heres a scenario for ya, what would you do?

Trust me if the bad guy's thought all 7-11 employees were armed,it would be the last place they would be visiting.

For a large percentage you're right, of course. But we tend to give BG's way too much credit. A lot of stupid guys out there who are going to present their 9mm right away and say ... "you feel lucky, 7-11 clerk? Well ... do you?" Or else they just pull the trigger without saying anything and get another gun.

For some BG's, knowing there is a gun in every 7-11 makes them more of a target instead of less.

You've got one minimum wage half spaced out guy working in an open counter with a gun at 3:00 a.m. Nothing separating him from the general public. 3 punks go in to buy cigarettes, they suddenly grab him, drag him over the counter, and then they're the ones with the gun.

Nope. If I owned 7-11's I would probably turn a blind eye if my clerk decided to carry concealed on his own, but unless he's in a secured area (where he can react to people before they can reach him) carrying only is of no real benefit. I would not want to carry openly if I was a 7-11 clerk.
 
I have a Florida Non resident permit and I read the rules very diligently, and I come up with this.

776.012* Use of force in defense of person....
(YOU are allowed to use deadly force as soon as you reach this point.....)

However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

776.08* Forcible felony "Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

In reading the states web site or the handbook that came with my permit
I find nothing that describes the weapon or limits it to certian limits. on and again i quote from the States website...."to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony."

NOTHING but your judgement says if I do not shoot, I will be hurt or killed, or some one else will be, OR someone will commit a FORCIBLE FELONY..actually quite simply put for state documents.
 
it was my understanding that here in florida, you do not have to retreat from your place of residence or your place of business. :confused:
 
It'd have to be one of those split-second judgement things. If, at that moment, I thought he was a genuine threat, I'd step back and shoot him where he stood. If, on the other hand, I thought he was just a shakey jackass, I'd permit him to live and might even give him the money. I've yet to have the employer I loved so much that I would kill or die to protect $50 of their money.
 
"If, on the other hand, I thought he was just a shakey jackass, I'd permit him to live and might even give him the money. "


why on earth would you give him the money? because you have sympathy for him? he has a screwdriver and you have a gun, not a chance he gets the money from me, i have zero regard for criminals.
 
The clerk should direct him to the proper aisle-that has the screw he needs.

Seriously, whoever taught that a screwdriver is not lethal, well, has his own screw loose!
 
Florida Self Defense

I don't think the statement that in Florida the ED would have to have a gun or knife is accurate. A screw driver can be a weapon, all depends on the context. The Florida statutes look like most states... and you can use force to prevent a forcible felony.

Sounds like someone was "puffing"

FWIW

Chuck

----------------------------------------------

Here is what the actual Florida statutes have to say about self defense.

"776.012 Use of force in defense of person.--A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony."
 
why on earth would you give him the money?

Did you miss the part where I said I would neither kill nor die for $50 of 7-11's money?
The whole of this discussion is moot, for I do not work as a clerk at a convenience store, nor have I ever done so.
If that is your spot on the socio-economic food chain, you do as you think best (advice I seem to give over and over in this forum).
 
Golgo-13:

While I sympathize with your concept of not being willing to kill over an employer's $50, I am not willing to die over it. The problem is that all too often, those bandits kill even cooperative clerks just because. No reason, just because. Even shaky jackasses attack just because. That being the case, I'd go ahead and shoot: Not over some measly $50, but to save my own precious (to me, at least) hide.
 
While I sympathize with your concept of not being willing to kill over an employer's $50, I am not willing to die over it.

Please go back and read what I posted in its entirety and respond to that. I already stated that I am perfectly willing to kill in self-defense. I also clearly stated, twice, that I am not willing to die over somebody else's $50.
 
Florida Gun Law "In Plain English" from www.Packing.org:


Lawful Use Of A Firearm For Defense

A license to carry a firearm is not a license to use it. Under Florida law, you can use deadly force only if you reasonably believe yourself or another person to be in danger of death or serious personal injury, or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony (such as rape, robbery or carjacking). There are two important concepts to remember: The first is the "Duty To Retreat"; this means that if you can avoid the danger by running away, then run away, no matter how you may feel that this affects your honor. The second is the "Castle Doctrine", which means that you do NOT have a "Duty To Retreat" when in your own home or place of business; you can stand your ground and defend your premises and possessions even if you could avoid personal danger by running away.
 
"Did you miss the part where I said I would neither kill nor die for $50 of 7-11's money?"


no i caught that. you dont have to shoot him, and you certainly would not die, remember, you have the gun, he has the screwdriver, so why give him the money, he IS a criminal. pull your gun and he either runs or drops to the floor and goes to jail, either way, he aint getting the money.
 
pull your gun and he either runs or drops to the floor and goes to jail, either way, he aint getting the money.

If I pull my gun, somebody is getting shot. Full stop, end of statement.
I practice drawing and firing, not drawing and waiting to see whether the jackass with the screwdriver is overawed by the mere sight of my mighty rod.
If I think he is a threat to my personal safety, or that of a customer in the store, I'll kill him where he stands. If he isn't a threat to me, why not follow 7-11's corporate policy? You may like to think of yourself as the righteous executioner of criminals, but the hood doesn't fit me.
 
"If he isn't a threat to me, why not follow 7-11's corporate policy? You may like to think of yourself as the righteous executioner of criminals, but the hood doesn't fit me."
__________________


maybe you didnt catch what i has posted earlier. i would NOT have shot unless he lunged at me with the screwdriver. i like to see criminals put in jail where they belong.
 
Draw on a blindside, keeping the peice out of BGs sight. Say "Im sorry sir, i cannot do that." BG moves on you. You erase BG from the planet. "He rushed at me with that screwdriver, officer. Its on the tape - i felt he was going to kill me!"

Not only do you get off, but you just did the community a favor.
 
If I have a gun on a guy with a screwdriver and there is a counter between us, no way will I shoot. I do not feel my life is in jeopardy and I would feel bad if I killed him. He raises the screwdriver back to throw it or leaps at the counter, then I'll shoot.
 
:rolleyes: What is it about these, ‘what if’ scenarios that always strikes me as so odd? I’m reminded of those, ‘situational ethics’ schemes from the hippie era of the late 60’s and 70’s. (What crap that all turned out to be!) If a law enforcement official is confronted by an actor with a weapon; and that perpetrator closes to within 21 feet of him, the officer is justified to draw his weapon and fire – period! Statistically speaking, (even if the incident does get past the grand jury) once the case gets to court, there isn’t a jury on the planet that’s going to convict that officer.

Now, take that same officer out-of-uniform and, all of a sudden, a whole new set of legal standards suddenly applies: ‘the obligation to withdraw’, ‘the necessity to seek a line of retreat’, ‘the castle doctrine’, etc. Inside the United States there’s clearly one set of weapon’s use regulations for law enforcement, and another entirely different set of weapon’s sue laws for civilians. (Even the term, ‘civilian’ is used derisively by many in the legal community.)

Anyone who is naïve enough to think that handing over the money is going to save himself from being injured or worse is, well, simply not paying attention to the news. Many times these guys will murder you just for the shear love of killing. (Ethnicity may, also, enter into the psychological equation.) Anytime you’re threatened by an armed BG you’ve got a potentially lethal problem staring you right in the face; and you need to seriously consider the use of deadly force in exactly the same way that every law enforcement official is trained to respond!

I don’ t want to kill anyone, either; and I, also, don’t think that someone should die for $50.00 of the corporation’s money; however, if my own physical well-being is being threatened by someone who’s demonstrating a willingness to end my life or cause me serious bodily harm, well then, what happens next is going to happen fast; and it’s going to have a lot to do with how close the BG gets to me with that weapon. Sure, I’ll give warning if I’m able; but, ‘talking’ is not going to be tops on my list of things I need to do right now!

This said, you couldn’t get me to work in any convenience store for any amount of money; I’ve already been in a gun shop when a group of gang bangers came into the store. Even with numerous armed individuals on both sides of the counter, that’s about as thrilling as I would, ever, care to see things. When I found out that my own sister-in-law had taken a cashier’s position at a local convenience store I went to see her, and convinced her to immediately quit. At first she was hesitant; but she finally agreed to do as I asked. Several months later when the place was robbed at gunpoint, she couldn’t thank me enough. (and, neither could my wife!)

Several things are for certain: If you anticipate, ever, having the need to defend yourself, at the very least, you should be intimately familiar with the weapons' use laws of the local you’re operating in. (Many of us are licensed to carry in numerous different states; so, yes, it IS necessary to be familiar with the laws in each state that you move through.)

Remember that, especially in places like a convenience store, everything you do will be on camera; so act accordingly. More than this we have just entered an age of real-time cell phone video and photographs; and the modern world has never been more transparent than it is right now. It is, probably, a good idea to practice the same, ‘mental visualizations’ about your typical daily responses as you do for weapons’ drills and defense scenarios at the range.

Regardless, there is one hard fast rule that every civilian who carries a weapon should keep foremost in mind : After using a weapon, SHUT UP and let your lawyer do all the talking. Every form of modern attack entails two distinct events for which you need to be ready to defend yourself: First there is the actual physical attack, itself; and, then, there is the legal inquiry that follows and from which charges against you may result. One of the most poignant and bitter lessons of my own life is the realization that there is the real world of the street on the outside, and the contrived socio-political world that exists inside the modern courtroom. With no exceptions that I’m able to think of, the less you have to say at the scene of a shooting, or immediately afterward, the better your chances are going to be to effectively defend yourself from the legal brouhaha that is sure to follow.

Personally, I have a simple rule that I like to follow: Before I would be willing to shoot another person - for any reason - I would ask myself the distinct question, ‘Is this problem REALLY worth the minimum of $10,000.00 that the first bullet I fire is sure to cost me?’ ;)
 
I don't get you get you guys

I know brandishing is illegal but do you really think Jimbo with the screwdriver is going to run to the cops and tell them you drew your weapon and pointed it at him after he attempted to rob you? Give me a break! I would draw the gun and hold him for the cops. If he runs, just let him go.

No offense to convenient store/liquor store clerks but you guys have a great chance of getting robbed. Get a safer job. Even if you are able to defend yourself, you may end up getting tried by an over-zealous DA, getting sued by the Scumbag if he survives (make sure it doesn't) or the relatives of the aforementioned scumbag, and then getting fired for violating a no weapons policy. You guys are just looking for trouble.

I worked at a Wendy's as a night manager as part of my hospitality management program. This store was located on a busy street but it was not in the best of neighborhoods. I talked to the franchisee about carrying but he said it was prohibited. After having drugged out wackos walking up tp the drivethrough and having to fire a crack hoe after my first week, I carried regardless. I borrowed my mom's Sig P230 since you can just slip it in your pocket. I am fortunate I never had to use it but I know I would have to deal with a bunch of crap if I did.
 
Now, take that same officer out-of-uniform and, all of a sudden, a whole new set of legal standards suddenly applies: ‘the obligation to withdraw’, ‘the necessity to seek a line of retreat’, ‘the castle doctrine’, etc. Inside the United States there’s clearly one set of weapon’s use regulations for law enforcement, and another entirely different set of weapon’s sue laws for civilians. (Even the term, ‘civilian’ is used derisively by many in the legal community.)
I understand your point, and agree (to a point) that it seems rather unfair. However, knowing those who work in the Law Enforcement profession; my educated opinion would be that since they're obligated to protect the public, whereas we (as CHL holders) are only obligated to defend ourselves, they (the LEOs) are given more room "legally" as to when lethal force is justified. Basically, here in PA, it's well spelled out in Crimes Code.
 
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