How about secession?

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I must have missed it...who is talking about re-instating slavery?
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It's an analogy. Talking about slavery is free speech, but when you start instituting laws for it, then it's not speech anymore.

Same with the right to keep and bear arms. Legislators and judges have gone well past talking about infringing our rights.
 
I'm still waiting for all the hardcore Blue-staters to flee to Canada like they threatened to after Bush was re-elected. No secession needed. We get the United Red-States of America, and they get their gun-free socialist Canadian utopia, eh?
 
How is Canada gun free?

There is about 30 million people in Canada, with about 7.5 million guns...
 
Sorry. Relatively gun free. I stand corrected. Frankly, I'm no expert on Canadian gun laws, but they're much more restrictive than in the US, right?

At any rate, gun free or not, they can still go. I'm tired of waiting for California to slide off into the Pacific & take a big bite o' blue off the Left coast.
 
tyme, with all due respect, I believe that you missed my point. I was not calling anybody a rebel or secessionist as such, but merely responding to the question as posed, which seemed to argue for secession with gun ownership as its primarily motivation. Am i incorrect in this?

I don't believe that debate about the 2nd Amendment should be framed in the language of rebellion and treason. That, if anything, is counterproductive.

I stand by my point, though: it seems that a great many are quick to defend the 2nd Amendment, but not so quick to defend the 1st Amendment when it is threatened. Of course, if you reject virtually all American policy and legislative history since 1930, then I guess you don't feel that the 1st Amendment is being threatened.

I don't pretend to be a Constitutional scholar, nor do I play one on the internet, but it seems that some people frequently defend their perception of the law rather than the law itself.
 
then I guess you don't feel that the 1st Amendment is being threatened.
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The left is always so concerned about the 1st amendment, yet they're the ones attacking it the most. On any college campus, the left has stifled just about all free speech. Sure, you can burn the American flag, but just try to fly the confederate flag - you'll be expelled. Conservative speakers are harrassed and assaulted, if they're allowed to talk at all, while lieing dishonest crooks like Ward Churchill are given ticker-tape parades.

Yet for all this hand-wringing about how the evil "right-wing" are attacking the 1st amendment, they're awefully short on actual examples of it.
 
Secession?

traitors to the USA and stealing land from the USA
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It's a very silly concept.
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Okay, somebody needs to educate me.

As far as I can tell from reading, our country was created as a voluntary association of free states. I do not find it silly to believe that a relationship that is voluntarily created could not be voluntarily dissolved.

I have not found any legal citation that secession is illegal. Prior to the Civil War, it was generally accepted that sovereign states could freely enter or exit the US. Indeed, the New England states were most vocal in threatening secession.

The Civil War did clearly demonstrate that brute force, applied outside the bounds of existing law, could prevent sovereign states from leaving the Union. However, I don't see that as creating a legal position.
 
The chances of secession are about nil we have a hard time deciding is we should have daylight saving time or not how are you going to get a fair amount of the states to agree to secede.And who is going to be the first one to take the chance and stand up to the federal goverment.Plus it would leave the usa wide open to our common enemies to attack. If not right then they would just wait till we reduced our effective strength and come right on in. Most likely china or north korea. If the war that started over the secession was as bad as the first one you can bet the wolves would be attacking.
 
"Each State, in ratifying the Constitution, is considered as a sovereign body,
independent of all the others, and only to be bound by its own voluntary act."
-- Federalist Paper #39
 
"From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I am one of those who sees the 2nd amendmant as a doomsday clause. If the government becomes so tyranical that they freely step on constitutional rights, elections are banned, the senate is locked out, etc; that the armed populace must step forward for their rights. We are already at a serious disadvantage considering the military has all the fun class 3 stuff, tanks and warplanes.
 
I have not found any legal citation that secession is illegal. Prior to the Civil War, it was generally accepted that sovereign states could freely enter or exit the US. Indeed, the New England states were most vocal in threatening secession.
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The problem is that you won't get any state to suceed. The consitution also makes it illegal to sieze land that is within a state, adjacent to a state, of bordering on any state, in order to create a new state.
 
Sure, you can burn the American flag, but just try to fly the confederate flag - you'll be expelled.
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That's because the American flag is a duly authorized symbol of the United States. Burning it is a symbol of expressing dissatisfaction with the govt of the U.S. As such, that is protected speech under the 1a.

The confederate flag is neither authorized by, nor a symbol of, this country. In fact, one could consider the confederate flag to be anti-american since it is the flag of a "foreign" power which went to war against the lawful gov't of the USA. Flying it would be unpatriotic and (if push comes to shove) an expression of treason against the U.S. government.
 
A lot of folks in my region seem to think that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of their Country, myself included. And it was the US that attacked the lawful government of the CSA, not the other way around.
 
Rob P., +1 with many zeroes behind it. :)

Hugh Damright, if a lot of folks in your region think that, than a lot of folks in your region are wrong. The Confederacy was nothing but a bunch of traitors. I can't believe that a rational person in 2005 would even subscribe to such nonsense. "Lawful government of the CSA ..." give me a break. :barf:

I ignored Rebar's comment because it was off-topic, but this is too much. I have no patience for worshippers of Confederate ghosts, just as I have no patience for Nazi fetishists.
 
A lot of folks in my region seem to think that the Confederate Flag is a symbol of their Country
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Sorry to inform you but this country is the United States of America... NOT the Confederate States of America.

That means that if you live here, "your country" is the USA and flying the flag of a different country (the CSA) and claiming it to be "yours" is a rejection of the USA and the gov't thereof. It can also be argued that it is a proclamation that the legitimate govt of the USA should be removed & replaced by the gov't of a different nation (the CSA). Proclaiming an intent to overthrow and replace the legit gov't with another gov't is called treason. At the very least, it is certainly a statement that your allegence is NOT to the gov't of the USA and that you reject your citizenship of this country (see: "The man without a Country" for more info on this).

The civil war as fought over the issue of States Rights. Since the North won, the issue was decided that individual States don't have individual rights. Especially the right to seceed from the union. It doesn't matter what the constitution says, there are NO individual States' Rights anymore. We are "one nation" and not a collection of individual states.
 
Hugh Damright, actually they were, and I couldn't care less if you find my comment foolish, ignorant, or insulting. Your advocacy of secession and the CSA is foolish, ignorant, and insulting. :mad:

Make a point if you have one, but crying boo-hoo because I don't have any respect for traitors isn't one of them.
 
i fly a rebel flag and the nra flag on my house. my truck sports a rebel license plate and the rear window has nra and harley stickers.

i do not chew tobacco or have tatoos and i am educated. the last three iq tests i took scored 142, 123 and 134. the last one was taken at the university of memphis during a vocational appitude test for rehabilitation purposes since i was disabled while serving the USA.

i realize i am in america and i served my country both in the air force and the doj. yet i still have an affection for the csa and i am not ashamed in any way. it is not my intent to suceed or wish we had slavery. just pride for my fellow southerners who fought for what they felt was right.

sure i can't spell and my grammer sucks. i'm just plain lazy. somehow i live with it.:)
 
It doesn't matter what the constitution says, there are NO individual States' Rights anymore.
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I reckon it does matter what the Constitution says. At least it matters to me.

And of course there are States' rights. Ignorance of federalism does not make it go away. An example of a States' right is CCW. Face reality!
 
Well, Leif, I guess my point is that, to me and my region, it is you and your region, your heritage, your culture, and your ancestors that are the traitors. I wouldn't have brought it up, but turnabout is fair play.
 
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