High round counts for civilians

Except all hits are not equal. A 380 ACP is not equal to a 357 Sig and a 9mm is not equal to a properly loaded 44 magnum.
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That is an accurate observation and it would also be relevant if, in my comment, "success" were defined as "having a desired terminal effect" instead of "making a desired number of hits".
 
There is no correct answer to the original question.

You use deadly or lethal force until the assailant is deprived of delivering a life-threatening attack. That might be one bullet, or it might be a hundred bullets that depend on you.
 
That is an accurate observation and it would also be relevant if, in my comment, "success" were defined as "having a desired terminal effect" instead of "making a desired number of hits".
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That is the whole point!!!!! The number of hits are irrelevant if they do not stop the fight. Just assigning an arbitrary number of hits to end a fight is ludicrous.
 
The number of hits are irrelevant if they do not stop the fight. Just assigning an arbitrary number of hits to end a fight is ludicrous.
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Your statement is correct. Although I can see that you believe that you are disagreeing with me and also believe that your comment is relevant to mine, I assure you that neither belief is accurate.
 
One bullet "can" stop one predator.

The other 16 in the gun are just in case it doesn't or he brought friends.

And if it saves just one life (mine) I'm happy.
 
I carry two 18 round mags for my 226 and one in the pipe. (One in the gun and one spare)

I don't EVER want to wish I had more ammo in a self defense situation. If it only takes three rounds to stop the threat, I'm not gonna say: "I guess I didn't need those other 34 rounds."
 
What happens when you shoot your assailant depends on many things and all such things may not happen in any particular case.

Three things I believe play out in most cases are:

- Where you shoot him.

- What you shoot him with.

- Who he is.

The round count will be whatever it is.
 
PHP: 
Lance Thomas, had a learning curve

When you read how this Jeweler went through his guns all over the place stage, to a Hi-Cap 9mm pistol, in a holster, on his person?

You can shortcut this process, go Glock 19, in a holster, and a spare magazine, preferably a G17 magazine, why not.

The Gen 4 Glock 19 I carry, I have shot thousands of rounds through, in IDPA Matches. It works first time, all the time.

It is easy to carry, and the 16 round capacity is what it is. I could care less what people say about 5 or 6 round capacity is enough!

A 9mm 147g hollow point, into the dead centre of the heart of an attacker is a most likely kill shot. But medical opinions of 15 seconds before the brain runs out of blood, and oxygen leaves you possibly with a big problem!

So having the ability to fire 4 or more rounds, is a good thing.
And still have 8 under your striker, ready to fire elsewhere, a good thing.

And comments on not needing more than 6, or 8? Who gave that stupid comment?
Your gunfight will be what it is, if you have one. I shoot my G19 really well, best of any other pistols I own. So that is the reason I carry it. It has a 16 round capacity. Reason # 2! And a spare 17 round magazine? Why, why not.
 
When people start trying to split hairs regarding handgun ammunition capacity (or calibers), I sometimes wonder if they actually consider some particular magazine capacity (or caliber) as somehow qualifying to make then "well armed".

It's still just a handgun. It's not a shotgun or a rifle.

I've said it before (maybe even in this thread?), but I'll say it again ...

Even back when I was carrying duty weapons chambered in .357 MAG, 9, .40 & .45, with capacities ranging from 6-16rds before reloading would be needed, I didn't really consider myself "well armed". Just armed.

From my perspective, I started to feel "well armed" when I got the 870 12GA out of the marked or unmarked car.

We often discuss and promote one opinion over some other when it comes to the supposed attributes of different handguns, but the simple reality is that we're still just talking about a handgun.

In other words, pontificating upon the vagaries of handgun capacity and caliber is just another way to try and ignore (pretend?) that we're still limited to just a handgun, and that means we're hoping it might prove to be "adequate", should we be forced to ever use it.

If more handgun capacity (or a bigger caliber) makes someone feel like they're "better armed" than someone else carrying a handgun with less capacity, hopefully their "confidence" doesn't turn out to be misplaced.

Now, knowledge, training, practice, skillset and experience? Those things don't come in a box (or a magazine or cylinder), and they're harder to easily "quantify" ... but they might be more important than either ammunition capacity or handgun caliber. (Luck helps, too, but never count on it.)
 
Fastbolt.

As a non-working LEO, I am relegated to a self-defence pistol, concealed.
And I feel there are going to be bad things happening in the good old USA, it is bubbling up!

So a good pistol is as good as it can get. But an AK47, in the rear of my vehicle, is just in case? And it never gets parked in the street, lives in the garage.

What makes me feel this? We have thousands of legal, and illegal immigrants from Countries who hate America, and Americans! Living here, with access to means of communicating electronically, to anywhere on this planet! To anyone. If France can obtain full Auto AK47s, and issue them illegally to Islamists?
Weapons that are forbidden in France. We have much easier access too.
Semi-auto models used by well-trained people are good enough.

We have the best armed, and trained Police Officers, in the world. And they are mobile, at all hours of the day and night. Which is a curtain around us, but a coordinated attack, striking at an exact time? Could this happen?
Maybe. Am I paranoid? Probably.
 
OhioGuy wrote:
Does anyone know of any documented cases of a civilian (CCW in particular) needing to fire a "high" number of rounds in a defensive encounter?
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Not off the top of my head.

But, since you have asked the question, why don't you do us all the favor of doing the research necessary to answer it? You are unlikely to find it in government or special interest group statistics, but a search of newspaper and broadcast news stories of such shootings would be sensational enough to justify media coverage and could be found by a through review of Google or Yahoo search results.

Are there situations in which someone had to fire more than about 10 or 12 rounds in a self-defense situation. Yes. I lived through one in southern Florida in the early 1970's. I not one of the shooters, just observed it from a distance after my own self-defense encounter. That one has probably not been digitized by the newspapers that covered it, but there are certainly others.
 
Brit said:
Fastbolt.

As a non-working LEO, I am relegated to a self-defence pistol, concealed.
And I feel there are going to be bad things happening in the good old USA, it is bubbling up!

So a good pistol is as good as it can get. But an AK47, in the rear of my vehicle, is just in case? And it never gets parked in the street, lives in the garage.

What makes me feel this? We have thousands of legal, and illegal immigrants from Countries who hate America, and Americans! Living here, with access to means of communicating electronically, to anywhere on this planet! To anyone. If France can obtain full Auto AK47s, and issue them illegally to Islamists?
Weapons that are forbidden in France. We have much easier access too.
Semi-auto models used by well-trained people are good enough.

We have the best armed, and trained Police Officers, in the world. And they are mobile, at all hours of the day and night. Which is a curtain around us, but a coordinated attack, striking at an exact time? Could this happen?
Maybe. Am I paranoid? Probably.
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Brit.

I can understand your concerns. These times remind me of the late 60's and early 70's, but aside from the re-emerging racial militants and anti-government protestors, now we have the anger of a number of unlawful immigrants, a greater presence of the Mexican cartels in our states and the spillover of Islamist terrorists from elsewhere in the world ... and, as you pointed out, better personal communications for good or ill use.

Not only being retired, but also no longer desiring to serve in a full-time reserve capacity, I'm also a private citizen, again. No, I don't drive around with a rifle or shotgun in my vehicles (even to the extent allowable to a private citizen in my state, or the states I regularly visit by car).

Yes, in our part of the world it wouldn't be that difficult for full-auto weapons (or other military equipment) to be smuggled into our southern border, but it neither keeps me up at night, makes me wish to fortify my property or makes me wish to remain at home.

As the recent multiple murders at the music concert in Las Vegas tragically illustrates, there are just so many opportunities for even a deranged lone individual to wreak havoc in our society. However, as has long been said, with great freedom in a society, comes great exposure to risk. We can't make everywhere as safe as we might wish. It's not a safe world.

I'd not think to call you paranoid, anymore than I'd think to call some people, who seem to completely ignore any potential threats, naive. Our concerns and expectations are possibly going to be different than whatever actual problems may come our way, as we can't know what any group of criminals, nuts or terrorists may decide to do on any given day. We can prepare to a reasonable degree, of course, but our expectations may not be what others have planned.
 
Maybe. Am I paranoid? Probably.
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Not with the crime rate in the greater Orlando Metromess..........that said, you get away from "The Attractions", Apopka, and all of the other crime areas, and the rest of central Florida is actually pretty nice - and safe.
 
Does anyone know of any documented cases of a civilian (CCW in particular) needing to fire a "high" number of rounds in a defensive encounter?
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Needing to fire? Dunno. I have no doubt some citizens have fired a bunch of rounds in a defensive situation (cops are on record of firing over a hundred in some.... with no hits.)

Here are some...

http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendm...es-bad-guys-guns-stopped-armed-citizens-2016/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/11/24-times-citizens-used-guns-to-save-lives/

http://www.guns.com/2017/03/17/cell...rmed-citizen-shooting-deputys-attacker-video/

http://www.wesh.com/article/cocoa-store-owner-shoots-would-be-thief-multiple-times/4446857

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2015/09/report_armed_customer_shoots_b.html

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2017/02/armed_customer_shot_suspected.html

Most have citizens shooting the bad guy 'multiple times'.

Deaf
 
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