HD plan- stay guard at top of stairs?
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Pistolgripshotty
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Don't plan for such things(things NEVER go as planned), always have more than one route and routine. Act accordingly. Move as a unit, hold ground as a unit and fight as a unit. That's why you have a family. Good luck and happy trails!
youngunz4life
New member
not huddle in a corner. 'sit' in the corner and blow away any threat to you and/or your family if anyone breachs that entrance. looking for something goes horribly wrong if BG is armed and hears you coming
Frank Ettin
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On the other hand, we generally see that folks who have some actual training in house clearing and/or done much Force-on-Force training are the ones who are most likely to think that leaving a place of safety, unless absolutely necessary, is a bad idea.Mobuck said:
Bingo!youngunz4life said:
If you are at the top of the stairs, you already have pretty good cover.
If you lie on your stomach and peer over the stairs, you will present a real small target. Your weapon will already be trained on the space any intruder must pass through to come up. You will even have a natural gun rest.
No cover is perfect, but you WILL have a tremendous advantage.
If you lie on your stomach and peer over the stairs, you will present a real small target. Your weapon will already be trained on the space any intruder must pass through to come up. You will even have a natural gun rest.
No cover is perfect, but you WILL have a tremendous advantage.
This ... the bedrooms are upstairs and so is the family, the stairs are the boundary, the line between steeling my tv and threatening my family, step on those, you get shot.
I've thought about being vulnerable about shots through the floor too, at the top of my stairs is the main bathroom with all tile. That makes the floor 3/4" plywood, 1/2" cement board, 1/2" tile/cement, with 5/8 of sheet-rock before that (ceiling below). The bathroom floor should offer some protection. The kids have those captains beds that are packed full of junk underneath, they just need to stay in their beds, and the wife can shelter in the master bath ... also tiled. I think shots through the floor are unlikely, but you do think about those things.
And then OldMarksman, with his years of wisdom, pointed out.
I very clearly said, "if possile".
LOL, Thanks for the admonition that if they came in the back door, I wouldn't be able to make my stand at the front door. I'm writing that down now, to preclude myself from forgetting and I intend to memorize it no matter how long it takes. As for their intentions, give me a break. If they're forcing their way in I have a good enough idea. Didn't say anything about shooting before they enter.
Just saying that I'd rather not let home invaders get in the house in the first place. If they are already in, I'm not letting them up the stairs. If they are upstairs, I'd lock myself in my bedroom and guard the door.
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FireForged
New member
very nice point
Alright, be nice. My perceptions of various flaws in the HD situations above:
How much time are we talking about from the recognition of the threat and reaction to the threat? Perimeter alarm system? Mark 1 hearing unit? Dogs barking then silence?
In my house, if someone breaks down the front door, with death for us on his mind, I have less than a few seconds to react. "I'd meet them at the front door" works only if they send you an invitation or rings the front door bell. "Hellooo, I'm here to kill you. Please let me in
"
As far as the BGs shooting through the ceiling to get you...really? What type of HD scenario are we talking about here? TEOTWAWKI? The BGs would have to know the floorplan of your upstairs unless they brought lots of ammo. If this is the case, I think your stuff is in big trouble anyway. Heck, shoot down through the floor and get some.
Laying down on the floor at the top of the stairs and having a steady rest? How many seconds have elapsed for you to become alert, assesed the threat, arm your self and set up your kill zone? Using the above scenario, I'd bet there'd be some cover fire laid down soon as the BGs advanced on you if they were serious. I have a stairwell that goes up 8 steps then a landing then 8 more up. There is a point where the BG could shoot over and nail me laying there.
The more I've read, the more I think this is more like a Hollywood scenario than more common HD scenarios in the real world for the most part.
I apologize since I've probably offended all of you but I raise,IHMO, valid points. It's easy to get the mindset that "I've got it all covered" but do we really?
Hobie
How much time are we talking about from the recognition of the threat and reaction to the threat? Perimeter alarm system? Mark 1 hearing unit? Dogs barking then silence?
In my house, if someone breaks down the front door, with death for us on his mind, I have less than a few seconds to react. "I'd meet them at the front door" works only if they send you an invitation or rings the front door bell. "Hellooo, I'm here to kill you. Please let me in
"As far as the BGs shooting through the ceiling to get you...really? What type of HD scenario are we talking about here? TEOTWAWKI? The BGs would have to know the floorplan of your upstairs unless they brought lots of ammo. If this is the case, I think your stuff is in big trouble anyway. Heck, shoot down through the floor and get some.
Laying down on the floor at the top of the stairs and having a steady rest? How many seconds have elapsed for you to become alert, assesed the threat, arm your self and set up your kill zone? Using the above scenario, I'd bet there'd be some cover fire laid down soon as the BGs advanced on you if they were serious. I have a stairwell that goes up 8 steps then a landing then 8 more up. There is a point where the BG could shoot over and nail me laying there.
The more I've read, the more I think this is more like a Hollywood scenario than more common HD scenarios in the real world for the most part.
I apologize since I've probably offended all of you but I raise,IHMO, valid points. It's easy to get the mindset that "I've got it all covered" but do we really?
Hobie
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youngunz4life
New member
remember teasle in first blood? he was waiting for rambo on the stairwell...didn't end to good and yes people can fire thru the floors. there is a smaller target too...if someone fires a shotgun blast up the stairs you're in trouble. would if someone comes thru the upstairs window? would if you need to get outside? if the stairs work for you I don't see a problem with it...I am actually not putting down the notion. I am just picturing my stairs in my home and shooting at the bedroom door from whatever part of the bedroom I am in seems much better and logical for me. BG can shoot thru the door, fire here and there and never come close to hitting the target. meanwhile I have an easy shot. Stairs aren't gonna work in my situation but if you are already on the stairs before this all goes down you have a better chance. I have always been a huge advocate of 'tough luck' as well if someone is in our home but your scenario does bring that up....would if the neighborhood teenage girl has snuck out to come meet your son? well I guess you will shoot as soon as someone crosses that stairwell. no, in my room like an early post mentioned is the way to go...911 called(no need to stay on phone)...perp would have to be in a blackout to be stupid enough to come thru that threshold and I can warn the perp that way too(if I decide to). I have a much better chance fortifying the room...there's only one or two ways in and a window is a way out for me and my family if necessary too
just my thoughts but I respect the stairs notion if that works in your situation
just my thoughts but I respect the stairs notion if that works in your situation
Every house is a little bit different.
Sometimes the stairs are good, sometimes the bedroom is better. Or you may have a reinforced closet somewhere.
I still don't like the front door unless you have someone to cover the back door.
Assess your own situation, don't rely on Rambo movies.
Remember; if you only have seconds, but can set up a situation where the BG doesn't have those seconds, you have a big advantage.
If you need a gaurantee, hire a round the clock security team. Or build a steel reinforced room and sleep in it. Otherwise, set up the best scenario your house presents and know you at least have the home team advantage.
If you are attacked by four professional hit men with shotguns. Well; it just wasn't your day. If you get invaded by 1 or 2 amateurs that don't expect you to fight back, then the Bad Guys won't have a very good day. Either way, you did your best.
Sometimes the stairs are good, sometimes the bedroom is better. Or you may have a reinforced closet somewhere.
I still don't like the front door unless you have someone to cover the back door.
Assess your own situation, don't rely on Rambo movies.
Remember; if you only have seconds, but can set up a situation where the BG doesn't have those seconds, you have a big advantage.
If you need a gaurantee, hire a round the clock security team. Or build a steel reinforced room and sleep in it. Otherwise, set up the best scenario your house presents and know you at least have the home team advantage.
If you are attacked by four professional hit men with shotguns. Well; it just wasn't your day. If you get invaded by 1 or 2 amateurs that don't expect you to fight back, then the Bad Guys won't have a very good day. Either way, you did your best.
HALLAUSTIN
New member
Identifying the perp is something I didnt give thought... But I take my stand at the stairs. Dad covers the back door and stays in his room, calls the authorities, I take cover by the top of the stairs and cover the stairwell/ front door.
Flaws in my plan are 2nd story break-ins or if someone with no ill intent sneaks in. I will be buying a weapon light now. I also like the challenge/password idea.
Flaws in my plan are 2nd story break-ins or if someone with no ill intent sneaks in. I will be buying a weapon light now. I also like the challenge/password idea.
OldMarksman
Staff
I apparently misunderstood when I interpreted taking a stand at the door and not letting them get into the house as an intention to use deadly force before they entered.
I think everyone would agree with that.
I think that everything would depend upon where the invaders should happen to enter and where the defender and other occupants happen to be at the time.
If I am upstairs, I would intend to let the threat come to me if he or she or they should so choose. I cannot cover the stairs safely, however.
If I am downstairs, I have to be consider being confronted by someone coming up through the door to the basement, kicking in the front door, kicking in one of two other doors, or entering from the porch though a window. Getting up the stairs to defend from a bedroom would likely not be safe unless I somehow detected an attempted entry before it happened.
panic room, escape plan....
That's not a bad plan but I'd rally every family member in the main or master bedroom then block the access doorway/door. It would be ideal if the room has a seperate door or hatch to the attic-crawlspace to use as an escape route if needed.
Keep in mind how the 2 scumbag killers/robbers in CT had the dad seperate(basement) then killed-raped the females & set the house on fire.
Being away from the family members or standing alone in a narrow hallway could be risky.
Author, sworn LE officer & tactics instructor Massad Ayoob also says to stay together in one area & hunker down until LE gets on scene.
In a home invasion or armed robbery event, I'd rather a bad guy(s) come to me on my terms rather than me go to them.
To run drills or prepare for any possible events(phone down, fire-smoke, injury, weapon malfunction, etc) during a real lethal force event.
I've worked in the security/protective service field for over twenty years & served four years in the US armed forces. I too would set up a home security plan.
CF
That's not a bad plan but I'd rally every family member in the main or master bedroom then block the access doorway/door. It would be ideal if the room has a seperate door or hatch to the attic-crawlspace to use as an escape route if needed.
Keep in mind how the 2 scumbag killers/robbers in CT had the dad seperate(basement) then killed-raped the females & set the house on fire.
Being away from the family members or standing alone in a narrow hallway could be risky.
Author, sworn LE officer & tactics instructor Massad Ayoob also says to stay together in one area & hunker down until LE gets on scene.
In a home invasion or armed robbery event, I'd rather a bad guy(s) come to me on my terms rather than me go to them.
To run drills or prepare for any possible events(phone down, fire-smoke, injury, weapon malfunction, etc) during a real lethal force event.
I've worked in the security/protective service field for over twenty years & served four years in the US armed forces. I too would set up a home security plan.
CF
Lets stay on *OUR* side of the fatal funnel. We can what-if, what if from now till doomsday. Get your people together, stay on your side of the line, call the cops, and defend the access point.
Does anyone here have an example of a home invader shooting through stairs or floors that didn't happen in a movie? No? Lets prepare for problem one- not problem ten.
Does anyone here have an example of a home invader shooting through stairs or floors that didn't happen in a movie? No? Lets prepare for problem one- not problem ten.
youngunz4life
New member
thx for my afternoon laugh. I can go back to reading your post and subsequent ones now LOL. You are right of course, it just popped in my head....great movie by the way.
rambo trivia:
1982 first blood begins the very same way that "rambo" ends(the last movie) - John J Rambo carrying his green army dufflebag(this time going home)
youngunz4life
New member
I also agree with staying together. first off, i don't want to rely on someone keeping their plan, remembering their role, etc. too many variables especially when emergencies arise the stuff hits the fan and the link in that chain can break.
that doesn't change the fact that the stair stand would be bad at best in my situation/home. If the BG knows where you are he has a better chance of giving you a really bad day or headache. you need to look ahead at the chain of events that can occur with decision to problem one so other cans of worms aren't opened.
that doesn't change the fact that the stair stand would be bad at best in my situation/home. If the BG knows where you are he has a better chance of giving you a really bad day or headache. you need to look ahead at the chain of events that can occur with decision to problem one so other cans of worms aren't opened.
I agree with the OP about taking up a defensive position. The house clearing we did was always based on rapidly building up overwhelming force at critical points. In addition, securing your rear and flanks was a good idea - it's easy to get ambushed. I short, clearing a building is a team sport. Kind of tough if you are the only one on the team.
I also agree with his choice of position. Practically speaking, there is only one avenue of approach to the second floor and that is where his family is. Whether he is at the top of the stairs covering the entrance to the stairwell or back in a room covering the exit is a detail best left to the guy who is going to do it.
His choice of position also distinguishes between what is worthy of using deadly force to protect (people) and what isn't (downstairs property). I agree with that too.
I also like the idea of taking the initiative by letting the burglar(s) know there is someone in the house. I expect that most of them would depart with something they could carry. That's fine by me. If they keep coming knowing the home is occupied, I think it reasonable to fear that they are armed and capable of dealing with opposition.
Finally, while it depends on the weapon, there isn't a whole lot of cover (protection) in a frame house. And my wife would kill me if I put sand bags in her nest.
I also agree with his choice of position. Practically speaking, there is only one avenue of approach to the second floor and that is where his family is. Whether he is at the top of the stairs covering the entrance to the stairwell or back in a room covering the exit is a detail best left to the guy who is going to do it.
His choice of position also distinguishes between what is worthy of using deadly force to protect (people) and what isn't (downstairs property). I agree with that too.
I also like the idea of taking the initiative by letting the burglar(s) know there is someone in the house. I expect that most of them would depart with something they could carry. That's fine by me. If they keep coming knowing the home is occupied, I think it reasonable to fear that they are armed and capable of dealing with opposition.
Finally, while it depends on the weapon, there isn't a whole lot of cover (protection) in a frame house. And my wife would kill me if I put sand bags in her nest.
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