Handgun for brown-bear defense any real experience?
- Thread starter Para Bellum
- Start date
!!! FirstFreedom
Moderator
Just add a 'C' to the front, and that will explain it.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Socrates-
Impressive collection. I have to be honest, though. My little 4" 500 Linebaugh absolutely destroyed my handgun shooting....took me nearly two years to relearn to shoot without occasional flinch. I'm now up to a 44 Mag with Garrett Hard Casts; I'd carry the Linebaugh in bear country without hesitation; but I'm not about to shoot it recreationally again.
All that said, and given the fact that you obviously know your big bores, please: more on the shooting experience with that monster .510 Linebaugh Maximum. Other than a shooting glove, are there any tricks to handling the recoil?
Rich
Impressive collection. I have to be honest, though. My little 4" 500 Linebaugh absolutely destroyed my handgun shooting....took me nearly two years to relearn to shoot without occasional flinch. I'm now up to a 44 Mag with Garrett Hard Casts; I'd carry the Linebaugh in bear country without hesitation; but I'm not about to shoot it recreationally again.
All that said, and given the fact that you obviously know your big bores, please: more on the shooting experience with that monster .510 Linebaugh Maximum. Other than a shooting glove, are there any tricks to handling the recoil?
Rich
Rich - the same thing happened to me when I fired a non-ported .454 Casull. My wrists were shot after that and even a full powered .44 Magnum felt mild in comparison. Porting helps but if I'd also contact the ATF to affix a shoulder stock because I'd rather be a sissy with good wrists than a macho man who couldn't hold a pencil after shooting a hand cannon.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
44 Mag revolver and 50 Desert Eagle
The 50 is easier to shoot then the 44 Mag. revolver.
Anyone wanting a pretty good caliber, the gun helps with the recoil. I highly recommend it.
I have shot the DE, they are easy on the wrist, but hard on the pocket book
HQ
The 50 is easier to shoot then the 44 Mag. revolver.
Anyone wanting a pretty good caliber, the gun helps with the recoil. I highly recommend it.
I have shot the DE, they are easy on the wrist, but hard on the pocket book
HQ
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I admit to little experience with a Raging Bull in .454 Casull. However, I found that the Weaver Stance, into which I'd reflexively go in a panic situation, makes that revolver quite easy to shoot rapidly and accurately. The owner, who shoots hot loads on a regular basis, can shoot IPSC-speed double-taps to target center and 3" to 4" spread at ten to fifteen yards. IOW, achievable.
Art
Art
While I do not think that the theory of deep penetration of a 9mm on a bear would be sufficient to defend my family, nor myself, if you must do it I don't think it will make that much of a difference over a larger caliber handgun. Because by the time you hear or see the bear charging through the woods at you, identify it as a threat and not a random animal running away from you because you startled it, draw your handgun and are able to fire(if you are able to do ANYTHING other than deficate), the bear will be on top of you. Just stick the gun down his throat and give him a little heartburn before you're digested. Maybe you will distract the bear long enough for a member of your family to run and get a real gun.
castnblast
New member
I have never been in bear country but I used to manage an indoor shooting range, and had a guy claim his 9mm was unloaded...after pointing it at me
I asked him to point it away and open the chamber...It went off, and richocheted off the GLASS counter and went into the wall. No joke. Personally, I carry a 44 mag when out hunting...We have ferral hog and cougar. And If I were to go to Alaska, I wouldn't take anything less than a 454 casul or a S&W 50. The 50 is my top choice for this purpose, and was what the gun was designed for.
I asked him to point it away and open the chamber...It went off, and richocheted off the GLASS counter and went into the wall. No joke. Personally, I carry a 44 mag when out hunting...We have ferral hog and cougar. And If I were to go to Alaska, I wouldn't take anything less than a 454 casul or a S&W 50. The 50 is my top choice for this purpose, and was what the gun was designed for.Harley Quinn
Moderator
castnblast
That is very entertaining information.
Many rounds superior to the nine in power, blah blah blah. But if you are restricted to that round (as the original poster is) Then what?
I believe it is moot, and always will be.
I always felt that if I was to jump out of an airplne with an extension cord I would never get to the ground (because they are always catching onto something)
Just my last thought on this subject.
HQ
That is very entertaining information.
Many rounds superior to the nine in power, blah blah blah. But if you are restricted to that round (as the original poster is) Then what?
I believe it is moot, and always will be.
I always felt that if I was to jump out of an airplne with an extension cord I would never get to the ground (because they are always catching onto something)
Just my last thought on this subject.
HQ
Death from Afar
New member
Very interesting thread.
You Americans have some SERIOUS wheelguns!
Wouldnt a short barrel pump gun be a better choice all the same? It would weigh about the same. and if you stoked it full of buckshot you could deal to any bear, and any one playing rap in the woods.
You Americans have some SERIOUS wheelguns!
Wouldnt a short barrel pump gun be a better choice all the same? It would weigh about the same. and if you stoked it full of buckshot you could deal to any bear, and any one playing rap in the woods.
Welcome to America. We have laws that make it very difficult to protect yourself. 3./4's of Kalifornia won't issue concealed weapons permits. If you are attacked, defend yourself, you can pretty much count on loosing the gun, and maybe your right to own, for 3 years. It's called probation, since you would be carrying the gun illegally, despite a justified self-defense shooting. Bears, most of the time, have more rights then we do, or, a federal law that says carrying a gun in a Federal park is illegal, much less using it to defend yourself, or love ones.
I said all that to point out that the minimum length for a shotgun is at least 16" IIRC, and, it maybe 18.
You roll your dice, and you take your chances. Each gets to pick the chips they bring to the table.
S
I said all that to point out that the minimum length for a shotgun is at least 16" IIRC, and, it maybe 18.
You roll your dice, and you take your chances. Each gets to pick the chips they bring to the table.
S
Death from Afar
New member
Bizarre.
I cant get my head round some of your gun laws. As I understand it , in some states, you can happilly go and buy an AR 15- but in California you cant. And if you are in a place that had things with teeth that want to bite you, you cant pack firepower to protect yourself. I would have thought that in a place with bears you would be able to protect yourself from them, let alone mountain lions, snakes etc etc etc.
I cant get my head round some of your gun laws. As I understand it , in some states, you can happilly go and buy an AR 15- but in California you cant. And if you are in a place that had things with teeth that want to bite you, you cant pack firepower to protect yourself. I would have thought that in a place with bears you would be able to protect yourself from them, let alone mountain lions, snakes etc etc etc.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
Bears in Tahoe CA
Last week I was in Tahoe CA. Lots of second generation bears (garbage can)
Momma trains um and they can't go to the wild. They are pretty kicked back.
Last week they had an article about this young bear that climbed into a 1964 Buick Skylark Convertable. Picture shows him in the front seat behind the wheel.
He had eaten a pizza and drank a cup of Jack Daniels, finished a drink of vodka and some mix and a beer. It was a small cub.
He was pretty mello from the booze. Should of booked him 647f PC. Like they did half of the under age kids there that week.
No harm done to the car, $5000.00 Paint job.
It was the talk of the town.
If someone would have shot it they would be in deep trouble.
Reminded me of the picture of Pres. T. R. don't shoot that cub.
Edit:
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/20060704/NEWS/107040027&SearchID=73250273811134
HQ
Last week I was in Tahoe CA. Lots of second generation bears (garbage can)
Momma trains um and they can't go to the wild. They are pretty kicked back.
Last week they had an article about this young bear that climbed into a 1964 Buick Skylark Convertable. Picture shows him in the front seat behind the wheel.
He had eaten a pizza and drank a cup of Jack Daniels, finished a drink of vodka and some mix and a beer. It was a small cub.
He was pretty mello from the booze. Should of booked him 647f PC. Like they did half of the under age kids there that week.
No harm done to the car, $5000.00 Paint job.
It was the talk of the town.If someone would have shot it they would be in deep trouble.
Reminded me of the picture of Pres. T. R. don't shoot that cub.
Edit:
http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/20060704/NEWS/107040027&SearchID=73250273811134
HQ
I haven't read the entire thread so if someone has recommended the following, mea culpa.
Please take the time to read "Bear Encounter Survival Guide" by James Gary Shelton.
Gary is a former grizzly bear hunting guide who lives in Bella Coola, British Columbia, Canada, home to some of the highest density brown bear populations in the world.
For many years Gary has been researching bear attacks and documenting the same. He also gives training courses for outdoor field workers such as loggers, foresters, surveyors, geologists etc.
Much of his book is about understanding and interpreting bear behavior and bear habitat in the field. The book is very practical and is a must read for most BC field workers.
Shelton recommends .44 magnum handguns and above for brown bear, if and only if you have trained enough to be extremely proficient with it. Otherwise for brown bears, the minimum long gun calibre is .338 mag.
Google James Gary Shelton and you may be able to find a source for his books.
Please take the time to read "Bear Encounter Survival Guide" by James Gary Shelton.
Gary is a former grizzly bear hunting guide who lives in Bella Coola, British Columbia, Canada, home to some of the highest density brown bear populations in the world.
For many years Gary has been researching bear attacks and documenting the same. He also gives training courses for outdoor field workers such as loggers, foresters, surveyors, geologists etc.
Much of his book is about understanding and interpreting bear behavior and bear habitat in the field. The book is very practical and is a must read for most BC field workers.
Shelton recommends .44 magnum handguns and above for brown bear, if and only if you have trained enough to be extremely proficient with it. Otherwise for brown bears, the minimum long gun calibre is .338 mag.
Google James Gary Shelton and you may be able to find a source for his books.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
Read Books
That would be to reasonable to do. We would then be without the ability to disagree and squabble and make fun of others with different ideas, that are not exactly like our own.
I have read so many books that someone wrote that have helped me make decisions, based on what I disagree with
Seriously though, thanks for the tip I will check it out and may edit, if I find something interesting
HQ
That would be to reasonable to do. We would then be without the ability to disagree and squabble and make fun of others with different ideas, that are not exactly like our own.
I have read so many books that someone wrote that have helped me make decisions, based on what I disagree with
Seriously though, thanks for the tip I will check it out and may edit, if I find something interesting
HQ
Oregongundude
New member
Get somewhere the bear can't get to you a high rock, or tree.
Empty a couple 17 round magazines into it's body and it's will bleed to death in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour at the most from 33 rounds in the body, using ball ammo from anything from a 9mm or above. Get a lucky shot through the heart and it will drop dead in a hurry. The point is get somewhere where it can't get to you and keep pumping rounds into it.
I have seen 4 bears in the wild hunting and I've spooked a couple mountain lions hunting in the Oregon Mountains and not one of the animals, big cat, or bears has wanted anything to do with me and has headed in a different direction in a hurry. I would think if a bear was willing to attack you it must have a reason most wild animal don't like human and try to avoid us at all cost. Some hungry big cats will attack on occasion, but I have never been concerned with Mountain lion unless there stalking me, when I surprise them in the woods they will leave in a hurry. Of course, I would fire upon them with my .308 first instead of a handgun and I would recomend a high powered rifle over any handgun in the wild. Most of time for Elk, or Deer it's a one shot affair with my rifle. Having to fire multiple handgun rounds at any animal is usually a last gasp effort at self defense and survival.
.308 high powered rifle balistics :Hornady 155-gr. TAP FPD FPS :2831 Energy/LBS 2760
My .308 will pentrate a bear's head I will take that to the bank.
Empty a couple 17 round magazines into it's body and it's will bleed to death in a matter of minutes, maybe an hour at the most from 33 rounds in the body, using ball ammo from anything from a 9mm or above. Get a lucky shot through the heart and it will drop dead in a hurry. The point is get somewhere where it can't get to you and keep pumping rounds into it.
I have seen 4 bears in the wild hunting and I've spooked a couple mountain lions hunting in the Oregon Mountains and not one of the animals, big cat, or bears has wanted anything to do with me and has headed in a different direction in a hurry. I would think if a bear was willing to attack you it must have a reason most wild animal don't like human and try to avoid us at all cost. Some hungry big cats will attack on occasion, but I have never been concerned with Mountain lion unless there stalking me, when I surprise them in the woods they will leave in a hurry. Of course, I would fire upon them with my .308 first instead of a handgun and I would recomend a high powered rifle over any handgun in the wild. Most of time for Elk, or Deer it's a one shot affair with my rifle. Having to fire multiple handgun rounds at any animal is usually a last gasp effort at self defense and survival.
.308 high powered rifle balistics :Hornady 155-gr. TAP FPD FPS :2831 Energy/LBS 2760
My .308 will pentrate a bear's head I will take that to the bank.