Handguns down under, an insight

Having just bought my first gun, a Glock, and being really happy with it, I feel for those who can't buy guns. I still think it's bull that I can buy a gun but can't carry it concealed without going through their little permit process. The only thing keeping me from getting a concealed carry permit is the cost, and that's exactly why they have a permitting process, just to add one more hurdle to jump in practicing your constitutional rights as a law-abiding citizen.

I just think it's bogus that I have to pay all kinds of fees to exercise my constitutional rights because the law can't be enforced by going after the people who break it, it must be enforced by watching the people who don't break laws. Makes a whole lot of sense to me.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The way that sounds to me, any beaurocracy that limits in any way a law-abiding citizen's ability to possess at home(keep) or on their person(to bear) violates their constitutional rights. And laws are not enforced by continually monitoring all individuals who want to practice the rights of a law-abiding citizen and therefore "crime prevention" which would violate that persons 4th amendment rights, but by stopping a crime once it has been recognized as having been committed.

All a criminal has to do to carry a gun is put one in his pocket and start walking, since he's already breaking the law and what's one more? I have to shell out $350, go through a class, and fill out more paperwork than the district attorney has for that criminal who's walking around with a gun.
 
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I have only just joined this forum , being an Aussie I have been interested in reading the opinions and points posted by the other Aussies . One post in this thread in particular caught my attention about the horrific Port Arthur massacre .

These 2 links while a lot to read do show just how law abiding Australian citizens where stitched up and demonised .

This link asks a few uncomfortable questions

http://www.nickmaine.info/Documents/pasb.html

This link has some more less confronting info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia
 
Voyager

We dont have anything like your second amendment to give us any rights regarding defending ourselves or gun ownership, so we have no option other than to accept what the govt and the majority of voters (sheeple) who just count on the govt doing the right thing :barf:

Jacko, welcome mate.... good onya for gettin' in amongst it :D

So, I haven't looked at your link yet, but seems to me you also know Martin Bryant was set up by little johnnies mob? The funny thing is no one has ever heard of Martin since he was incarcerated all those moons ago? The poor bugga might even be dead already, no one says a word.... like I said, I feel so sorry for him, copping the blame for something he had sweet f/a to do with.... IMO, his only crime was being a bit simple :(

Oh well, 8 years until the freedom of information should be allowed to come out.... :D better stock up on bog rolls, coz the poop will be hitting the fan then :eek::D

Sort of like the story of the Hurricane (Bob Dylan)
 
More gun crime in Oz

Just to prove what a waste of time all the heavy gun control is in Oz, Just yesterday, a poor truckie (trucker) was shot by a stray bullet (in the head... how bad was his luck!)

He was actually from Canberra, my suburb actually (Macgregor) while driving his semi past a KFC in Sydney, where a gunfight was in process, he copped a stray and was killed :eek:

The key to gun control is common sense & training.... not just removing (trying to) guns from the population.

Guns exist! they wont go away..... No amount of laws/legislation etc will help, because criminals are criminals... they don't obey laws!:barf:
 
The sickening shame of all this is that the ANZACS fought so hard and so well in so many wars over the last 100 years, and as has been justly observed of U.S. troops fighting in European conflicts, the ANZACS required only enough of that liberated land to bury their dead.
When they showed up, their enemies knew they were in trouble, kinda like the reaction inspired by the best of our own troops.

Something not right about any of this--our troops fought to defend freedoms we take for granted here. Seems like our brothers down under deserve more of the same.
 
Dingo,

I've read this entire thread from start to finish. I think I have a solution - Move to the United States.:)
 
Its winter here now... plenty of clothes. (the world is safe) WHEW!
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You sure? Cause America's vision of Aussies is as tanned, semi nudes with a surf board permanently attached to your feet or buckskin clad outbackers skinning crocodilian whilst guzzling a Foster's. How could so many of us by so wrong for so long? :D
 
Although I'm not allowed to carry or to use any firearm as a self defence weapon, I have to admit that there hasn't been any time in my life in this country that I would have felt safer had I been carrying. I can't imagine living anywhere that I didn't feel safe unless I had a handgun in my pocket. I've never had anyone pull a weapon on me that I didn't just laugh at, and I was never concerned that the guy screaming at me from another car might pull a gun on me. I'm not overly bothered by the restrictions personally. I guess that might make me a bit unpopular around these parts.
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I once heard a very wise man explain why he carried everyday, this is what he said: Do you wear a seatbelt when you ride in a car? What if I told you that you would actually need that seat belt today, would you still ride in the car? I carry a gun for the same reason, if I felt that I needed to use it I would stay home. I carry so if I ever actually need it, I will have it ready.
 
In the Navy, . . . we docked at Brisbane (first American warship since WW2) back in 1968.

I took leave, . . . hit the Gold Coast for 5 days.

Met an absolute doll, . . . whewwwww, . . . from Dubbo, NSW, . . . began to seriously consider relocating to down under. Marguerite, . . . Marguerite, . . . ahhhhhh, . . . . . . . . . but I digress.

I have never questioned fate, but I would have brought the standard American thought pattern "from my cold, dead hands" to your fair land, . . . and I can see easily that it would not have gone well for me.

Anyway, . . . I don't know any prescription that would change your native attitude, . . . but up here, . . . we find a lot of our conservatives(gun lovers by and large), . . . were liberals (gun haters by and large), . . . until they were mugged, robbed, and/or raped.

Somehow, . . . 1 liberal + 1 mugging, roobery, and/or rape generally = 1 conservative who is hell bent on not letting it happen again, . . . mostly by becoming a gun lover. We even have a congress person in our state that now has a concealed carry permit, . . . because of that scenario.

Anyway, . . . good hearing from down under, . . . be safe, . . . may God bless,
Dwight
 
A Kiwi (New Zealander)here.

aged about 15 or 16 I sat a ten minute gun test with the police and went out and bought a .22. That was to go with the .410 and 12 gauge I already had. If I wanted to I could have bought a .50BMG.

But... Like Australia handguns are a different story. I'm five months through my six months probationary period. Sure I bought a handgun a few months ago but a licensed shooter looks after it and brings it to the range each Sunday for me. In the six months I need to attend the range at least 12 times. Shoot in at least 6 competions. Sit a written test of about 20 multi choice questions (easy questions). Get the OK from the club that I know how to safely handle a handgun and that I'm of good character :eek: Then the police do a minor check on me (no criminal convictions). Then.... I get my pistol license to use a pistol at a gun range. I can practice dry firing and clean it at home, but no pointing it at neighbours :rolleyes:

As far as self defence goes - do not use the pistol!!! If you use a shotgun, sure you will be in trouble, but pistols really freak people out around here. I don't know why because they are pretty pathetic compaired with a 870 type shotgun loaded with buckshot. You can use a gun in self defense if you (and the persons in the jury when you are tried in court) believe that your life was in danger.

We had a case where a guy on meth tried to rob a gun shop (why a gun shop???) armed with a machete. The gunshop owner after a few warnings shot him and the police took him to court on firearms charges. luckily he was found inocent in a jury trial.

Just for your interests sake; a few years ago statistics showed we are the second most violent country in the western world. Just behind South Africa. So comparitively speaking you Americans need to relax more. We sure do.
 
Dingoboyx, you should hear some of the nonsense our cousins prattle on about Canadian laws. No handguns being one. Our laws are stupid and designed to discourage new shooters, in both time and money, but they're not as stupid as your govenment's laws.
There's not much work here, but you'd be welcome.
 
Dingoboyx,that was quite a read.

Use your guns or lose them.

That's quite a lot of mandatory shooting just to keep a gun in your possession.

And very sad to read that just like here in the U.S., a legally owned handgun in a citizens hands that justifiable saves his and many others lives mean that he or she is viewed as a criminal that must prove they did not act in a criminal manner.

I just urge you to continue to do all that your law requires and to fight the good fight at chipping away at Australia's many handgun and long gun restrictions.

You never know what can happen-it only takes one great Aussie to get in your government and just stop all that restrictive nonsense.

Good Day,Mate.
 
Thanks BNR

Yup, the mandatory shootin' bit is terrible..... I am forced.... against my will, by my government..... to go to the range and shoot a shootload of guns.... I repeat, against my will.... it is terrible..... but, alas.... if I have to :D

And when I tell SWMBO I am off to the range and she 'kicks up a stink'.... I just say, "sorry, the govt. has ordered me to shoot my guns.... er, BTW, can I borrow some money for ammo?" hehehehehehe :D (works every time)

I guess it is good in a way, that people are such sheeple..... it is 'common knowledge' that you can't have HG's in Oz (in the sheeples eyes) what is not common knowledge is that you actually can have HG's, if you follow the rules..... THAT, I am happy about :D

Life is good....
 
The only way I can see 'subjects' of a country decide they need a Bill of Rights for each individual IS TO REBEL. Only by that method can they appreciate freedom. Otherwise the rights were just to easy to get, and thus will be easy to lose.

What most Americans do not see is virtually the rest of the world is not like the U.S. The concept of an individual Bill of Rights just does not exist in most places. Indeed, the idea among the people there is very different as for what freedom means.

That is why strict gun control is so prevalent around the world. It's a 'privilege' as the author of this thread said, not a RIGHT, at least as viewed by the rest of the world.

Government is about power. It always has been. And it's a tendency of government to want to keep power and thus keep control. Keeping weapons from the population is a form of control. It's a staple of all authoritarian counties and works well in all totalitarian ones. Very well. Examples are just to numerous to fully list. Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Mexico, etc… And yes, the UK, Germany, and most every country, except the United States.

The only real remedy is a rebellion to overthrow such and a Bill of Rights so as to keep the citizens from being 'subjects'.

And thus, the U.N. is something we need to be out of. For if we play their game then we will become 'subjects' and not free people of a free country.
 
All revolutions, successful and unsuccessful, increase the power of government. Think about that the next time you feel like dumping tea in the harbor.

And concerning lawsuits, in most places in the United States when a policeman shoots someone, they are immediately placed on administrative leave. They are personally probably immune from lawsuit liability, but if said policeman is involved in another shooting incident, they are quite likely to be found another position not on the street. In other words, it's just as much trouble when a law enforcement individual has to draw his weapon.
 
Requiring people to join gun clubs and shoot competitively sounds like a fantastic way to make guns OK for well-to-do white folks, and not OK for impoverished Aborigines.

There, I said it.

-T
 
Being made to jump through hoops, turn up at the club and shoot a number of times, answer arms code tests is a good way for the clubs to weed out the psycos and gangstas. You speed a lot of time talking to club commitee people and they work out if you are a genuine pistol target shooter or the sorta dude who wants to get a pistol for bank holdups.

I'd rather have it like the US, and a few countries in Europe, but at least I can own and shoot one.
 
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