Handcuffs or Zip Ties?

Status
Not open for further replies.
you would have to be a complete idiot to try and cuff him!!!i mean a total dumb arse!!! Why get to within fighting distance of him??? DUMB!!! Keep back and wait for the cops. If you tell them you are holding a guy at gunpoint it wont take them long in most cases. if he gets up and walks out well thats a hell of a lot better than getting close to him and getting in a fight with him! BE SMART!!!
 
the OP:
I'd like to keep either one of these next to my guns in case I have to use them. If someone invaded my home, I'd much rather have them give up then be shot (my girlfriend doesn't want anyone dying on her carpet).
Click to expand...
Because the bad guy is ALWAYS going to comply with your commands, right? Even after you have covered him with your weapon, your girl is calling 911, and the bad guy is just going to piddle himself (or herself) and wait for you to take them into custody, right?
So what I foresee happening is you keep on giving commands to 'Lay Down!' 'Stop!' 'I will shoot you! Move to the left so you dont bleed all over the sofa!'
Seriously, are you mentally prepared (as well as one can be that is) to use deadly force? If the person poses enough of a threat that requires you to be armed, why are you hesitating? If you are NOT mentally prepared, you shouldn't even be armed, in my opinion.
 
of course there is a difference between responsible citizen and rambo wannabe.

I think everyone should be a responsible citizen, doing their civic duty.

simply letting the home invader in your home leave your home he just invaded is NOT doing your civic duty.

you must do what you Have to do. whatever it may be. if you have to shoot the invader then do it. I rather any of you shoot the invader and deal with the aftermath, rather than to feel like you "cannot" shoot the invader and then ending up on the morge slab yourself.
 
Handcuffs or zip ties?

Neither. I really dont want to get that close to the scum.

From an LE standpoint I think cuffs would be faster to deploy and could be used as a weapon themselves if needed. Maybe zip ties for transport in a wagon.
 
Shootemdown wrote:
BRAVO starcream02, thats right. For too long people think safety and criminality is someone else's problem. or its the responsibility of the police. but WE AS A Society, is responsible. I am certain there are more people and there are scum, and if we all deal with the scum properly the FIRST time, there wont be any crime. It is our duty as citizens to be sure the criminals DO NOT get away with crime.

I see. Your saying that anyone, at anytime, when they think or feel even the slightest bit threatened, is now judge, jury, and executioner?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

You see?? Care to point out where? Because I fail to see any of the things you claim shootemdown is saying in his actual post.
 
Well, I keep a set of pink fluffy handcuffs in the bedside table, but that's probably a whole 'nother post. :rolleyes:

Mike
 
If you want to see what the law is in your state, call an attorney in your area. I simply don't have the time to research all 50 states and "cite precedent" for you.
Click to expand...

Yet you have the time to sit at your computer posting in this forum?
 
Last edited:
This is where the tazer or stun gun comes in handy. Snap, crackle, pop... and its lights out for him. Usually no long term harm done. The you can easily slap the cuffs on and wait for the police. No resisting, no need to shoot him, and no fleeing.

I understand that this is a gun forum, but so far no one has mentioned continuum of force. What if you pepper spray him with one of those that have UV dye for tracking purposes. Heck, he won't be able to see well enough to flee. Be sure to use the kind that fires a stream instead of a fog since you don't want to pepper spray yourselves.

If you do kep cuffs, I would toss them to the bad guy and have him cuff himself. I certainly would not count on the wifey holding him at gun point, and I certainly would not trust her enough to not pop one in me by accident.
 
Holding BG until police arrive?

I don't get all these replys to the guy who asked if he should hold a suspect (that is actually in his home when apprehended by home owner?)?
Seems like a lot of people said, "whats wrong with just letting him get up and leave if he wants to?"
I'll tell you why, CAUSE HE MIGHT COME BACK IF HE THINKS YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING".........Or, what about this senario, "you let him go and he does something very bad", (like injures or kills another home owner when he is caught in the act). The BG needs to go to jail, period. At least he knows not to come back to your particular home in the future. He knows you are armed and will have him arrested (or worse)!
Just letting them leave with no punishment or having to answer for their unlawful entry (and putting you and your family at risk) is not acceptable, period! I know what I will do and think about it often. I hope to be ready when and if that ever happens to my family.
 
CAUSE HE MIGHT COME BACK IF HE THINKS YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING"
Click to expand...
Yeah, he is going to say to himself..."I broke into that house and was met with a pistol in my face and had to run for my life. I think I will stop in there every chance I get instead of moving on to an easier target."

...and letting him flee is not the same as letting him get away. I love the idea of telling him to throw his wallet on the ground. If he is dunb enough to do it you will have his ID. You can always claim he dropped it accidently...you cannot claim he feel into handcuffs.

Plus, as many others have said, if you have me at gunpoint and then try to cuff me I am going to fight back and so is a criminal. You just turned a "I almost lost my belongings" situation into a "I might lose my life" one really quickly.
 
Once you put someone in handcuffs, their safety becomes YOUR responsibility. This does not apply to LE, but to civilians. Means you cannot harm them, and you must prevent them from being harmed while they are cuffed.
Click to expand...


WRONG!!!!! Even when I'm on duty, the moment I handcuff a defendant (BG), he is MY RESPONSIBILITY, and I face the same criminal/civil liabilities as any other LEO OR CIVILIAN would, should something bad happen to him/her while in my custody.

But none of the possible legal ramifications are my reasoning behind NOT cuffing him, even though I do own handcuffs and are properly trained in their use. My reason is that I'm not going to subject myself to further risk and/or subject my family to further risk my placing myself in a situation where safety is compromised by getting too close to the subject.

Even with my better half being ex-military, and having the mindset and skills to cover me, her possible nervousness and "adrenaline rush" while holding a gun in her hands to cover me while I'm restraining the subject (not to mention she would now have ME and SUBJECT within the line of fire) is again....not a risk I'm willing to chance for either her, myself, or the kids.

Again, this is just my opinion on the matter. Whether you actually do cuff a subject is probably going to be more dependent on the situation. It's very easy to sit back and play Monday-Morning-Quarterback here and judge on a situation most of us have never been in and probably never will be.

All that said: As far as whether to use flex-cuffs or standard steel cuffs - I'd prefer standard chain-style cuffs. A prepped flex-cuff consists of two loops which need to be slipped over the BG's wrists, where as a standard handcuff can be applied directly against the wrist while I have a grip on his fingers and hands and lessen his chances of swinging an arm/fist at me.

Shoot well, stay safe, and stay healthy,
38SnubFan
 
I'll tell you why, CAUSE HE MIGHT COME BACK IF HE THINKS YOU AREN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING"
Click to expand...

After I point a loaded gun at you because I caught you breaking into my home, do you really think that you would come back?...because you're mad at me?

Besides...if you came back, what makes you think I wont be madder than you, and much more motivated to shot you in order to defend my family?
 
WRONG!!!!! Even when I'm on duty, the moment I handcuff a defendant (BG), he is MY RESPONSIBILITY, and I face the same criminal/civil liabilities as any other LEO OR CIVILIAN would, should something bad happen to him/her while in my custody.
Click to expand...
C'mon now, you and I both know LEO's benefit from protections against liability stemming from the standard application of their duties that civilians do not.
 
You gave baseless and untrue advice and now evade the topic. Back it up without being snide as an attempt to cover it up.
Click to expand...
Wow! Proving you have no idea what a citizen's arrest is seems to have really struck a cord. I guess it makes the rest of your legal assertions suspect to your fellow internet commando experts.

You clearly have neither law nor law enforcement training... yet you seem somehow uninhibitated from dispensing your own advice which has no basis in either legal theories or law enforcement tactical techniques.

C'mon now, you and I both know LEO's benefit from protections against liability stemming from the standard application of their duties that civilians do not.
Click to expand...
Since you are a total azshat, I won't respond to this additional stupid assertion.

My reason is that I'm not going to subject myself to further risk and/or subject my family to further risk my placing myself in a situation where safety is compromised by getting too close to the subject.
Click to expand...
Obviously, someone who KNOWS what he's talking about.

The BG needs to go to jail, period. At least he knows not to come back to your particular home in the future. He knows you are armed and will have him arrested (or worse)!
Just letting them leave with no punishment or having to answer for their unlawful entry (and putting you and your family at risk) is not acceptable, period! I know what I will do and think about it often. I hope to be ready when and if that ever happens to my family.
Click to expand...
LEO's are taught that transitioning from gunpoint to applying handcuffs is one of the most dangerous aspects of the job. You usually wait for a cover agent to keep a weapon trained at the suspect, then try to apply the cuffs to a proned suspect as quickly as possible and while minimizing your own exposure. The handcuffing agent has his weapon holstered. The handcuffing agent uses a few techniques to limit the ability of the suspect to counterattack. It's just not something that can be done properly without a decent amount of training... and even with training, it is simply a tactic that cannot be employed without significant risk.
 
Like a kid under the tree christmas morn... I read the first and second in this thread only... i will read the rest after this reply...
Here in Fla Cuffs are okay (plastic or metal) so long as said BG gets charged with a "VIOLENT FELONY" if said BG gets a misdemeanor or less than "VIOLENT" felony you have commited a felony yerself! It is called many different things depending on the DA... Here you are better off to "STOP THE THREAT" and call 911 to report a big mess on your floor! Also I will say I will never be within 6 feet of a badguy unless I am doing my best "UNLOAD THE MOSSBERG" impression!
I have taught/trained my family to help with giving orders... I will initiate with "BIT@& GET ON YER KNEES CLASP HANDS BEHIND YER HEAD CROSS YER FEET AND FACE PLANT ON THE FLOOR!!!! DO NOT UNCLASP YER HANDS..." My wife will say MF'er HE AIN'T PLAYING" My kids will say along the lines of "DADDY? YOU GONNA KILL THAT POS?" One of previous stated MOF (member of family) will initiate the 911 call... One move I am not totally entertained by will result in "peace thru superior fire power" If alone I will not use the phone... I will let the neighbors report the BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM to the operator for me! NEVER approach a violent felon and never I MEAN EVER take the POA of them to use the phone! Cuffs are for the cops... I know alot of you say "chest thumpin' redneck gorilla hogdogs is..." but some addresses really are better left alone...
Brent
 
I will stick to the "stun-gun//pepper-spray" option if he gets slightly agressive, with mi P226 in my other hand.

But honestly, if he wants to run away, I´m probably gonna let him get the hell away from me and my loved ones. I´m sure a -"Next time I will shoot you in the act!"- final statement will make him (and his friends) think twice about not only me, but also about my neigbourhood and the armed people who may live there.

For the rest, there are LEO´s.
 
Lemme find out e was released by a nearby homeowner... YOU WILL PAY FOR THE STANLEY STEEMER CREW! I assure you that my deeds will prevent yer 17 dollar per yard Berber carpet won't be soiled by the punk that entered my home!
"Oh just let the poor feller go... as long as my home is safe... fer now... I am safe..." F that with a capital "F" once free from one home they are more trained to do a better HOME INVASION next time! Clean the Gene Pool at every oppurtunity... if you won't than don't pull a weapon! Brandishing is a lower class crime than a school yard bully! If you do not fire when you pull than you are a simple chump! No excuse to pull unless you fire NONE EVER! Fear factor is for worm eating college kids! If you feel the need to draw, you are OBLIGATED to follow thru or melt yer real gun and buy "airsoft" crap! Guns are to be fired Physical strength is for those to scared to hold their grounds with lethal force and idle threats are for chicken chit sissy punks!
Would you blink? I won't!
Brent
 
OK - that was fun!

If you shoot a fleeing felon in the back - then you are a real man. Not a poultry manure minority gender orientation person. Yep, I'm convinced.

The clock and the lock are ticking as we speak. :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top