And now you are basically comparing people in California to Locusts. That's really intelligent. What about the constant influx of people that come to California from other states. You act as if California is an endless battery of persons that are intent on ruining the economy of YOUR states. How mindless are you. Truely spoken from ignorance. Do you realize that the cost of living is driven to strenuous extents by those that come to this state and not leave? C'mon! Think a little people. And with regards to immigration issues, look at states like Florida. And has anyone ever lived in Atlanta, New York, El Paso, and an endless number of other cities? Don't act like California is the only place that this happens. How hateful of people are you?
Home Defense, what do you think? (deceiving title)
- Thread starter relientk1988
- Start date
FrankDrebin
Moderator
I am not! (Locusts aren't as insidious)
I recommend that you go back to grade 3 and try to repair what little education you seem to convey with your statements. I am very passionate about right of free speech, but you are doing yourself very little service FrankDrebin. Reminds me of some of the Rednecks that I used to go to school with that were proud of the idiocy that they would spout from their mouths. You are a fine example of someone that should own a tool of lethal force. Really, I mean that ) Oh and Frank, "Git 'r' Dun!"
Scott Evans
Staff Alumnus
Here in home-town Jacksonville, NC an “All American City” award winner :
A former employee of mine was driving home a few years ago late one night on US Hwy 17 from Topsail Island back to his home in Jacksonville. However, his car broke down on a lonely stretch of that highway and he elected to walk the 3 miles to the nearest gas station. A pickup truck pulled over as he was walking. He assumed they were there to help; however, they beat him with a baseball bat instead.
He was not armed and there was no place to run. He is OK … now.
I became rather good casual friends with a fellow who worked in one of our local gun shops. About 5 years ago his son, who was a CCW permit holder, was taking care of some shopping at the Jacksonville Mall. A Mall that has private security and parking lot surveillance as well as off duty Police officers on site. The son left his firearm in the vehicle as the Mall was posted a “No-Firearms allowed” zone by the management. On his way out of the mall in the parking lot near his vehicle he was jumped and beat with a 2x4, then robed. …. He died a few days later.
About six years ago a lady who we know from Church was robed at gun point at an ATM here in town. She was unharmed … but she was also helpless to defend herself if the robber had other intentions.
About 9 years ago …. I was walking in my development … then still under construction with some dark stretches. I was confronted by one man while others attempted to circle around behind me. I drew my weapon and chambered a round (at that time I carried in condition 3). They fled and I have not seen them since.
This area is rural, small and friendly…not an inner city “HOOD” by any stretch and one would for the most part feel safe near anywhere. The above examples are not all that I can give but they are all people who I know. I drive Hwy 17, sometimes at night, sometimes alone, sometimes with my wife and kids. My family shops at the Mall and we have used that same ATM.
The above type situations are likely anywhere in the US at any time and any of us could be a victom. My preparations for defending myself and my family are made with this realization squarely in view.
Model520Fan
New member
Frank Drebin said:
70 per million? How many million people are there in NYC? How many hundreds of people are murdered there every year? And homicide isn't the only violent crime I'd rather not be involved with.
How about if I don't think much of NYC because there are too many people there?
FrankDrebin
Moderator
I don't like crowds either, but the fact remains, NYC is doing something right when it comes to their murder rate. It's very low for their size. It's definately not the place to use (anymore) to conjure up images of murder and probably even violent crime. However, Washington DC is always good to use for examples of mayhem and murder.
If Detroit had NYC's murder rate, they'd have something like 50 homicides a year. They have more homicides that every year that began as fights over food. I can't imagine Detroit with 50 homicides a year. They could assign one homicide cop to each homicide for several weeks each!
If Detroit had NYC's murder rate, they'd have something like 50 homicides a year. They have more homicides that every year that began as fights over food. I can't imagine Detroit with 50 homicides a year. They could assign one homicide cop to each homicide for several weeks each!
I typically collect handguns out of interest like a hobby and shoot primarily for fun only, until I thought, You know how sad it would be if I became a victim of violence and was not armed to defend myself even knowing I have a handgun collection at home. It just hit me, to avoid this I now carry. 
I think JohnKSa said it very well.
Let me add a point or two.
Look at home security as a threat assment / vulnerabiltiy assessment exercise. Are you vulnerable to a violent encounter at home - Do you have an alarm system and is it posted at the street and on the doors and windows? Do you have a dog that barks at the approach of strangers to the house? Are the approaches to your property lit? Are your doors locked and strongly designed against break in? Can anyone and everyone see into your home? Can they get access to any doors or windows (even second story) and be concealed so that they have time to work on them (don't leave ladders out for others to steal or use)? Can you see anyone that may be at the door without having to open it? How deep you make these defences depends on the level of threat. If you live in a neighborhood with a local home invasion or breakin history you live under a very high threat and need very deep defenses that might add cell phone contact alarm service, shattergurad glass on doors and windows, bars/grills, steel doors, double dead bolts, motions sensor and remote control interior lights, attack dog, safe room, and probably a loaded firarm at your disposal at all times. If it's just the city or the region the threat drops. If the threat is low, but you are very vulnerable you need to improve your home's security (a gun is never a good substitute for good physical security of your home).
The next factor is how critical is the system you are protecting? Own just a couple of old records and some broken down furniture? Spend the money on renter's insurance and hope someone breaks in. Got a wife and child at home and some irreplacable personal property? Perhaps now we're where JohnKSa started us out?
BTW, No I don't have loaded firearms at every entrance to the property, but I have been burglarized in my earlier single days and the sick feeling of rage over a stereo system is something I never want trumped with my family.
Let me add a point or two.
Look at home security as a threat assment / vulnerabiltiy assessment exercise. Are you vulnerable to a violent encounter at home - Do you have an alarm system and is it posted at the street and on the doors and windows? Do you have a dog that barks at the approach of strangers to the house? Are the approaches to your property lit? Are your doors locked and strongly designed against break in? Can anyone and everyone see into your home? Can they get access to any doors or windows (even second story) and be concealed so that they have time to work on them (don't leave ladders out for others to steal or use)? Can you see anyone that may be at the door without having to open it? How deep you make these defences depends on the level of threat. If you live in a neighborhood with a local home invasion or breakin history you live under a very high threat and need very deep defenses that might add cell phone contact alarm service, shattergurad glass on doors and windows, bars/grills, steel doors, double dead bolts, motions sensor and remote control interior lights, attack dog, safe room, and probably a loaded firarm at your disposal at all times. If it's just the city or the region the threat drops. If the threat is low, but you are very vulnerable you need to improve your home's security (a gun is never a good substitute for good physical security of your home).
The next factor is how critical is the system you are protecting? Own just a couple of old records and some broken down furniture? Spend the money on renter's insurance and hope someone breaks in. Got a wife and child at home and some irreplacable personal property? Perhaps now we're where JohnKSa started us out?
BTW, No I don't have loaded firearms at every entrance to the property, but I have been burglarized in my earlier single days and the sick feeling of rage over a stereo system is something I never want trumped with my family.
Washington DC is a great example. It is home of 21 LE agencies and it usually ranks as the murder capital of the national based upon the number of homicides per 100,000 citizens.
My state of Maryland has the toughest gun control laws in the nation according to the Brady Bunch, but leads the nation in armed robbery and been at the top or near the top for many years.
IIRC, in a recent hearing in the Maryland Senate, I think MD ranks way up there on assaults on LEOs. People are attacking armed police officers. MD is 19th in the nation population wise but is number four on attacks on LEOs.
My state of Maryland has the toughest gun control laws in the nation according to the Brady Bunch, but leads the nation in armed robbery and been at the top or near the top for many years.
IIRC, in a recent hearing in the Maryland Senate, I think MD ranks way up there on assaults on LEOs. People are attacking armed police officers. MD is 19th in the nation population wise but is number four on attacks on LEOs.
Perhaps I didn't understand. It was my impression that relientk1988 was refering to his impression 'is there are allot of stopping power, and what if speculations' posted on TFL. I didn't think for a moment it was a thesis. Unless you do selective reading here, he's right! There is! I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the postings, I just agree, there are allot of them.
It seems to me there are many folks who spend their life worrying about the BG being around the next corner, or who sweat their way through a car wash with their hand on their carry. I feel bad for that. This is America, and we all have the choice of where to live and raise our families. Work location, wife's preference, or being a retired senior naval officer is not an excuse, it's still a choice we all have.
I grew up in small-town (1,900) USA where everyone knew, everyone. After military service, I chose to leave for a larger town, where I could make a better living. When the big job came along, My wife and I chose to stay in Maine close to our family, and not to take the big job in the big city. It cost us a better retirement, but it was our choice and we're glad we made it.
Having said all that, relientk1988, I shoot trap for funnn! I shoot handguns for fun also. I love running 17 rounds in a row into a target at 35'. I also shoot handguns to stay sharp just in case the BG is around the next corner. I also use a 12 Gauge Pump and a PT-92 for home defense. I just don't live my life waiting for the BG to appear as many posters I have read on TFL seem to imply they do.
relientk1988, that was a nice post. It sure drew some interest!
GUNSMOKE45441
New member
You calif. folks may own only the weaponry your legislature deems legal at this time, good luck in the future.
With regards to your post Gunsmoke, you are right. I do have the right to bear the weaponry that my legislature deems legal. I do also have to right per California Law to defend myself and my family with lethal force against pending threat to my life and my loved ones lives. I do also have the right per the 2nd Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States to ensure that that right is NOT infringed upon by whatever means that present themselves shall it become a necessity to do so. So let me run through this one more time just to make it clear:
I can bear arms
I can defend myself
My country nor my state shall take that away from me, and should they decide to, I will defend that.
So what am I missing? The right to own weapons grade plutonium? an M1 Abrams? A fully Automatic Assault Rifle?
I can bear arms
I can defend myself
My country nor my state shall take that away from me, and should they decide to, I will defend that.
So what am I missing? The right to own weapons grade plutonium? an M1 Abrams? A fully Automatic Assault Rifle?
Many people choose to leave because of the influx of people that come from other parts of the country...I mean really, where in the hell do you think all of these people come from...surely you don't think that it is all illegal immigration. There must be something in California that people like...cuz a lot of folks from back east move here every year.
Obviously, any analogy will break down at some point. Carrying a fire extinguisher around everywhere is a bit more extreme than having a small concealable firearm handy. I carry anytime it's legal, but only my wife knows, and I've carried so much that I rarely think about the gun I'm wearing.
"Looking for potential fires" is a bit extreme, but keeping aware of your surroundings is certainly commendable. One need not sit with one's back to the wall, always facing the door, one need not continually scan the area, but that doesn't mean being oblivious is the only alternative. I certainly am not always looking for a potential attacker, but I do try to stay aware of what's going on around me.
The "lock yourself in the house" comment is purely baiting and sarcasm on your part and doesn't really fit with anything from this thread or any other I've seen on TFL. I've never seen anyone advocate never leaving the house.
But I think that comment is you getting a bit more straightforward about what you really mean, and it's really right along the lines of what I said earlier about some folks refusing to lock their houses because it's an admission of vulnerability.
Clearly, you aren't just saying that you feel safe and you don't feel the need to be more prepared. The last sarcastic comment about locking oneself in the house and never coming out, makes it clear that you are really trying to justify your lack of preparedness by trying to make those who are more prepared than you are seem ridiculous.
Anyone who won't come out of their home because they feel like someone is out to "get them" is usually not in the right frame of mind. With that said, keeping an open mind and having a plan of action is not being in the wrong frame of mind. I think keeping a weapon for home defense is a good idea, but thats just my take on the situation. Other's may feel differently. I just dont like the other option. Will I ever need it, probably not, hopefully not. But if I do need it, will I want to have it? You bet your life I will. I won't live in Kommifornia or NYC, or any of those places, not because I can't keep a gun for defense, that's not what it's about. It's about my take on personal liberties, and I think those states have gone wayyyyy too far. Not living in those states is about my only way of boycotting like action in other parts of the country. The only other recourse I have is to state my opinion on the matter.
relientk1988
New member
further clarification...
After reading some more replies I have some more comments. Hopefully this will clear up the misconception that I am anti-american and anti-gun. I totally believe in protecting your home/property but I have read some rather alarming things on the TFL forums. Has anyone else seen the threads where people say things like "I would shoot first and ask questions later"? I don't think for a second this is the prevailing attitude but there are some. People that, unlike you, wouldn't think twice about killing someone for property. I didn't mean to offend you guys who(within reason) defend your homes/persons. I do not think you're crazy, you're comfortable with your level of security as I am with mine. However there are people that become crazy thinking, "what if?" It is those type of people who take it to extremes and become extremely paranoid. What do you think about these people. Now all of you who have mocked me, is this not a valid point? I'm not saying you guys are crazy, please dont think that. I'm asking isn't it possible that you can be consumed?
Ben
P.S. I dont think you guys are wrong you have assessed the threat levels where you live and have adapted to it. So, is it possible to go too far?
After reading some more replies I have some more comments. Hopefully this will clear up the misconception that I am anti-american and anti-gun. I totally believe in protecting your home/property but I have read some rather alarming things on the TFL forums. Has anyone else seen the threads where people say things like "I would shoot first and ask questions later"? I don't think for a second this is the prevailing attitude but there are some. People that, unlike you, wouldn't think twice about killing someone for property. I didn't mean to offend you guys who(within reason) defend your homes/persons. I do not think you're crazy, you're comfortable with your level of security as I am with mine. However there are people that become crazy thinking, "what if?" It is those type of people who take it to extremes and become extremely paranoid. What do you think about these people. Now all of you who have mocked me, is this not a valid point? I'm not saying you guys are crazy, please dont think that. I'm asking isn't it possible that you can be consumed?
Ben
P.S. I dont think you guys are wrong you have assessed the threat levels where you live and have adapted to it. So, is it possible to go too far?
Yes.
Yes, it's possible to go too far. However, assessing the threat level doesn't tell the whole story. Just because crime is lower in one area than another doesn't warrant complete relaxation. The fact is that horrible crimes happen even in low crime areas--just less often. It's no consolation to the victims that they had "properly assessed the threat level" and that they were prepared to the level "warranted" by area crime statistics.
I have a question now...
Can you honestly say that you don't derive some level of comfort from the fact that you aren't prepared to repel violent crime? In other words, don't you, at some level, feel that your lack of preparation is an affirmation of your safety?
If not, then how do you justify not preparing for the possibility that you might be the victim of violent crime? Surely you understand that low crime doesn't mean no crime, and that living in a relatively safe area is doesn't mean that if you are a crime victim, your attacker will somehow be more gentle or understanding.
relientk1988
New member
I am frustrated...
Ok, first off we're not talking about my level of safety whatever else. All I wanted to do from the beginning is find out if anyone thinks there are limits. John, you yourself agree with me,
Who's saying I don't prepare against violent crime. I lock the doopr and own a dog. Why keep telling me I'm unprepared? What is the level of preparedness? Obviously there is a written standard somewhere that I haven't seen. If you could share it with me I'd be thrilled. This isn't the point of the entire thread(neither is bashing california). And you agree with me that it is possible to get carried away.
Thanks for all the Love,
Ben
Ok, first off we're not talking about my level of safety whatever else. All I wanted to do from the beginning is find out if anyone thinks there are limits. John, you yourself agree with me,
Who's saying I don't prepare against violent crime. I lock the doopr and own a dog. Why keep telling me I'm unprepared? What is the level of preparedness? Obviously there is a written standard somewhere that I haven't seen. If you could share it with me I'd be thrilled. This isn't the point of the entire thread(neither is bashing california). And you agree with me that it is possible to get carried away.
Thanks for all the Love,
Ben
Guys, let's remember that Ben is young enough to not know everything (I'm 47 and don't) and obviously smart enough to know that he doesn't know everything (I ain't always as smart as he seems to be). He's asked a question based on what he's seen at TFL and asked it pretty well. Would an outsider think that some folks here are fixated on using firearms for self defense based on what they read? Woud they think that most of us are?
Ben, what you need to remember is that often the people with the most extreme postions are the most likely to post while those with more mainstream (that's mainstream for this group) views are likely to read and stay in the background. Most people here own guns and shoot for fun, but the majority of them consider firearms part of their defensive tool kit. Learning what's involved is part and parcel to that. Read the areas outside of TT and you'll find tons of folks interested in collecting or firearms history or pure performance and all of that without getting into self defense, but you could make a safe bet that many of them read what's at TT also to help the cement their ideas about self defense. Does that mean the some folks get wrapped up in the self defense aspects? Sure, but not everyone.
Ben, what you need to remember is that often the people with the most extreme postions are the most likely to post while those with more mainstream (that's mainstream for this group) views are likely to read and stay in the background. Most people here own guns and shoot for fun, but the majority of them consider firearms part of their defensive tool kit. Learning what's involved is part and parcel to that. Read the areas outside of TT and you'll find tons of folks interested in collecting or firearms history or pure performance and all of that without getting into self defense, but you could make a safe bet that many of them read what's at TT also to help the cement their ideas about self defense. Does that mean the some folks get wrapped up in the self defense aspects? Sure, but not everyone.
state slamming serves no purpose !!!
Howdy,
As far as the original question goes I feel that it is definately possible to go overboard with home defense. I totally believe in being prepared and a firearm definately works into that equation.. so do deadbolts,a security system, and 120lbs worth of dog.
I think that if a person feels that the "burbs" are much safer than the city and therefore don't worry about crime as much should consider that the vast majority of home-invasions take place in more affluent neighborhoods than lower class ones. This applies to all states.
1 out of 9 people in the U.S. live in California so it really can't be ALL that bad. I lived there for 3 years after getting out of the service and I really do miss it at times.
Ultimately its a matter of personal preference, having small children in my home defiantely means no firearms in every room of the house, but claymores in the driveway could prove really entertaining for unwanted inlaws and visitors.
Howdy,
As far as the original question goes I feel that it is definately possible to go overboard with home defense. I totally believe in being prepared and a firearm definately works into that equation.. so do deadbolts,a security system, and 120lbs worth of dog.
I think that if a person feels that the "burbs" are much safer than the city and therefore don't worry about crime as much should consider that the vast majority of home-invasions take place in more affluent neighborhoods than lower class ones. This applies to all states.
1 out of 9 people in the U.S. live in California so it really can't be ALL that bad. I lived there for 3 years after getting out of the service and I really do miss it at times.
Ultimately its a matter of personal preference, having small children in my home defiantely means no firearms in every room of the house, but claymores in the driveway could prove really entertaining for unwanted inlaws and visitors.