! THe other book I read is called" Drug Crazy : How We Got into This Mess and How We Can Get Out"

I would recommend the first one if you had to pick, but they are all good. THe one point I wanted to get across is look at history. Did you guys know, cocaine and heroin were prescribed to addicts by doctors and dispensed by Pharmacies in the early part of this century? Until the religious influence in the 1930's all drugs were legal. WHen prohibition was delclared, a MASSIVE crime wave insued, and gave birth to the biggest gangsters of all time. Before prohibition, buying a beer was just like it is today. A brewery which employs thousands of workers makes it, distributes it in trucks which employs truck drivers, and then people drink it in a pub or buy it in a liqour store which CARDS and enforces state law on purchasers and they enjoy at home. Ask any school kid whats easier to get, alcohol or weed? Everyone of them will say weed.

Anyway, you take the responsibilty of making beer in the hands of responsible people who make sure their product is consistent, safe from poisons, clean, and make it illegal and now the responsibility is now is the hands of muderers, and criminals who will stop at nothing to satisfy the addiction to beer. Which now, is hard liquor because its too bulky to illegally transport huge tankers of beer. So you have to pack as much punch in a small package as you can. We did do something smart though, when we realized we had made a disaterous mistake, we repealed prohibition!!

Now, how is alcohol and drugs any different? People are going to do them regardless. Putting people in jail doesnt do anything to curb drug addiction. 60% of prisoners are non violent drug offenders. It costs over 120, 000 dollars to keep 2 children in a group home for one year when a mother is arrested for drug trafficing, on top of her cost of prison expenses. For what?

Legalize drugs and make them available through pharmacies, and every drug dealer will disappear overnight. Use the money through selling these drugs legally to fund their own recovery. The cost of drugs is ridiculously inflated, it costs nothing to grow and process weed and cocaine. Those higher costs make people into prostitutes robbers, and violent people to get the money to get that high.

Anyway, I am glad to see others which open minds in a gun forum, that is a pleasant suprise for me. I welcome debate to my post. But please backup your claims with evidence.
 
The problem is

Many of the U.S. governments positions on drugs are based on lies and misinformation,sound familar? You can buy many drugs over the internet now including marijuana and many schedule II pain relievers and have them delivered to your door. And the reason drug arrests are down is because drugs are easier to get and people are doing them at home.
 
We will win "the war on drugs" when we wake up one morning in full control of our destinies and in no need of Escape.
 
I would put my money on "losing the war on drugs". I know the small dent put in by cops on a daily basis continues the fight, but I believe it can't be won. To counter those many small dents, I can recall interdictions of loads of 150 lbs or more of marijuana, kilo of coke in cereal boxes, in tires, backpacks, trains, planes, and cars, etc. Tho admirable, those small arrests mean nothing, you simply shift it into the next block, city, county, etc. And it's still there anyways, you just ain't looking in the nice neighborhoods, their backyard parties, high school parties, professional gatherings, etc. It's everywhere. I once thought we were making a difference, but in retrospect, I think I was merely insulated from that fact due to my line of work, associates, family. By that I mean, in my little world, no one did drugs. But I've since awakened just a bit. I think the only way to even get a grasp of it is to legalize some drugs to an extent. I ain't got the answers, but this present war on drugs cannot be "won".
 
I once thought we were making a difference, but in retrospect, I think I was merely insulated from that fact due to my line of work, associates, family. By that I mean, in my little world, no one did drugs. But I've since awakened just a bit. I think the only way to even get a grasp of it is to legalize some drugs to an extent. I ain't got the answers, but this present war on drugs cannot be "won".
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Amen, Mr Bill. humbly said.

Are there any narcotics officers here on the board? Maybe you can provide some insight?
 
Lilysdad i can see this is a hot button for u.....

but no where do I say we should just give up the fight. What I did attempt to say is if this so called war on drugs could be fought more effectively then why not change it? Legalizing rape and legalizing soft drug use should not even be in the same sentence together....Maybe legalizing prostitution but that would be another thread(another victimless crime)......However much the thought of legalizing some drugs that are no more harmful than alcohol throws peoples moral compass into a tailspin, we all see the current method not yielding any measurable results....As I have done in the past i like to compare this to the now debunked assault weapons ban. If it is only an act in futility to show this is the position we believe to be morally right, then we haven't a leg to stand on as drugs are pushed onto us by the government everyday.....Believe it or not but the government wants us addicted to drugs that it can tax and make more money off of it but keeps some illegal so crime stays high.....


PS if you don't belive me about the gov. wanting us all addicted just look at the tv and see all the adds they approve for any and everything from zoloft to enzyte(DR fraud OH you are depressed because of your small package? Hmmm, take them both!:)) they have what you need ....I would be very surprised at how many people in here over age 35 are not on some prescription for something......Makes you wonder :confused:
 
There cannot be a war on drugs, that is just a catchy name. There can only be wars against people. The war on drugs is really a war on people. It is being held in the USA, and American civilians are being casulties.
 
Jack Herrer is also the name of one the world's most potents strains of marijuana that is grown in the Neatherlands.
 
>OK, folks, here is a website that offers a challenge. If you can prove Jack Herer wrong, he will pay you $100,000! He's made this offer since the mid-70's. No one has taken this money yet!

That dude has been smoking too much for too long.
 
Wouldn't you RATHER be out chasing the real bad guys? You know, violent offenders. Rape, child abuse, murder, terrorism, etc? People who do REAL EVIL in this world?
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I can link at least 85% of the "real criminals" I catch to drug use in some way, shape or form. I am catching the real badguys.

Plaese let me say this. I have no probelms fighting this war on more fronts than we are now. The most effective defense is a good offense, as has been said time and time again. We need to educate the youth about the dangers and pitfalls of drugs, legal and non-legal. Alcohol, weed, crank, tobacco, all of it.

I do see a discrepancy between the war on drugs, and the apparent acceptance of alcohol. I dont drink, so its a moot point to me. To be brutally honest, I dont think Id have a terrible issue with the legalization of marijuana, as long as it is treated as alcohol, and to be consumed only in a private place. As long as it carried the same, or stricter, penalties for public intoxication, distribution through illegal chanles, and driving while under the influence, I see no real harm.

I will say that seldom do I apprehend a marijuana smoker who doesnt at least dabble in something more horrendous. Meth comes to mind most frequently for white folks, Crack for balck individuals.

In conclusion, if you can find a truly better way to fight the war, by all means, lets get it done. Until that time, Im the one in the trenches, and I have to play by the rulebook set before me. All in all, its not a terrible rulebook, just needs a good coach to tweak it.
 
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