Had a near incident today

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What I find strange is that so many people accept completely that a large, dangerous looking person should find it necessary and acceptable to leave his car in this situation, go and yell at the driver whom he perceived to be a line cutter, and then, maintain an aggressive, taunting, challenging attitude, even after the first driver de-escalated the situation and promised to remedy it. He used aggressive and intimidating behavior in a totally inappropriate situation.

People like me, and apparently the OP, recognize that this is really, really, seriously screwed up behavior. and then, you open up the box of what ifs.

Do all of you skeptics really, seriously believe that there was no possibility that this person was packing, or so out of his mind that he COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAVE THOUGHT OF FURTHER ESCALATION, EVEN IN THE FACE OF CONCILIATORY ACTIONS ON THE LINE CUTTER'S PART?

This is the sort of behavior used in prisons during interactions with other killers, pimps, and rapists. Not between normal people who are part of a community of at least nominally civilized and polite people.

No matter how you guys try to minimize and sugar coat the behavior by the "big teddy bear" who had engaged in prosecutable behavior, the OP behaved correctly.

The situation scared him. He had a concealed weapon. He took necessary steps to prepare for the attack he thought may be coming, after reviewing the scenario presented to him. Then, he de-escalated the situation on his own.

All of you doubters who saw nothing in this situation but a guy who's had a rough day doing his civic duty by berating a line cutter need to just once put yourself in the cab of the van, in his mind, and re-assess the situation. Where you are sitting now, behind the keys, you have this god-like hindsight of what happened with third party knowledge of how it all turned out to be a perfectly harmless encounter.

That is not how to assess a defense situation. You'd get an F at the academy. You're responses are to be based on the information available to the target only. and he acted appropriately to the situation.


You guys would probably call my wife an idiot because she locks her doors anytime a pedestrian gets within 10 feet of the car. Every day, people encounter criminals in real life. Child molesters, killers, burglars, dope dealers, gang members, and only the grace of god prevents a dangerous situation from developing. That's why we carry firearms.
 
And, every day, people act rudely and thoughtlessly...particularly behind the wheel af a vehicle...never a thought of the other humans around them, always in a hurry because their errand is more important than anyone else's.
Cutting each other off in traffic, cutting in line at the ATM, so self absorbed it never even occurs to them that they are even doing anything wrong.
Then, some, when called on it, prepare to shoot somebody...
The OP put himself in a situation where he offended and wronged several people.
Thats a fail in my book.
Glad nobody got hurt.
This seems to be the OP's second "incident"...I have carried since before CCW existed as a gov endorsed licensed right...30yrs...I have yet to draw my piece. That does not mean there were not times I was glad to be armed.
 
Once again, excusing threatening behavior, and the wildly inappropriate actions on the part of an angry individual, with absolutely no insight whatsoever where it needed to be. In the cab of that van, where the only information was that a possible assailant had appeared for no explainable reason, and there was a concealed weapon carrier who did the right thing.

When they first installed roundabouts all over the area here and took out the 4 way stops, there was a lot of confusion. Funny thing, NOBODY took it into their heads to get out of their car and yell at other drivers because they were cut off.

This discusson is not about him accidentally line cutting and being rude. Not even relevant. It was a mistake, and it didn't merit this response. Get over it. This discussion is only about his response to a threatening situation. Whether or not to prepare for a possible attack.

Is this how you respond when someone screws up in traffic? is that why you believe that the confrontation was a simple matter of "he deserved it, because he was rude?"
 
That is not how to assess a defense situation. You'd get an F at the academy. You're responses are to be based on the information available to the target only. and he acted appropriately to the situation.
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I think a lot of us said that he acted appropriately, inasmuch as he didn't hose the guy and he verbally defused the situation. This is a case of all's well that ends well.

Having said that doesn't mean we can't also give additional commentary. I think his actions were just fine, but the way he presented the situation never made the guy sound like a deadly threat. There's a long way from "blowhard in a bank line" to "guy who tried to kill me" and it sounds like the guy didn't come close to the threshold of 'justifiable'.
 
read the original post again...

I don't see anything about a loud, yelling man angrily approaching the OP and causing a scene.

The guy said one line. besides that, an african american male stepped out of his vehicle and walked up to the OP to inform him he just cut several people. the OP had a problem with the way this man handled it. falls into the category of get over it. The OP assumed this person was very angry...really neither here nor there.

The little old lady, the middle aged mom, the 18yr old, choose another example here probably were happy that this man took it upon himself to notify the OP of what everyone else was thinking.
 
I don't think you're allowed to shoot a guy for yelling at you (or walking up to your car window) in any state in the nation...and that's all the guy did.
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You did read, right, that the OP not only didn't shoot, but he never even displayed his weapon? He merely placed the firearm where he could reach it easily if he needed it.

it was the OP who took a step to [deescalate the situation] - and it's a good thing he did because the other person did not seem to have enough self control to do so.
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Yep.

So you folks who are ready to crucify the OP, what would you have done differently? Have you never made an error behind the wheel or anywhere else? Do you think a large angry person approaching your car is no cause for concern? If so, how does this jive with the situational awareness that is preached on TFL so often? Would you have left your sidearm where it was, make it available but hidden as the OP did, or brandish it? Would you apologize and take a proper place in line, as the OP did, or leave the scene entirely, or tell off the other guy and jump the line deliberately? Are there other choices I haven't thought of? In a realistic list of possible actions, I can't see how the OP screwed up after he realized that he accidentally butted in a line.

The other guy was rude and hostile in a situation that he could have handled differently and much better. If you are going to act like that, you should hope that you get a response like that of the OP - after all, in the face of an aggressively rude person, he apologized and rectified his mistake. The only other thing OP did was go about his business armed for his own defense. Are we opposed to that?
 
In my state, when I'm inside my car, it's the same as being in my home. If that man had come to my car yellin' or shooting his mouth off I would have felt threatened, too. IIRC, MI has castle doctrine, too and if that giant had threatened me I might have ventilated him from being in fear of my life or serious bodily injury. The line in the sand would have been him yanking the door open. You see, here that is the same as illegally entering a house. You can't even be arrested.

You might be surprised at how much more civil people have become since our 'castle doctrine' went into effect.
 
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I agree with the OP. I am not going to sit there and get beaten to a pulp by someone who outweighs me by 200lbs when I did not even intend to "disrespect" them in any way. I would have tried to drive away, but failing that, if the man was acting in a threatening manner and forced open my door I would have shot him. The way I see it, it follows the same logic as an angry man forcing open the door to your house. Whether it is your home or your vehicle, he is not forcing open your door to give you a friendly hello. I would not feel good about having to shoot him, but I am not getting killed over an unintentional social slight.
 
And we have another thread in the queue asking whether I would answer the door of my home with a gun in my hand after seeing a fedex truck outside.

Of course not.

The situation at hand, being approached at an atm by a stranger, appears to be a moderate threat risk.

A ringing doorbell is way down on the risk scale, but I'll still be assessing risks, just like I do when driving. once further intelligence has been gathered, I'll either answer the door, ignore the door, and possibly kill the guy on the porch because he broke down my door.

This all starts with looking out the door, and asking yourself, "am I in danger?" Not everybody hears the same answer.
 
You did read, right, that the OP not only didn't shoot, but he never even displayed his weapon? He merely placed the firearm where he could reach it easily if he needed it.
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He grabbed the revolver and held it in his right hand out of sight even before the guy got to his window, which was, in his opinion "calm and non-confrontational". Taking this action then caused a delay in leaving (the "stare down" period) because it's not too easy to start your vehicle with a revolver in your right hand.
 
Some of the replies here made me downright nauseous.

Anybody that wouldn't have their pistol in their hand in that situation until they had extricated themselves from it deserves what they get.

The man had the chance of approaching Pezo and informing him in a civil manner that the other vehicles were a line. According to Pezo's story, he chose to do it in a threatening manner.

OKAY?

An aggressive individual approaching my vehicle for any reason is always considered a threat until proven otherwise.

Extension of your home. What's so difficult to comprehend about that for some people?

By the way Pezo, he was black. You don't know if he was american. That automatic "african american" is missplaced unless you know otherwise. That is the poison of political correctness.
 
You did read, right, that the OP not only didn't shoot, but he never even displayed his weapon? He merely placed the firearm where he could reach it easily if he needed it.
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Yes, I read that.

I also read that he referred to it as an "incident" in a firearms forum that focuses on self-defense. What, exactly defines an "incident"? To me it implies he thought he was on the verge of having to defend himself with said firearm.

I have my firearm where I can reach it easily at all times; does that mean I'm constantly having an "incident"? I don't think so.

Let me be clear on all these points:

1) The OP acted appropriately IMO. He verbally defused the situation and no shots were fire. Everybody wins.
2) It's OK to prepare for violence if you think it's coming your way. I don't fault the OP for having a gun within reach.
3) I do think it's tactically unsound to have to grab it to make it ready. That's an action that's designed to be preemptive but could turn out to be provocative if the other guy sees you doing it. Imagine a scenario where the approaching guy is walking toward the van and sees the OP with a gun in his hand, then imagine he is armed himself. I'm not certain where a verdict would fall if the approacher shot the OP and claimed "I was just going to tell him to move his van and he drew a gun on me!"
4) There's not a jury in the world that would rule 'walking aggressively' meets the threshold of justifiable homicide. This is the one area where I find fault with the whole scenario: this never rose to the level where it could be considered a self-defense scenario. It was never truly an "incident" in the strictly legal sense, even though I have little doubt that the approaching guy was purposefully trying to be physically intimidating.
5) I recognize the Disparity of Force element between the large angry man and the OP, but that's neutralized to some degree by the vehicle door between them.

If I found myself in the same situation as the OP my behavior would have been almost exactly the same with the exception that my gun would already have been in an accessible holster. And I probably would have found it quite unnerving because I just can't stand physical bullies. But I like to think that I would have solved the problem with words just like the OP did.

Don't confuse discussion with criticism. As I've said repeatedly, all's well that ends well.
 
Some of the replies here made me downright nauseous.

Anybody that wouldn't have their pistol in their hand in that situation until they had extricated themselves from it deserves what they get.


An aggressive individual approaching my vehicle for any reason is always considered a threat until proven otherwise.
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He got what he deserved-a safe and uneventful trip home.

It's hard to drive your van out of the ATM line with your pistol in your hand, isn't it?

Just out of curiosity: how many times have you had to draw your gun because someone was approaching your vehicle in an aggressive manner? Ever driven in a big city where the bums try to wash your windshield for spare change? Are you seriously advocating drawing down on them?

I hope you never have to shoot anyone, but if you do you need to pray the prosecutor doesn't find out your FiringLine screen name and print out a ream of posts like this one. I can hear it now: "Ladies and gentlemen of the Grand Jury, this man sees the entire world as a threat and was predisposed to use his gun against anyone he perceived as threatening."
 
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Going to the ATM doesn't just happen by surprise right? You decide to go to the ATM. You know ahead of time that you are going.

Isn't it prudent to don a bullet proof-proof outer jacket and a groin protecting apron before you go there?
 
You know, C0untZer0, you're being funny... but my ex-wife had some idiots try to rob her at a drive-through ATM a few years back. Boxed her in with one vehicle, approached her from a second.

Beretta Brigadier 9mm convinced both vehicles to abandon the plan.

4Runner ground clearance let her take an over-the-curb route out of the lot.

Sometimes, capabilities come in very handy.
 
SITUATION

First mistake pulling behind the other cars
you put yourself in a situation where you could not move they would have blocked you in from behind and in front by their friends good way to take out politions and political enemys
your quick observations and reaction was possibly your saving grace he senced your readiness to confront his actions whatever they may be and didnot want any part of it

pic your locations before you have to use them especailly while getting money in a out of area local comfort zone

be aware and make your own luck
 
In one of my previous post I address why I couldn't or didn't drive off. Also I have have know of an individual who chose that option and one who also chose to run away and they are both deceased now do to it. I want to start a thread comprised of real "incidents" that have occured to acquaintanc es of mine whole growing up in the detroit area.
 
Pezo, I think you handled the situation just fine. I also think you have handled the less than well considered responses here just fine. I really don't know what else you could have done in the situation. You prepared yourself for the very real possibility that the situation could have escalated out of control, and at the same time effectively de-escalated the situation. Butting into the ATM line was not an intentional act and you fixed it.
 
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