Handcuffs or Zip Ties?

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and unless you are very certain about your ability to make a citizens arrest (which usually does not allow restraint or holding someone at gunpoint)
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Ummm, that's wrong and just plain dumb. If you are legally authorized to make a citizen's arrest (which usually means you have either witnessed a felony or witnessed a "breach of the peace") you are authorized to arrest them. Restraining them, either with commands at gunpoint or with cuffs, is the "arrest" part of citizen's arrest.

That being said, it takes a bit of training to properly use handcuffs and no untrained person should consider it. If you've been trained as a LEO or military type, you'd already know the answers to these questions. In other words, if you have to ask, forget the handcuffs or flexicuffs.
 
Ummm, that's wrong and just plain dumb. If you are legally authorized to make a citizen's arrest (which usually means you have either witnessed a felony or witnessed a "breach of the peace") you are authorized to arrest them. Restraining them, either with commands at gunpoint or with cuffs, is the "arrest" part of citizen's arrest.
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You might want to go talk to a lawyer about that. In a whole lot of places it is just not the case.

In fact you can usually go to your local police department and find a guide to how to make a citizen's arrest. They usually include...

1. Notify police upon observing a crime.

2. Provide police with information to assist in identifying the violator.

3. Sign the complaint form. (After this, most cases are concluded without your further involvement.)

4. Appear in court when requested by the District Attorney's Office.

and they will usually include warnings such as...

"When you sign or make a complaint against someone for an infraction of the law, you are in affect "arresting" them...I cannot recommend that you try and "arrest" someone by restraining them physically, as you may be subject to liability if you do that. Work within the system by filing your charge with a police department or States Attorney with jurisdiction."

This is not a "Rambo" situation and treating it as such can cost you a great deal.
 
I am a lawyer. Thanks.

The process you describe is not making a citizen's arrest, it's filing a citizen's complaint. Some states allow private citizens to file the complaint, some require the LEO or prosecutor to conduct an independent investigation. It's totally independent of the concept of citizens arrest.
 
I am a lawyer. Thanks.

That's not making a citizen's arrest, that's filing a citizen's complaint.
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If you truely are a lawyer then you know better.

Since you are saying you are a lawyer, and I assume you are a criminal prosecutor since you understand the citizen's arrest codes so well, why don't you recite to me and yourself a list of possible charges a person could face for restraining another citizen or holding them at gunpoint...just for the heck of it. Oh, and cite some precedent.

I think if you do so honestly you will realize the pitfalls of a citizen's arrest.

Here is a hint...look up charges of kidnapping, false imprisonment, coercion, assualt, use of undo force, improper use of force or restraint, etc related to citizens arrests.
 
Neither. Bad idea to get anywhere near a BG especially by yourself. Hold at gunpoint until the cops arrive.
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This is the best answer you received in the preceding posts. One more thing...a shoestring rapidly rubbed back & forth against a nylon zip tie will burn right through it in a short time. Most BG's are aware of this. Keep him muzzled until the cops get there...
 
I'd sooner keep him covered until other LEOs arrive to back up and secure the scene.
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All of you keep sayint that as if the cops are going to come anytime soon.. better you get a cold drink..

also. What if you got the buglar at gunpoint, command him to sit and whatever, then u wait for 5 minutes...
then


The perp says, U know what ? I am LEAVING. I am unarmed and you cannot shoot me I am running away from you. You cannot shoot me because I am running away,

he then gets up, and slowly walks towards the door, opens it and leaves...

So whats the point of the holding at gunpoint ?

"a fleeing felon is at no risk to you so you cant shoot"

So do tell...
 
I have been waiting for someone to say they would command the BG place his wallet on the floor and order him to leave or be shot....or even to toss the BG a pen and paper and have him write down his name and address! That the police would know just who to go look for.

Me, I would just as soon as have the BG vacate my domicile post haste before he stinks up the place instead of cuffing him. Any LEO will tell you that handcuffing a suspect is a very dangerous process.
 
Me, I would just as soon as have the BG vacate my domicile post haste before he stinks up the place instead of cuffing him. Any LEO will tell you that handcuffing a suspect is a very dangerous process.
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The reason for that is you have this weird problem of not being an LEO wanna-be or an internet Rambo. You really need to work on that. :)
 
Handcuffs can be broken as well. And misuse of them can lead to a lot more headaches. Once you put someone in handcuffs, their safety becomes YOUR responsibility. This does not apply to LE, but to civilians. Means you cannot harm them, and you must prevent them from being harmed while they are cuffed.

Putting cuffs on improperly can cause severe nerve damage to the individual cuffed. You can be sued for it. You can also be charged with 'wrongful arrest'.

On top of all that, handcuffing is NOT easy, especially if the person resists. It can be quite a struggle if you are alone and trying to handcuff someone, hold a gun on them, and they dont want to comply.
 
+++100 to all the posts about legal ramifications. Basically, if an unarmed bad guy tries to flee and you restrain him in any way, then you are at fault. Even if all the criteria are met you are probably still going to face a large civil suit that could cost tens of thousands of dollars to defend against. If the guy is high or whatever and wants to do nothing but harm to you or somene close then restraint is the only option other than shooting him. But like it has been said. Handcuffing is very dangerous. When I was working for the government, an employee lost it, don't know why, but started flipping desks and threatening other employees. It took two guards, myself and another employee to get the guy in cuffs. I would not want to attempt it in a dark bedroom, by myself, half awake, with anyone else I cared about in the room. My first priority is to protect myself and my loved ones... not to be a hero. The police academy is right up the street if I ever wanted to be that guy.
 
If He Leaves, He Leaves...

So, while you're holding him for the police, so what if he does decide to get up slowly and leave? If this is what he really does, your problem is over. The goal was never to shoot him, merely to get him to stop doing whatever he was doing in your house. If he becomes a threat while leaving (does something other than leave directly), that will provide justification for further action - problem is over in this case too. So what's the big conflict?
 
Why in the world would you want to keep this guy around? IMO, the goal is to get the BG to go away, not keep him around. Cuffing him up puts you in more danger, standing around with the gun pointed at him puts you in more danger. Tell him to go away.
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Well I happen to actually care about the BGs next victims, and the fact that they probably are not armed like me. You can do what you want, but I could not live with myself for pushing a killer on someone else because I just care about me.
 
Well I happen to actually care about the BGs next victims, and the fact that they probably are not armed like me. You can do what you want, but I could not live with myself for pushing a killer on someone else because I just care about me.
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A. Being a burglar and being a killer are too totally different things.

B. With overcrowded prisons, unless he has a firearm or a large amount of drugs on him he will most likely be right back on the street in the morning.

C. All you have accomplished is adding additional risk to a situation and opened yourself up to personal liability.

If you really care about the next victim go join the police force. It is not like it is hard to get in.
 
BRAVO starcream02, thats right. For too long people think safety and criminality is someone else's problem. or its the responsibility of the police. but WE AS A Society, is responsible. I am certain there are more people and there are scum, and if we all deal with the scum properly the FIRST time, there wont be any crime. It is our duty as citizens to be sure the criminals DO NOT get away with crime.
 
PLAYBOY !

A. Being a burglar and being a killer are too totally different things.

B. With overcrowded prisons, unless he has a firearm or a large amount of drugs on him he will most likely be right back on the street in the morning.

C. All you have accomplished is adding additional risk to a situation and opened yourself up to personal liability.

If you really care about the next victim go join the police force. It is not like it is hard to get in.
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I cant believe I am hearing this from YOU ! what? its not your problem ? System dont work ? personal liability risk ? JOIN THE POLICE :eek: ?

Do you want a better world ? or do you just want to not have to be bothered for your 80 year stay on this earth ?

Time to bring out the ball gag ! Someone is being naughty ! :rolleyes:
 
Shootemdown wrote:
BRAVO starcream02, thats right. For too long people think safety and criminality is someone else's problem. or its the responsibility of the police. but WE AS A Society, is responsible. I am certain there are more people and there are scum, and if we all deal with the scum properly the FIRST time, there wont be any crime. It is our duty as citizens to be sure the criminals DO NOT get away with crime.
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I see. Your saying that anyone, at anytime, when they think or feel even the slightest bit threatened, is now judge, jury, and executioner?
 
Neither. Bad idea to get anywhere near a BG especially by yourself. Hold at gunpoint until the cops arrive.
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Best advice. With a firearm and cell phone nearby, I have no reason to worry about cuffs or ties. Leave that up to the LEO pros.
 
Do you want a better world ? or do you just want to not have to be bothered for your 80 year stay on this earth ?
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Sorry, but I see a big difference between being a responsible citizen being a "Rambo wanna-be" on an internet forum.
 
If you truely are a lawyer then you know better.Since you are saying you are a lawyer, and I assume you are a criminal prosecutor since you understand the citizen's arrest codes so well,
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Uh oh. Internet knowitall gets his feelings hurt after confusing 4000 posts as the same as higher education. You gave bad advice, and I corrected it. Get over. The list of "charges a person could face for restraining another" is hardly less long than the list of charges a person could face for pulling the gun in the first place. If you are justified, you are justified. If you want to see what the law is in your state, call an attorney in your area. I simply don't have the time to research all 50 states and "cite precedent" for you.

Nevertheless, I will repeat that the untrained person shouldn't try to put cuffs on a bad guy, as it is simply to dangerous for the untrained.
 
Uh oh. Internet knowitall gets his feelings hurt after confusing 4000 posts as the same as higher education. You gave bad advice, and I corrected it. Get over.
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You gave baseless and untrue advice and now evade the topic. Back it up without being snide as an attempt to cover it up.

PS: I will pit my education against yours any day if you like. PM me and we can compare degrees.
 
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