Handcuffs or Zip Ties?

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I don't want to get anywhere near the sleazebag either. Not sure exactly what I would do but I can say that I certainly would prefer not to do that. That said, I wonder why nobody has mentioned duct tape yet.
 
I have half a dozen pair of cuffs here... we tried them on pigs and hogs... they can and do "strip" out in battle... Hogs are some tuff bum-bishes! I have duct-taped more hogs than cuffed and not a one got loose! Duct tape requires being too close of a proximity to a low life single cell life form than I plan to be! Once again in florida as well as many states yer butt is grass if he only gets charged with a misdemeanor or "less than violent" felony! Once inside MY home he can be shot but not necessarily bound! We got to live by the hand we are dealt and the laws we must adhere to! I will not allow any of my family members within 6 feet of his furthest extremity... Sorry fer the invader but facts is facts and we will not engage him in martial arts or any form of hand to hand! I done said it they get one chance to belly up and count crumbs on the carpet! That is all! If they survive until the cops arrive it is through full compliance on their part and I will not impede upon their opportunity to obey! But OBEY, THEY MUST to every letter of MY demands as it is my home they were detained in!
Brent
 
You clearly have neither law nor law enforcement training... yet you seem somehow uninhibitated from dispensing your own advice which has no basis in either legal theories or law enforcement tactical techniques.
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Hmmmm...all that and still no answer to my original question.
 
Well, I read some... I am neither judge nor jury... I am the guy that signs the walking papers so they can face the JUDGE! I am being a REALLY nice guy giving the BG a chance to count crumbs since I have no legal ramifications as to frontal COM shot or Back of COM! Once in my home i have every right to feel threatened... Florida law says if brazen enough to enter an occupied dwelling they are likely to to be a threat to life limb and liberty... or some such definition!
KMA he has one chance and one only to grab floor... any argument, discussion or begging is too dern late on his part... I am pretty much too nice to offer that much! But I am a softy! Man I wish I was cold and ruthless as Rooster Cogburn! Here on the net i got time to say... "I said do as yer told and you live" in the real life scheme of things i limit conversation to "ON YER KNEES HANDS CLASPED (dunno what that is) Mix up yer fingers and belly flop... Cross yer ankles and raise yer feet... That is all i don't care if it takes 33 days and 40 nights for LEO if you move I get to take a break! Am I a cold hearted SOB NOPE! I just am doing my best to detain a VIOLENT FELONY SUSPECT without making a mess on the carpet.... He made the choice to be a bum ass crook and I made the choice to make my home OFF LIMITS!
Hang me if you must!
Brent
 
Well, in North Carolina, you can detain but not arrest, unless requested or required by a law enforcement officer. See here: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_15A/GS_15A-404.html

And for the fun of it, in California (See section 637):
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=833-851.90

I believe every state except NC permits citizen's arrest. You can of course be sued or worse, if it is false, so you better have the probable cause to make the arrest. You don't have the same legal protections as the police and there are plenty of liabilities so be prepared. Know the difference between detain and arrest.

If you really care about the next victim go join the police force. It is not like it is hard to get in.
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I agree with the first half, but the second half strikes a nerve. I could have done a number of things with my Master's Degree, but chose to try out for one of the local Police Departments. It was far from easy to get into. I was one of 25 to get into my class, with around 450 applicants. I'm sure you meant it well, but it didn't come across that way, to me.
 
I agree with the first half, but the second half strikes a nerve. I could have done a number of things with my Master's Degree, but chose to try out for one of the local Police Departments. It was far from easy to get into.
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Sorry if I offended but as an ex-LEO I have been appalled at how low the bar has been lowered for entrance to police service. Most deptartments are begging for people with only two year degrees (not even law related) to join.

I might have stuck around and used my master's degree in law enforcement but the pay was just not good enough to go out and put my life on the line.
 
Somehow I have a hard time establishing in my mind exactly how someone that you'd need to hold a gun on and would ponder putting a bullet through seconds before all the sudden becomes safe enough to let walk. I can understand letting a rattlesnake slither away because I came to its world, but something coming to me just doesn't sit well. And yes, someone attacking me becomes an "it" as far as I'm concerned.
 
Just to clarify the legal aspect of cuffing someone who has broken into your home, at least for California residents, there are five laws that go together to allow a citizen's arrest:

CPC 834. An arrest is taking a person into custody, in a case and in the manner authorized by law. An arrest may be made by a peace officer or by a private person.

CPC 835. An arrest is made by an actual restraint of the person, or by submission to the custody of an officer. The person arrested may be subjected to such restraint as is reasonable for his arrest and detention.

CPC 837. A private person may arrest another:
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

CPC 841. The person making the arrest must inform the person to be arrested of the intention to arrest him, of the cause of the arrest, and the authority to make it, except when the person making the arrest has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested is actually engaged in the commission of or an attempt to commit an offense, or the person to be arrested is pursued immediately after its commission, or after an escape.
The person making the arrest must, on request of the person he is arresting, inform the latter of the offense for which he is being arrested.

CPC 847. (a) A private person who has arrested another for the
commission of a public offense must, without unnecessary delay, take the person arrested before a magistrate, or deliver him or her to a peace officer.
(b) There shall be no civil liability on the part of, and no cause of action shall arise against, any peace officer or federal criminal investigator or law enforcement officer described in subdivision (a) or (d) of Section 830.8, acting within the scope of his or her authority, for false arrest or false imprisonment arising out of any arrest under any of the following circumstances:
(1) The arrest was lawful, or the peace officer, at the time of the arrest, had reasonable cause to believe the arrest was lawful.
(2) The arrest was made pursuant to a charge made, upon reasonable cause, of the commission of a felony by the person to be arrested.
(3) The arrest was made pursuant to the requirements of Section 142, 837, 838, or 839.
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Just to ensure that everyone understands that this is, in fact, a Felony we are talking about here:

CPC 459. Every person who enters any house, room, apartment, tenement, shop, warehouse, store, mill, barn, stable, outhouse or other building, tent, vessel, as defined in Section 21 of the Harbors and Navigation Code, floating home, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 18075.55 of the Health and Safety Code, railroad car, locked or sealed cargo container, whether or not mounted on a vehicle, trailer coach, as defined in Section 635 of the Vehicle Code, any house car, as defined in Section 362 of the Vehicle Code, inhabited camper, as defined in Section 243 of the Vehicle Code, vehicle as defined by the Vehicle Code, when the doors are locked, aircraft as defined by Section 21012 of the Public Utilities Code, or mine or any underground portion thereof, with intent to commit grand or petit larceny or any felony is guilty of burglary. As used in this chapter, "inhabited" means currently being used for dwelling purposes, whether occupied or not. A house, trailer, vessel designed for habitation, or portion of a building is currently being used for dwelling purposes if, at the time of the burglary, it was not occupied solely because a natural or other disaster caused the occupants to leave the premises.

CPC 460. (a) Every burglary of an inhabited dwelling house, vessel, as defined in the Harbors and Navigation Code, which is inhabited and designed for habitation, floating home, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 18075.55 of the Health and Safety Code, or trailer coach, as defined by the Vehicle Code, or the inhabited portion of any other building, is burglary of the first degree.

CPC 461. Burglary is punishable as follows:
1. Burglary in the first degree: by imprisonment in the state prison for two, four, or six years.
2. Burglary in the second degree: by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison.
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BUT, I agree with most of the posters that attempting to cuff someone is an idiotic thing to do. Detain them if you can, but don't put yourself into more risk by approaching them. In the academy we were taught that you don't approach a felony suspect until you have a cover officer. If the professionals won't do it alone... you certainly shouldn't!
 
The way i feel about it is, If you wanna act like a cop, go be a cop. trying to arrest somone in your home will put you in more legal hot water than its worth.

I agree with the eariler posters that said order the BG to drop his wallet and then let him go.
 
Since we actually had a warm sunny day here I just got back from riding with my business partner. We stopped to eat at the end and I asked him about the handcuffing thing since he is (as I have mentioned on here before) a lawyer.

He said in both Oregon and Washington a person performing a "citizens arrest" can cuff someone legally. He said if the person is later not charged with a crime you could be charged with false arrest or felony kidnapping. He said that is not a big concern if they are in your house though. He said the biggest concern would be the criminal suing you for injury. All he would have to do would be to say you injured him either during the process of cuffing him or by improperly applying the restraints. Since you are not an LEO you would not be protected by the same laws they are and would be wide open to civil prosecution.

He also added it would not take a great lawyer to convince a jury that an untrained civilian had no place putting restraints on another individual and making it seem very possible that the injuries could be real.

Sounds like too much risk to me even if it wasn't so dangerous to be trying it in the first place.
 
I don't know what to say about this thread, but it's kept me busy for awhile.

No, come to think of it, I do know what to say. It's over. Some of you will be receiving emails & PMs.
 
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