High end 1911s worth the cost?

Worth is relative but if you've got the money and a love of the 1911 then sure. :D I've only owned Wilson's of the high end 1911s and I can tell you there absolutely is a difference. Just like a Mustang GT vs. a Corvette Z06. Both are fast and will get you from point A to B but if you drive the two you'll know the difference.
 
I have shoot a lot of 1911s. IMO. it is not that much difference in a mid grade and the big boys. Most of them feel great in my hand and have a nice trigger. I am not talented enough to tell the difference in accuracy off hand. A 1911 is a work of art. I just love the way they look! But for reliability, They are the first to have problems at my back yard range. It just breaks the guys heart that bought them for a fashion statement.
 
As others have stated, I wouldn't DREAM of carrying a true custom 1911, or even some of the pricey semi-customs. There are tons of less expensive and very capable pistols out there.

As for bragging rights, most of the gun owners I know have never heard of Nighthawk, Baer, Wilson, Brown, etc. They would say "Man, that's a sharp pistol!" and that would pretty much be it.

But... I think you ought to get whatever you want and can afford. Fine craftsmanship is never a bad thing!
 
If my gun has been confiscated, it has most likely saved my life. I can earn more money.

Very true. But...in my case, I have a Wilson Supergrade that would take 2-3 years to replace (current production time). I'm 66 years old, I don't want to wait 2-3 years to replace a favorite 1911. Has nothing to do with the money, has everything to do with being without that gun and the length of time to replace it.

So, I carry either a SIG RCS, SIG P229, or HK VP9. Could care less if those get lost forever as they are quickly replaced.
 
The 1911 accuracy really relies on how well and how repeatable the barrel marries to the slide. That and trigger pull. Those are the only real difference in 1911's, all else being finish and bells and whistles.

I have an RIA that I would stack up against a Kimber any day. I did work the trigger to a clean break and the barrel slide relationship is clearly on the tight side of tolerance. Tight enough to be very accurate, not so tight as to be unreliable. I did replace the sights, nothing wrong with G.I. sights if you can see them, which I no longer can.

Then I have a Clark Heavy Slide. Very accurate as the marriage of the barrel and slide is perfect. But it is unreliable as far as a fighting gun. You cannot limp wrist that gun at all or it will stove pipe, gotta have a solid hold
 
For Carry purpose, a high end custom pistol will not be worth the cost.
There are plenty of very reliable, plenty accurate, durable handguns in the $400-1500 range.
.... but if you have the money to burn, why not?
 
Like others said before, if you carry it and need to use it, kiss it goodbye. And for a range gun, personally, it's overkill. But, it's your money, and if you want it, go ahead. You have a right to own it.
 
Alpena no one can answer this question for you because "worth the money" is a completely subjective value judgement. I also think that there is some level of miss-labeling in the 1911 world. What many people call custom guns are really just small line production guns. Let me explain:

Guns like off the shelf Les Baer, Wilsons, Ed Browns, Guncrafters, Nighthawk, SA Custom shop, Dan Wesson and Colt Custom shop guns are not true custom guns. They are different levels of production guns. They are not the same as a Ruger SR1911 or even a standard production line Colt but they are still basically production line guns. IMHO.

When you get a Colt M45A1 CQBP it is no different then any other Colt 1991 expect for the amount of time, the spec, the detail of the work and the volume of the assembly line. Certainly more hands on time building and fitting the pistol but there is nothing custom about it. Built to the same spec and everyone of them should be identical. To me this is the definition that Dan Wesson, Colt Custom shop and SAs custom shop guns fall into. They are not "custom" in that when you order a CQBP you are getting the same gun as every other CQBP.

The next level is what I call the semi-custom world. I think people incorrectly call them "custom". My Les Baer TRS special is the same as every other TRS Les Baer has made. It is similar to a Colt CQBP in that respect but the size of the line and the hands on attention to detail has been increased. Also Les Baer, Ed Brown, Guncrafters, Wilson etc... will allow you a bit more customization of their basic packages which can push them closer into the true custom world but I would argue that 90% of the guns owned by shooters from these high end 1911 makers are off the shelf guns like my TRS so I think Semi-custom accurately describes them. You can get a TRS with no front slide serrations or a different finish but for the most part is a TRS. Now most of these guys within reason within their product offering will allow you to customize certain aspects of the gun which many will argue makes them custom.

For me personally a custom gun is where you start with a base gun or frame, barrel, slide combination and built up a gun that is uniquely yours. A one of a kind so to speak. Guys like Yost, Burton, Don Williams, Garthwaite, Harrison, Bruce Gray, Stan Chen, Ned Christiansen, Bill Laughridge, Chuck Rogers, CT Brian, Jim West, Novak, etc... Wilson will still do this kind of work as well but this is not what you are getting when you order CQB off the rack. These guys build "custom"1911 with a capital C!

Now I am not making any sort of "value" judgement in terns of which is better and which represents a better value I am just making a distinction which I believe is often over looked.

I have a few what I would consider "true" custom guns. 2 of them are BHPs one is a 1911. They all cost me less than $3500 including the base gun. I carry all 3.

BHP Alloy from Don Williams



BHP C series by Jim West



1911 Colt CCO by Jim West



For me the "value" of a true custom gun is getting exactly what you want on that gun. Nothing more nothing less. You do not have to settle if you do not want to. You can spec and pick every part and every piece so that it is "your" gun. I have a TRS from Les and overall it might be the best 1911 I own but I do not love it as much as I love my custom CCO Colt.

So I would keep that in mind. If you are looking to built a one of a kind piece of personal expression in a 1911 then I suggest contacting a true custom house and talking to them about what you want in a 1911. Let them help and guide you to your end goal. I believe you could easily reach that objective for less than $3500 unless you gun full house custom at Heirloom LOL.... :eek:

When I say "custom" I am referring to the ability to make the gun the way I want it. My Alloy BHP is a perfect example. Don normally uses Heine or Novak sights. I wanted Harrison 1911 sights on my gun. He got them from Harrison milled the slide and perfectly fit and zeroed those to my BHP. He made a custom safety from the old part, admittedly he does this for most of his BHP builds not just me. I wanted a "Practical" look so we did the frame in NP3 for extra hardness and Rogard on the slide and controls. I wanted a Garthwaite trigger so Don got that and on the gun it went. I wanted a type 3 hammer & sear from C&S and guess what went on the gun. It is uniquely mine. I have never seen one with the same configuration and unless someone copies it I doubt I ever will. That in my book = Custom! To me it was worth every penny and I am planning my next custom build to send off as soon as I build back up the gun $$$ fund.

Now if your goal is to get a really nice 1911 that is a step above what the top production pistols like Dan Wesson provide I would look to the Nighthawks, Wilsons, Ed Browns, Les Baers and choose the one that fits your needs and aesthetics. Each of these guys have their own style and philosophy behind their pistols.

That said I would give serious consideration to a Dan Wesson like the Valor. At about $1800 it is hard to beat. It is IMHO where the law of diminishing returns really kicks in in terms of 1911s. One can spend a lot more and not get a lot more pistol. 99% of us including me cannot squeeze out the performance difference between these guns and guns cost 2X as much.

My last word would be if I were in the market right now today for a off the shelf 1911 in the $3500 or less range I would get a Guncrafters The Pistol with No Name. I just love the plain slide serious business look of these pistols. They are about $2800 OTD IIRC. http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/nonamegovt.htm

The Pistol with No Name

NoNameGov.jpg


-Full Size 5” Government .45ACP
-Frame, Slide, and 5” Match Grade Barrel Machined from Forgings
-Hammer, Sear, and Disconnector Fully Machined from Tool Steel
-Slide Stop Fully Machined from bar stock
-Single Side Thumb Safety and High Sweep Grip Safety
-Extra Thick Heavy Duty Barrel Bushing
-Beveled Magazine Well for Improved Magazine changes
-Solid Match Trigger
-Front Strap and Mainspring Housing
-Checkered 15LPI with 90° Diamonds
-Shredder Grips for confident grip in extreme conditions
-Slide Top Serrations
-G.I. Tritium Sights
-Black Melonite Finish for Extreme Wear and Corrosion Resistance
-Fully Dehorned
-Extreme Reliability Work
-Supplied with Two Magazines Fully Fitted and Tuned all in a GI Logo Cordura Case
-38 oz. Empty 5” Steel Pistol
 
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I'm getting my first "high end" 1911 soon and I've looked at several Nighthawks and this has crossed my mind. I'm new to "custom " 1911s so I'm basically looking for someone to give me a succinct description on these guns. ...
I don't own a full house custom. I do own a Wilson, a couple of Baers, and some Browns. They each have a bit different philosophy in their pistols.

Baer - Solid guns built tight, tight, tight. These sometimes need a 300 round break-in as a result. If you want an accurate pistol, Baer will guarantee a one and a half inch group at 50 yards (with a particular load) for an extra fee. Baer does not do a lot of customization. Finish is fine but not on par with either Brown or Wilson.

Brown -- Very smooth and nicely finished. These are my favorite higher end 1911s. In recent years, Brown has started doing more customization than he used to do, though not as much as Wilson. For example, you can specify trigger length, get a crown cut barrel, Hi Power cuts, different sights and more. He won't do every trigger or sight but has certain ones he will use.

Wilson -- To my knowledge, he is the only one who puts his best smiths on his top line pistols. Beautifully finished. He will do more customization than the other two above.

As far as models are concerned, have an idea of what you want -- a pistol with target sights, a carry pistol, etc. Then look at their websites for models.

BTW, some dealers will discount the price of the above if you special order.
 
Once you have a Baer, Guncrafter, Nighthawk, Wilson, or Brown, you will sell the Colt because you will feel like you are just literally wasting ammo with it. You don't have to be a pistol champion to see your grips shrink to a fraction of what they were. At least that's what I found.

...or you will have your Colt customized by Yost, Alchemy, ...

Whatever gun gives you the best chance of survival is the one to have, cost notwithstanding.
 
Once you have a Baer, Guncrafter, Nighthawk, Wilson, or Brown, you will sell the Colt because you will feel like you are just literally wasting ammo with it. You don't have to be a pistol champion to see your groups shrink to a fraction of what they were. At least that's what I found.

...or you will have your Colt customized by Yost, Alchemy, ...

Whatever gun gives you the best chance of survival is the one to have, cost notwithstanding.

I assume you meant to type groups not grips. LOL

I am not sure that one needs to spend $3500 to get the best chance of survival. Again I am not sure that a $3500 Yost will defend your life better than a DW Valor or a Colt Combat Elite. I mean honestly a Glock is more than likely also up to the task if you are. :eek:

I guess I just do buy the idea that price tag = higher chance of survival. Can you elaborate?
 
Alpena said:
High end 1911s worth the cost?

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I'm getting my first "high end" 1911 soon and I've looked at several Nighthawks and this has crossed my mind. I'm new to "custom " 1911s so I'm basically looking for someone to give me a succinct description on these guns. I'm looking to spend $3,500 on a range/carry pistol so model recommendations would be appreciated too. Thanks.
OP, your actual post doesn't seem to fit with the title you gave it. The title asks whether high end 1911s are worth the cost, but the post says that you will be getting one, and asks for recommendations.

As for me, I don't know whether they're worth the cost to you. I've never owned or even fired anything that might be considered a "high end" 1911. That said, I doubt it would be worth it for me. I'm not a competition shooter. I'm probably not a good enough shooter to really see the difference between a $1000 gun and a $2000 gun, much less a $3000 gun. Not that I wouldn't enjoy a $3000 gun. I would, but to my mind, that's a luxury item. That being the case, if I had $3500 to spend, I'd most likely spend about $1000 on the gun, and $2500 on ammunition and accessories.

Accordingly, I leave the recommendations to those who know more about this than I. Good luck on your search.
 
I don't particularly like the mechanics of the 1911. The the sear/leaf spring design, the grip safety, and the single-stack low capacity in the traditional models turns me off. Having said that, someone on this forum has a custom polished blue, compact (I think?) 1911 with a fantastic melt job. This gun is absolutely stunning; beyond stunning!. If whoever owns that gun reads this, please post another picture of it.....I might consider retracting all of my negative comments about 1911's if I get to see that gun again.:D
 
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