Home Defense Carbine Caliber?

When I used to read a lot of forum posts before I had an AR I thought they weren't reliable enough either. But I did notice over the years that there were fewer and fewer reports of unreliability. So after getting a 15-22 and enjoying the heck out of it, I got a M&P 15 and have enjoyed the heck out of it too. It's been totally reliable and I've even won a couple small competitions with it.
So, is it stocked with fmj right now? Nope. V-max. It's accurate and destructive.

I've seen at least three smallish Texas deer killed with .223. My boys killed two with my gun stoked with 64 grain Winchester power point. At about 75 yards both times the bullet remained intact and exited the deer. Both deer went less than 20 yards. Personally, I would not use this round for home defense because I would be more concerned with over penetration. I would absolutely use it again for hunting. Very impressive performance and accurate in my gun.

I also helped gut a deer shot at about 25 yards with a mini-14. I don't know what round was used, but I think it was a 55 grain soft point or fmj. This bullet completely fragmented and did not exit. The deer dropped immediately and its chest cavity was a complete mess of bloody jello. With a close range shot (as in home defense situations) a .223 is just plain devastating and effective.

Don't use green tip for HD and get a proven name brand AR; that's my advice and opinion.
 
I would go with a 300 blackout sub-sonic load. If you can in your state, suppressor would be optimal. I don't think there is a better home defense setup than that. Granted I know of no non-AR carbine setup like this.

Me? Skip the rifle and use a 20 gauge with #4 buckshot.
 
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I'm not sure if I trust the 5.56's (even with what I've determined to be the best load) ability to stop an attacker as quickly as the SST 7.62x39,
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Pretty sure a 5.56 will stop most attacks fairly quickly. Either round would do the job, but the 5.56 will have a lot less recoil. You'll also have a wider selection of ammo in 5.56. Get the right ammo and you don't have to worry about over-penetration for either caliber.
 
doesnt sound like anyone s going to change your mind on the terminal performance of the .223. but there is miles of difference between "green-tip" fmj and vmax, triple shok, gmx, partitions, BT's......too many to count. all of these bullets leave devastation tissue damage, and at HD distances, the carnage would be unimaginable. mil-spec bullets are not made for SD/HD and any article referencing them would have no bearing on whether the .223 is a suitable protection round when used with proper ammuntion. go watch some gel tests of "green-tip" and then go watch some gel-tests on expanding hollow-point .223's
 
You can put a Choate stock on your Mini 14 and get a pistol grip for a lot less coin than a new AR will run you.

You can do same with a Mini 30, and an SKS. Be careful with the SKS mods, I think 922 compliance may need looked at.
 
if one is actually planning to use an sks for HD. there is only one option in my opinion.


turn your 3 1/2' long gun into a 26" fire-breather
 
You might want to shoot a 5.56 or 7.62x39 inside a building before you choose because they are ridiculously loud. Geo_Erudite's idea of a suppressed AR in 300 Blackout or something similar would be worth considering. My house "long gun" is an FN PS90, it's extremely short and handy, much quieter than short barreled 5.56, and no worries about over penetration with Hornady VMax projectiles. In the near future it will be getting a P90 length barrel with an integral suppressor to keep it the same overall length it is now.
 
I'm of the mind that a rifle used in a home defense situation is (pardon the pun) over kill. Although 5.56/.223 is a pretty good round, its strengths lie at distances beyond the confines of a normal home. The military and police use it because of its rate of fire and the assumption that an armed enemy would be equally armed.
If someones door was kicked down in the middle of the night waking up in time to react is more important than what you will be shooting. keeping in mind also are the "stand your ground" laws and how pumping 10 rounds of .223 into an intruder who might only have a knife might appear to a judge. Maybe a Ruger 10/22 would be just as effective and less expensive.
 
I use Hornady TAP 110 grain Urban .308s in my PTR-91 for home defense. Plenty of stopping power, specifically designed to not penetrate any more than the TAP 75 grain .223 loads but with more wounding capability.

Works for me. :cool:
 
I use Hornady TAP 110 grain Urban .308s in my PTR-91 for home defense. Plenty of stopping power, specifically designed to not penetrate any more than the TAP 75 grain .223 loads but with more wounding capability.
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It may not overpenetrate in the body/gel but what about the event of a miss? I find it hard to believe that a .308 will not keep going through walls/barriers much more than the 5.56.
 
Generally I am looking around with a 45acp with a light and laser.

But I do keep a few Carbines as well as a 12 ga available with ammo in easy get range.
Some thing pretty bad has happened if I am toting them though.
What one would depend on what room I have retreated too.

The most likely room has my AR 15 300 Black out and three 30 round mags.

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Other room has a High point 45acp handy and 4 9 round mags.

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Other room has the 12 GA. Son would grab what ever is handy and come and help.

No doubt about it though. A poop storm has just happened if they are being used.
 
Actually, caliber isn't really that big a deal if I go with the AR Platform, because I can always get a new caliber upper.

If I could be convinced of the DI AR-15's adequacy in reliability, the rest wouldn't be a concern because I can just get what uppers I want.
 
DI AR's/M4's of all kinds of barrel lengths are used by not only the US mil and SF guys but by a host of other countries as well.

Out of the Ocean...across the desert...thru the jungle. Clean, dirty, they work just fine.

Your misgivings are unfounded with todays guns/ammo. Was there a problem when the system first got introduced??...yep. What was that...55 YEARS AGO?? If there was a problem endemic to the weapon it would not be in such widespread use.

Its 2nd only to the AK in numbers around the world, and i think that has to do more with production cost then anything else.

I would bet if you actually got an AR and ran it, you would become a fan as well
 
DI AR's/M4's of all kinds of barrel lengths are used by not only the US mil and SF guys but by a host of other countries as well.

Out of the Ocean...across the desert...thru the jungle. Clean, dirty, they work just fine.

Your misgivings are unfounded with todays guns/ammo. Was there a problem when the system first got introduced??...yep. What was that...55 YEARS AGO?? If there was a problem endemic to the weapon it would not be in such widespread use.

Its 2nd only to the AK in numbers around the world, and i think that has to do more with production cost then anything else.

I would bet if you actually got an AR and ran it, you would become a fan as well
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Alright, I think I've been convinced. I'm going to give the AR-15 an honest try. I think I'll keep the mini but get a Colt AR or something. Is there one more recommended than the Colt 6920?
 
RevolverOcelot said:
If I could be convinced of the DI AR-15's adequacy in reliability
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No offense intended, but that's like saying "if I could be convinced that LeBron James is a good basketball player" or "if I could be convinced that it's a bad idea to drive drunk".

The AR-15 family of firearms is one of the most reliable firearms ever made. Period. Anyone who tries to tell you that they're not "adequatly reliable" simply has no idea what they're talking about.

Here's a good example: I've got a good buddy who has one of the first Daniel Defense rifles made. Like all DD rifles, it's DI. And like many owners of good-quality DI AR-15s, he's never had a single stoppage in his rifle. He decided to buy a SCAR-16, and he loved that rifle, but he had two stoppages in a few thousand rounds with it. For many people, two stoppages in a few thousand rounds isn't that big a deal, but for someone used to quality DI AR-15s it is. So he sold the SCAR.
 
RevolverOcelot said:
Is there one more recommended than the Colt 6920?
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Sorry, I didn't see your last post before I posted that. Anyway, I'd say the Colt 6920 is the best AR on the market for the price. Colts are extremely well made and extremely reliable.
 
I'd say the Colt 6920 is the best AR on the market for the price. Colts are extremely well made and extremely reliable.
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I did hear that Colt lost the military contract for the M4/M4A1/M16 within the last couple of years, right? Was it because of quality? Is there a better 16" AR-15 maker?
 
after decades and decades of refinement, there's no rifle I'd rather take to combat than a direct-impingement AR-platform rifle.
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I think I'd rather have an FN-FAL or an FN-CAL (if it MUST be .223). Their designers pretty much got it right the first time, not decades later. Ditto the G3and its .223 analog.

There wasn't much wrong with the Ar-18, except we couldn't acquire it from Japan, who was making them at the time.
 
The Military has bought M16/M4's from a couple of makers. Contract cost has more to do with it then anything. Unfortunately, lowest bidder contracting is alive and well.

Colt is a good base gun. Daniel Defense is a top flight maker, but you will spend more $ on one.
 
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