Has there EVER been a documented case..

[Edward429451]

There's nothing wrong with experimentation at the load bench. Frankenloads (out of the ordinary) are fun to load and shoot. Things that are not available on the open market. But let's not try to make them something that they are not. They are not mainstream, they are not even widely accepted as any sort of standardized round, and to a non hand-loader, they are a fantasy.

Even good frankenloads are given the hairy eyeball and a hmmm by most people. You have to accept this and not be offended when people think you're nuts. There's a fine line between mad scientist and genius. I bet even Paco Kelly took some flak when he was just beginning to experiment with his loads and talked about it.

But you don't even handload, so from where is the source of your consternation? From those here that are trying to help you with the benefit of their experience? Not. Lighten up about it. You sound pretty interested in tinkering, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that. You must walk before you can run though so I suggest getting yourself a modest handloading setup and start loading a bunch of standard type loads to get some experience under your belt. Later on, you can design us a better mousetrap.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I'm going to attempt to answer the OP's question in the most scientific way I can.

Making the .30-30 the best it can be.

I picked what is probably a very typical 130gr Speer FN bullet from QuickLoads database and found max velocity from a 24" barrel (pretty long for a 30-30) was a 106.9% compressed load of Accurate 2495 yielding 2,695 fps.

This bullet, sighted 3" high at 122 yards, will be 3 inches low at 246 and begins with 2,115ft/lbs energy while retaining 1,160 at 246 yards.

The pointiest, flattest shooting (almost) 130gr .308 bullet I could find is the Sierra MK. It can be loaded to approximately 2,550fps (faster than several actual 130gr options because they're longer and take up space in the case) with a 107.7% compressed charge of IMR3031.

That bullets maximum height (3") comes at 120 yards with a 3" low point of... 247. It begins life with 1,961ft/lbs and retains 1,187 at 247.

In other words, loading a flat shooting, pointy bullet gains you 27 ft/lbs of energy and 3 feet of usable distance at the long end and just over 120 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

If I push this same Sierra bullet to 50,000psi, 20% over SAAMI max pressure of 42,000psi, I gain only 10 yards of range and 16ft/lbs of energy over the FN bullet.

If that doesn't asnwer the question, I don't know what will. The 30-30 is already the best it can be.

 

[Tom Matiska]

Mike's post #13 is similar to what a gunsmith at a factory repair center told me years ago. He said they get a couple every year. His explantion was the rounds go forward in the tube under recoil(actually tube goes back) and then are slammed back by the expanding spring. Most likely with two rounds in the tube(most spring action)... less likely with a fully compressed spring.

Buffalo Bore/Marlin/small primer issue has been well documented.

 

[jimbob86]

I'm asking because I'm curious, have a 30/30 and if its practically impossible to chain react an explosion why is everyone afraid to up the loads ?

Kids these days assume that if they have not seen pictures and video of it on the internet, then it either happened so long ago that it is either Ancient History or it is a Fable. They don't see any Sumerians running around in chariots, so it can't possibly happen today......

Just looking at the physics of it, taking a pointed metal object and tapping it against the primer of a live round repeatedly looks like tap dancing through a mine field to me. To advocate doing so with the goal of gaining a such a tiny ballistic advantage is telling me somebody's understanding of Risk/Reward ratios is all outa whack.

 

[Slamfire]

Firearms manufacturer's are not going to share their data bases of accidents, because it will feed liability lawyers.

If you settle a monetary lawsuit with a gun manufacturer they are going to make you agree not to talk about it. Since you want the money, you will stay silent.

This whole discussion shows just how ignorant the gun community is about the characteristics of primers. Primer sensitivity varies within the lot, primer mix sensitivity varies depending on the composition of the mix. The crystal structure of the styphnate changes ignition sensitivity.

Given that primers are not 100% predictable, unfortunate funnies can happen when primers get bumped: Sometimes they go off:

Primer goes off in a Purse! http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...ide-woman-purse-shoots-her-leg-232052308.html

By Eric Pfeiffer, Yahoo! News | The Sideshow – Tue, Jun 12, 2012

A Pennsylvania woman was shot in the leg while shopping at a local department store on Tuesday. But in a nearly unbelievable twist, no gun was involved. Apparently, the woman was carrying the bullet in her purse, when it mysteriously exploded.

"She did not have a gun in her purse or on her," Montoursville Deputy Police Chief Jason Bentley told the Williamsport Sun-Gazette. Bentley said the woman, whose name has not been released to the public, "was not aware" she was carrying two or three bullets inside her purse at the time of the accident.

The 56-year-old woman was taken to a local hospital and was eventually discharged. In fact, the woman initially declined medical treatment, only heading to the Williamsport Regional Medical Center after her son reportedly encouraged her to do so.

"Something must of hit the primer of one of the bullets," Bentley said. "The bullet stayed in the purse, but its casing put a hole in the purse and caused a minor leg wound."

Bullets exploding outside of a gun are a rare occurrence but are not entirely unprecedented. In March, a bullet being used as evidence in a court case exploded in a bag and shot 20 feet across a courtroom. No one was hurt in the incident. It was surmised that the bullet exploded after its tip bounced against another bullet tip in the same evidence bag, according to the Telegram & Gazette.

Hopefully that shows primers are a bit squirrelly. It is undesirable for primers to have incidental contact with anything as a sensitive primer can go off with a bump. This is why there are plenty of reports of slamfires, out of battery slamfires, with mechanisms with free floating firing pins.

 

[ngzcaz]

From the inferences I'm drawing from asking a simple question ( which has LONG since morphed into something else ) its becoming apparent that some folks sure have a short fuse. And to compound it further, they take what isn't said and wasn't meant and then running with what they want it to be so they can argue their point of view. Fine.. as long as we understand that the original post was asking whether there was a documented case of chain firing in a 30/30. Please note the 30/30, not a 45/70, .416 Rigby or some other elephant load. That's all.. NO advocating pointy bullets or pressures that will blow up in your face. Nothing that folks aren't comfortable with. NADA.. NOTHING. BUT the nonsense goes on. Apparently some folks just like to post what they " think " they read. Either that or they are in serious need to take a comprehension class somewhere.

As far as reloading, I'll compare it to drag racing. Always looking for a bit extra and I looked to folks that had experience and maybe offered a suggestion or two that might help. I didn't rip the engine apart myself but I did listen, read and learn from the guys that were successful at it. It wasn't be " well, that 13.34 et is the best we can do so forget about tinkering with it anymore. " Is that what got us to et's today that even I thought was impossible 45 years ago ? But I was the guy that behind the wheel ( cars and bikes ) that made the best of what was available. And we kept trying for more...

Brian.. that sounds like a potent load. If its accurate it's a load I'd try if someone would load it for me and if 10 percent over is considered SAFE by ballistics research. I did find Mr. Kelly's note of different powders constant push being a key ingredient in obtaining better results interesting. And please note again, I've never advocated or endorsed any particular load, or bullet shape. I've only asked questions. Folks like you responded to share what you've found. I appreciate it. If that's the best it can be for the present.. great..

Jonhksa... I didn't know I had a " flawed premise " please pm me and tell me what it is. No sense boring all these other folks.

I say this with all sincerity. With the wild rants and assumptions and innuendos I've seen posted, I as a fellow gun owner am thinking twice about the government taking more stringent regulations about who gets a gun. Perhaps physiological tests are in order for some of us.. you know who you are. The same individuals that cut other people off on roadways and engage in road rage incidents. The folks who get drunk, gets in fights and gets behind the wheel and endangers every one of us. The guys who slap their wives or kids around. God help us if you have a CCW permit.. There are those of you that will be quick to jump on this and say I'm for government intervention or gun control. Well, I don't know about the rest of you but I certainly know folks who shouldn't have a weapon. " thinking twice is NOT an endorsement however, it just.. well.. thinking " ......... and yes, I too, can get off point.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I think that probably covers what needs to be said here, and then some.